Appeal For Sex Change On Birth Certificate

[Guest gentleman1]

To all here;

I wish to have my birth certificate changed. As of yet, even though I have changed my name legally, I have yet to file for the change to be reflected on my birth certificate because I would like to do it all in one "fell swoop" when I can get the gender marker changed too. I was born in the state of Illinois. According to their laws, I must have bottom surgery. (I'm FTM for those who don't know me). I have had top surgery and been on hormone replacement therapy for almost three years. I have no intention to "de-transitioning". I do not know if I want to have bottom surgery yet due to cost and the pain I went through in getting the top surgery done. I wish to appeal and send my letters from my psychologist, surgeon, and regular doctors to this person and request a change on my birth certificate. Does anyone have any insight/advice on who I should direct my appeal? Has anything like this ever been done before in any other state? That might bolster my own case. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me. - S.

[Guest Evan_J]

I don't know I actually would love to hear the answers you get. I have heard of some people being able to swing it if they've had a hysto (dunno if that helps) though; the doctor words it something like " permanent and irreversable surgery to the reproductive organs for the purpose of gender reassignment". "Exactly" true and yet not "exactly" bottom surgery but can sound like it. Personally, I'm of the mind that you should be able to do the most minimal thing in the word to the area (nic it with a scalpel ) and have that count. Who's to say what your surgery had to include.

[Guest angie]

It all depends on the state one lives in.

If like Texas,one can,I did, then all a transman needs is top surgery with verification

of an irrevocable modification,hire a lawyer,around 500 dollars,and let him/her do the

work and all you do is show up in court and wait for the/your judges decision.

Good Luck,

Angelique

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

It all depends on the state one lives in.

If like Texas,one can,I did, then all a transman needs is top surgery with verification

of an irrevocable modification,hire a lawyer,around 500 dollars,and let him/her do the

work and all you do is show up in court and wait for the/your judges decision.

Good Luck,

Angelique

On the same note, what does it take to get the gender marker changed on my Social Security Card, is the order of name change good enough? I do envy you gals who have only one country to deal with I have 3 including the US, however Canada should be fairly straight forward and if I can get my British Birth Cert changed then I should have it.

[Guest Charlene_Leona]

To get your gender marker changed with S.S. you have to of had bottom surgery and a letter from your surgeon to indicate you have had irreversible genital surgery. Or have had your birth certificate legally changed through a court order, you take the court order in and with that you get your gender marker changed.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

To get your gender marker changed with S.S. you have to of had bottom surgery and a letter from your surgeon to indicate you have had irreversible genital surgery. Or have had your birth certificate legally changed through a court order, you take the court order in and with that you get your gender marker changed.

Boy this gets more complex all the time.. Have to get my brit birth cert changed then take that along with me, hmmmm

ok guess if thats whats needed then thats what we will do

[Guest nova]

I was born in Illinois too. There is a case still in litigation against the Illinois Dept of Public Health regarding birth certificates and changing the gender marker. (Kent v. Arnold) Although this case is about Illinois' refusal to acknowledge offshore surgery--they require "gender reassignment surgery" be "performed by a physician licensed by a state within the United States"--They are probably not going to consider any exceptions at least until this case is decided. When Mr. Arnold was appointed head the Public health department, he began to interpret these policies very narrowly, and very arbitrarily. Mr. Arnold happens to be deeply involved with (and constantly flattered by) the baptist church community in Chicago, and it makes you wonder if he's been letting his personal religious convictions improperly guide his sworn professional secular duties. If the health department prevails, my right to chose my own surgeon will be seriously curtailed, and your remedy will probably involve bringing a lawsuit against Mr. Arnold and the Illinois Department of Public Health. If the two transsexual women who brought the suit prevail, then possibly the states policies will be made fair and just for everyone.

[Guest nova]

I was born in Illinois too. There is a case still in litigation against the Illinois Dept of Public Health regarding birth certificates and changing the gender marker. (Kent v. Arnold) Although this case is about Illinois' refusal to acknowledge offshore surgery--they require "gender reassignment surgery" be "performed by a physician licensed by a state within the United States"--They are probably not going to consider any exceptions at least until this case is decided. When Mr. Arnold was appointed head the Public health department, he began to interpret these policies very narrowly, and very arbitrarily. Mr. Arnold happens to be deeply involved with (and constantly flattered by) the baptist church community in Chicago, and it makes you wonder if he's been letting his personal religious convictions improperly guide his sworn professional secular duties. If the health department prevails, my right to chose my own surgeon will be seriously curtailed, and your remedy will probably involve bringing a lawsuit against Mr. Arnold and the Illinois Department of Public Health. If the two transsexual women who brought the suit prevail, then possibly the states policies will be made fair and just for everyone.

Whoops. That's Kirk v Arnold, not Kent. Sorry.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

With S.S. I know some FTM's have managed to get it changed with top surgery only. I think there is some contention about whether it is okay to require bottom surgery given that most FTM's (pretty sure I'm correct in saying that) don't get it. For us a hysto can also sometimes suffice for "bottom surgery".

The trick with this stuff seems to be the wording of the law, as well as your surgery letters. I'm going to take my surgery letter to social security and try my luck, just as soon as my financial aid for the year is squared away.

With birth certificates it all depends on the state. Check with the "vital records" department for your home state. My home state, South Carolina, is possibly one of the least GLBT friendly states. They won't change my birth certificate, but they will...if whatever paper pusher handling my forms decides the change is "reasonable", attach an amendment card to the original. SC's wording basically sounds like it says "we'll let you have the amendment if we feel like it".

gentleman1, have you thought of contacting Lambda Legal? I don't know if it would be helpful or not.

[Guest Erica A]

To all here;

I wish to have my birth certificate changed. As of yet, even though I have changed my name legally, I have yet to file for the change to be reflected on my birth certificate because I would like to do it all in one "fell swoop" when I can get the gender marker changed too. I was born in the state of Illinois. According to their laws, I must have bottom surgery. (I'm FTM for those who don't know me). I have had top surgery and been on hormone replacement therapy for almost three years. I have no intention to "de-transitioning". I do not know if I want to have bottom surgery yet due to cost and the pain I went through in getting the top surgery done. I wish to appeal and send my letters from my psychologist, surgeon, and regular doctors to this person and request a change on my birth certificate. Does anyone have any insight/advice on who I should direct my appeal? Has anything like this ever been done before in any other state? That might bolster my own case. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give me. - S.

Hi gentlemen1,

I too was born in the State of Illinois and had both my name and gender changed on my birth certificate after my GRS. I was required to send to the Illinois Department of Health Vital Records Division the completed form that I was able to download from their web site, which consisted of an affidavit I had to complete as well as one that needed to be completed by my surgeon. I also had to submit a certified copy of my name change decree and a check for $15.00.

I don't know what the requirements are for a FTM individual, but you can go on-line to their web site and investigate the requirements. I'm pretty sure that they are the same as for a MTF, which does require "bottom surgery" to be performed by a physician licensed to practice in the U.S.

I hope this helps.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I don't know what the requirements are for a FTM individual, but you can go on-line to their web site and investigate the requirements. I'm pretty sure that they are the same as for a MTF, which does require "bottom surgery" to be performed by a physician licensed to practice in the U.S.

I think we get some leeway with what is considered "bottom surgery". Some states consider a hysterectomy "bottom surgery".

[Guest gentleman1]

That's just it everyone,

I want to be able to have my sex changed on my birth certificate WITHOUT bottom surgery because I don't know if I will EVER be able to afford it.

Without a change to my birth certificate (as far as I know) I will not be able to change my sex with Social Security, and I will NOT be able to get a passport thus I will be in essense.....a PRISONER of this frickin' country! I will not be "free to travel about the world"........not even to Canada or Mexico! This is NOT RIGHT!

It's not even like the techniques for bottom surgery are even all that great for FTMs. I feel right now that I have been through enough pain getting the top surgery done.......although it was worth it! - S.

ps. Sorry for my frustration!

[Guest AshleyRF]

There is no changing of birth certificates in my state. Mississippi ftw I suppose. On the bright side of that, the state can never contest my marriage to my wife since my birth certificate will never say "female". Bet we will be the only legally married lesbian couple in the state of Mississippi.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

on the new mexico name change forms there is a section(well one statement really) where the judge can order a change of gender as well. I dont know how much weight this carries with the feds, guess we will find out. Here is the exact line I have put the female in, on the form it is blank "5. For all legal identification purposes, Petitioner shall be identified as Female.". Hmmm interesting

[Guest Justme]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but there is a site...think it's called GLAD legal online hotline. that can tell you your stae requirements and what you need to do. They keep things pretty much up to date. Hope this helps.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I have been searching th social security site, and have found NOTHING on changing the gender marker on your card. There is lots on changing the name however. I would be curious to know what the search terms were, of if someone book marked the search string.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

OK just call the social security help line and the agent told me that to change the gender marker as well as the other information on your SSN card all it takes is the judges order of name change (as long as you can prove your GID status (carry letter should do here)).

[jessica_282]

on the new mexico name change forms there is a section(well one statement really) where the judge can order a change of gender as well. I dont know how much weight this carries with the feds, guess we will find out. Here is the exact line I have put the female in, on the form it is blank "5. For all legal identification purposes, Petitioner shall be identified as Female.". Hmmm interesting

I have had the gender marker changed with my court order name change with that clause in the order.

Thanks,

Jessica Hayden

[Guest Erica A]

OK just call the social security help line and the agent told me that to change the gender marker as well as the other information on your SSN card all it takes is the judges order of name change (as long as you can prove your GID status (carry letter should do here)).

I was able to change the gender marker with Social Security by going to my local office with a certified copy of my name change decree and my drivers license on which I had already had the gender marker changed by presenting a copy of a letter from my endo about my transition status.

When I went to the Secretary of States office to have my license gender marker changed, they ask me one question. Have you had a procedure, not if I had GRS and since I was still pre op at the time, but I did have a bi-lateral orchi done a year and half earlier, I responded that I had. I didn't lie to him because he never actually asked if I had GRS, just a "procedure" which I did.

Between the name change decree and the drivers license, I had no problem with Social Security and received my new card in the mail about 10 days later.

[Guest Isabella]

To get your gender marker changed with S.S. you have to of had bottom surgery and a letter from your surgeon to indicate you have had irreversible genital surgery. Or have had your birth certificate legally changed through a court order, you take the court order in and with that you get your gender marker changed.

I hope this is true, I can't get the gender marker changed on my birth certificate in the state I was born w/o proof of srs, & the state I currently live will not change any gener markers without proof of srs & no judge in either state will issue a court order w/o proof as well. However state laws, which govern the birth certificate issues very widely, & if what you have said is true, then that is a huge ray of hope for many of us! Best of wishes to you all, Isabella

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

I hope this is true, I can't get the gender marker changed on my birth certificate in the state I was born w/o proof of srs, & the state I currently live will not change any gener markers without proof of srs & no judge in either state will issue a court order w/o proof as well. However state laws, which govern the birth certificate issues very widely, & if what you have said is true, then that is a huge ray of hope for many of us! Best of wishes to you all, Isabella

Social Security told me to day that they would update any information needed just on the strength of a judges name change order. I called them to try and sort it out

[Guest Soph]

What scares me about being able to change your legal sex in some places and not others is that if, for example, your social security card and your birth certificate were ever looked at side by side, there would be some conflicting information. I'm just scared that some over-zealous DMV worker or whatever would make trouble, and the way it plays out in my mind, the police get involved.

But maybe I'm paranoid.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

What scares me about being able to change your legal sex in some places and not others is that if, for example, your social security card and your birth certificate were ever looked at side by side, there would be some conflicting information. I'm just scared that some over-zealous DMV worker or whatever would make trouble, and the way it plays out in my mind, the police get involved.

But maybe I'm paranoid.

My first stop after getting my name change order is the DMV, get that changed and then the ssn... and work on the other 3 tracks nearly simultaneously

[Guest Isabella]

Social Security told me to day that they would update any information needed just on the strength of a judges name change order. I called them to try and sort it out

I have already legaly changed my name on all ID's & my birth certifcate. However I marked male on my name change petition in fear being found out & barred from changing my name. I do have 2 carry letters though. Do you know if this is still possible to get my SS marker changed in spite of all this? thank you, Isabella

[Guest B.heard]

Does anyone have any information about this topic regards British red tape?

I like to know how or what you need to so to get a British Birth Cert changed I dont look my age not even close and Im forever asked for ID ID and I dont feel safe using it because I going to get pulled for either having a fake or stolen ID as the age and sex wont even look correct and the last thing I need is for that to happen so I avoid it now but I love to get sorted out.