What Is Crossdressing, Really?

October 12, 2009

Hey, Beard!

That was great!

I've never heard it quite put in those terms before!

But, it all makes perfect sense to me (A MTF!)

I'm so happy that you are comfortable here at Laura's, too!

Thanks again....

Donna Jean

October 12, 2009

Beard, (and any others near that point on the spectrum)

I think I understand completely. Back in my earlier days (teens and 20's) when I was searching for my place in the world, what you describe appeared at that time to be a fairly classic description of a cross-dresser.

Not to disparage anyone, while reading your post, I was reminded (as I often am) of a Playboy article (yes, I read the articles) about transgendered people, probably back in the late 1980's. The article tried to cover the entire definition but considering the time pretty much just covered cross-dressers and transsexuals with drag thrown in without too much variation.

But the drawing (pure charicature) accompanying the article has stayed with me for some reason. It was of a living room (looking back towards the kitchen) of a modest looking house with a family of 4 - mother slaving over the dishes post dinner, boy and girl squabbling behind the lazy-boy type chair that dad was spread out on and watching some sports event on tv, a can of beer in one hand, a cigar in the other, and he was dressed in something out of Liza Minelli's Caberet. He had a heavy 5 o'clock shadow, was fairly overweight, balding, moderate amount of dark body hair. Could have been a truck driver, a pipe fitter, something like that.

I looked at that and said to myself, um, I don't think that's what I am.

But for a long time, I only believed that cross-dressers were (very) toned downed versions of what was drawn. Which is why I still have this transsexual feeling in the back of my mind, because it seemed the sub-definitions were so limited. If I wasn't a cd, (and I knew I wasn't a tv, drag or the other possibility which shall not be mentioned), then it left ts as the only alternative.

And that's why I really appreciate it here at Laura's Playground, because the definition is large enough to include me, and I cannot tell you how it makes me feel. It gives me a grounding to explore myself from a better perspective and see if there is anything more.

Which is why I also understand there is a wide variation, and I'm trying quite hard to be understanding to all the different personal responses to these desires.

Chloë

October 12, 2009

That is a good way of putting it, BeardedMan.

I think that crossdressing can concern (at least) two different levels of gender, mainly identity and expression, and consequently there can be (at least) two different types of crossdressers.

There'd be the type for whom it's more solely a matter of gender expression, like BeardedMan and myself, and then the type for whom it's a matter of gender identity, like Mia. Mia, you self-identify as androgynous, or bigendered, or, in other words, both man and woman, yes? So for you it'd be a way of expressing a gender identity, whereas for us it's more like playing around with expression while still retaining our male gender identity.

And of course other people may have their own particular reasons, these are just broad, generalized categories.

October 14, 2009

I might seem slow in reponding to this thread but I had to ponder about it for a while. Even now I don't feel entirely happy with what I've written.

Like many of you I am very happy to access this web-site. I learn from the diverse experiences of others, who may not have identical or even similar motivations to me, but I feel can understand my CD tendencies without hostility or criticism.

Actually I’m not even sure of all my motivations. I don’t think they are erotic; some at least pre-date my puberty and, currently, are not associated with sexual arousal. Much of the time I am content with being a male, with bloke interests and doing bloke things. Admittedly they not very sporty ones; but some require a man’s strength and others a logical / analytical (male) mind.

I really like wearing women’s clothes and shoes. They are far more interesting than men’s, they feel nice, and they feel right for me.

And yet it is more than that.

There is within me, like a shadow identity, a part that is definitely female. Long ago, she envied my sister as her breasts developed and fantasised about situations where I would have to dress up and pass as a girl. I feel her as a force within, who has always pushed and continues to push the boundaries of my CD activities. Having resisted her for decades, and largely ignored her for years at a time, I really don’t know how far she wants to go. Lately, I have acknowledged her and am trying to help her find her way.

Penelope

October 14, 2009

Penelope, Honey......

It just may be time to get a good gender therapist and explore these feelings. You may have way more at hand then you think.....

Either way, it can't hurt to do some soul searching over this because it sounds as if you may have more at hand then you think or reconize right now...

It's be good for you to explore this with a GT!

Love....

Donna Jean

October 16, 2009

It just may be time to get a good gender therapist and explore these feelings. You may have way more at hand then you think.....
Either way, it can't hurt to do some soul searching over this because it sounds as if you may have more at hand then you think or reconize right now...

It's be good for you to explore this with a GT!

Love....

Donna Jean

Dear Donna Jean,

Thank you for taking time to consider my words. I guess I've lived with these feelings for so long they seems like normality. Also there are a couple of non TG issues currently affecting me and my SO that are causing unusual stress. This may have also come through in my writing. I will certainly talk to a gender therapist if I feel that my CD existence is moving towards something more radical.

Bless you,

Penelope

October 16, 2009

Hi Penelope,

On page two of this forum is a thread titled, 'Why does she come and go?'. And a number of responses touch on what you're relating. I've wondered that too, in my too many years. Sometimes it's really strong, sometimes it almost disappears. And for a number of years, I had no choice but to make it minimal. But when I'm able to, the desire is right back.

And when the desire is back and strong, it also varies in some ways of how I feel I should respond, in dress, sometimes in actions. Are Chloë and my male side the same? In many ways, but there are some differences I've found.

Though about being male and analytical, some of the best friendships I've had with women have been as co-workers in computer programming and discussing math problems. And some of my best managers in those situations have been women. (one of my co-workers when in my current marriage our first child/daughter was born, she gave us a infant pink sweater she had knitted for her. I was like 'wow'! Analytical and caring combined, what a womderful combination)

Hugs,

Chloë

October 17, 2009

Hi Penelope,

On page two of this forum is a thread titled, 'Why does she come and go?'. And a number of responses touch on what you're relating. I've wondered that too, in my too many years. Sometimes it's really strong, sometimes it almost disappears. And for a number of years, I had no choice but to make it minimal. But when I'm able to, the desire is right back.

And when the desire is back and strong, it also varies in some ways of how I feel I should respond, in dress, sometimes in actions. Are Chloë and my male side the same? In many ways, but there are some differences I've found.

Though about being male and analytical, some of the best friendships I've had with women have been as co-workers in computer programming and discussing math problems. And some of my best managers in those situations have been women. (one of my co-workers when in my current marriage our first child/daughter was born, she gave us a infant pink sweater she had knitted for her. I was like 'wow'! Analytical and caring combined, what a womderful combination)

Hugs,

Chloë

Hi Chloë,

I've just read through the thread you refer to again. We seem to be discussing the practicalities of coping with the mystery(ies) at the heart of our being.

Doing a full time job greatly reduces the time to reflect on my feelings and to experiment; probably I'm too tired as well. Now without one, there is stress, pushing me, I believe, to shift into a normally suppressed aspect. I have now recognised that being a cross dresser is an integral part of my life, not an aberration, and I mean to explore it properly. Penelope must take me where she will and I will have to manage the consequences.

For me there is a definite waxing and waning of the urge to seek the feminine and how it can be assuaged. Currently, just to keep my balance, I am in panties and a chemise every day. I also wear flatties about the house. My SO is fully aware and they have become just part of the background of normal life. Depending on the practicalities and comfort, I wear tights or hold ups under trousers a lot. I wear bras, skirts, dresses and high heeled shoes when I'm alone. My SO sometimes comes accross me doing this; she is not keen, but tolerates it.

I make sure she never sees me wearing lipstick; mine, I hasten to add. I have not (yet?)graduated into more elaborate make up, wigs or breast forms.

On vacation, just a few weeks ago, I was perfectly content to be away from all of the above for a couple of weeks.

To write this I have put on a full range of my finery to get the right feeling.

I must go now, my dear.

Big hugs,

Penelope

P. S. One of my closest ex work mates (female) is a chemistry graduate.

October 17, 2009

O.K. so what I get through this thread is the common bond of coming and going,,when it is gone it is no big deal, when it returns the need to be female is prevalent, if not dominant.

Our spouses have issues with our dressing and accepting that we are really the same person they married.

We definitely have a bond with women and an understanding of who they are better than males without our gift.

We are content to dress and enjoy the 'fineries' but feel no need for HRT or SRS, but when we are in female mode we feel

that there is nothing better in the world, than that enveloping massage of womanhood , and we surrender to that world with

totally immersed in our womanhood.

Yes!

Mia

October 18, 2009

Hi Mia,

Well, it actually sounds fairly good for me so far!

the common bond of coming and going,,when it is gone it is no big deal, when it returns the need to be female is prevalent, if not dominant.

Our spouses have issues with our dressing and accepting that we are really the same person they married.

We definitely have a bond with women and an understanding of who they are better than males without our gift.

We are content to dress and enjoy the 'fineries' but feel no need for HRT or SRS, but when we are in female mode we feel that there is nothing better in the world, than that enveloping massage of womanhood , and we surrender to that world with totally immersed in our womanhood.

I wonder though if it's a variable thing, desire, yearning, craving, whatever. For some does it get to a point that they decide that exploring HRT/SRS may be right for them? Like several here are edging towards? I wanted to say - maybe the right course, or direction, or option, but those aren't really right, are they? It's not like we're directionless or courseless or optionless, or we have to decide or choose, because we've already decided...or more accurately, there is no decision to make, because I am me.

And if me at this minute fits the above, fine, and if me fits the above but with one change - no 'immediate' need for HRT or SRS, then fine too. Or maybe desire instead of need, but that can change.

You know, I've been imagining this, oh, let's call it a line and to the right and left are the cis-gendered people (m on one side and f on the other) and in between are everyone else, but the reality might be cis-gendered to one side and everyone else strung out on the other. Or maybe some kind of multi-dimensional space where gender is but one axis out of many.

Or maybe, our definitions are totally out of whack, and we really need to discard every one and begin anew. Like I suspect physicists are beginning to realize about matter, energy, life, awareness and existence.

Uh, oh, this is getting way too metaphysical.

Chloë

October 18, 2009

My next birthday is my 53rd. And I am 8 years into official transition. I fought it for 45 years. I was always aware I was 'different'. I cross dressed from my earliest recollection. I collected and purged all through my teens and early 20s. Married in my mid 20s and had a few kids and when I questioned my gender with my wife the result was catastrophic and suddenly single. She was aware I was a CD and reluctantly accepted that ( As it doubled the wardrobe) but couldn't accept that there was a Female inside of me. I should have learnt from that but Less than a year later I was back in the saddle with a new partner and doing it all again as a form of denial. I believed I could beat it . I was wrong. Another 21 years later I am single and living alone. I had an orchiectomy 4 years ago out of a concern for the negative consequences of long term high dose exposure to HRT and Spirolactone.

ANYHOW... the reason I am posting on this thread is this , Gender & Gender Dysphoria are not a B&W thing... there is degrees of grey in the middle.... There are reasons why CDs don't progress past that point of transition. Working in a male role... Father and Husband and family expectations. In my opinion based on my own experience the biggest part of transition is self acceptance, if those near and dear to you can also accept you in the role of a woman then life is good. Sometimes you have to burn bridges and even shoot yourself in the foot to achieve long term goals or ambitions. Am I happy with my life? Not really. But I am no longer living a lie. I honestly believe I was born into the wrong body. Surgery isn't a cure for it. Maybe I am too long in the tooth now to make it all the way to surgery.... Although all through my working life I was quite well off financially I am now living on little or no money after paying living expenses and saving up for the Op is a major obstacle.

I find it annoying that post-op TS women seem to think that CDs lack commitment to complete the journey and are somehow not the real deal. Personal circumstances often stand in the way. Self harm seems like an option when it all falls apart on you.

What I have noticed from talking to a lot of CDs is they are not truly happy concealing their feminine side of their personality. It is not about sexual gratification. It is about mind gender. I Can tell you that I still enjoy dressing female and would feel cross dressed if I was wearing a suit now... BUT it is just getting dressed . It is a lot more than the clothes and the make-up and jewelery. If the truth be known every Transsexual was at one stage a CD , Some progress through it others find it comfortable and stay there , but it doesn't make them any more or less Gender Dysphoric.

Judging from over 15 years of research online and many thousands of conversations with T-Girls in that time Post -Ops seem to forget the path they took along the way.

October 18, 2009

TassieTiff

I don't know who you are but you are spot on..thanks for this POV it really help our sisters and is an affirmation of who and what we are. Thanks for contributing and welcome to "SHOW TIME" here at Laura's.

Keep Posting and stay on board..

Mia

October 19, 2009

To me cross dressing is a convenient label for a collection of behaviours; indicating some level of gender dislocation that is bound to vary between individuals.

I don’t burn with a conviction that I am generally dysphoric. I just know on the basis of nearly 50 years experience to date that I have a long term desire ( which I think can be defined as a need) to dress. It has become a lot stronger recently. I don’t know at what point on TassieTiff's ‘grey scale’ I should be because I have attenuated that need for many decades. I believe that a balance will eventually emerge by giving Penelope the freedom to develop. I note that Rachael (Australia) writes somewhere in these threads of ‘an awakening’. I have no idea whether something similar will happen to me.

If it did, I would still have to cope with the external constraints of family / SO and the practicalities of earning a living.

I alternately regard the situation as a curse and a gift. I now tend towards the latter. Whatever it is, it isn’t boring. Let’s say it is ‘interesting’ in the Chinese sense.

Hugs to you all

Penelope

October 19, 2009

I have recently spoken to some peeps online in their late 50s and early 60s who have been lifetime cross dressers... They knew if it surfaced during their marriage that the relationship would probably perish..Due to the death or loss of a partner or separation they were suddenly free to pursue something that was burning away for decades...Out of a love and respect for their long term partners they suppressed and concealed the urge. Society likes to classify all of us in two neat piles Xx and Xy and those who don't conform or fit the stereotypes are ostricised and often ridiculed and humiliated. Gays and Lesbians have gained a level of social acceptance in the last 20 years or so due to the courageous few high profile public figures who deliberately and intentionally OUTED themselves ...

We ( the rest who are in the gray area in the middle) are the most misunderstood social minority in existence. From reading this forum one thing that emerges over and over again is the fact that regardless of the label we choose to wear to describe ourselves, the majority of trans gender folks admit to a self awareness of being different long before puberty or any realisation of sexual maturity. I Admire and respect those with the courage to tackle it early. It is not easy to dismiss your primary socialisation. I have heard all sorts of argument about nature V/S nurture and how your upbringing and time in childhood can slew your gender and or sexuality....In reality we are all individuals and I feel certain that the reason we are born with mismatched physical and psychological characteristics will emerge in the not too distant future, perhaps too late for me , but eventually being trans will be tagged as genetic and not some sort of mental illness as many in the medical community still think.

In the meanwhile there will be people who can't stand up for all to see and shout it out loud that Nature Screwed Up and the Son/Daughter, Brother/Sister , Husband/Wife or Father /Mother they know and love is not necessarily in the correct packaging. How we deal with gender dysphoria will differ from person to person. Not everyone has the tenacity and belligerence or capability financially to move on past a certain level of transition.

Regardless of why people cross dress it hurts no-one, more often than not doesn't involve infedelity and if it makes you feel better about who you are it can't be a bad thing for your psychological health.

December 21, 2009

For me there are several quite unconnected activities that give me great pleasure. I too like the thrill of sailing, both inshore dinghy and big boat offshore. The hands-on feel of a wooden tiller stock in the hand and correctly adjusted sails can be really wonderful. Against this, big boats with large steering wheels are akin to driving a truck, but the principles are the same, and the thriils of bigger seas, higher speeds and ariving at strange destinations are some of the best that life has to offer.

Skiing for me nowadays is cross country. It takes the fright out of it and gets you away from lift queues & the dreaded snow-boarders. The gear is much lighter, too, and the motion is that of skating...really great exercise. To get a look at the top of the iced trifle, just one trip up to a pinnacle restaurant on the lift will do.

But competative rowing really sorts the senses out. The sense of rythm, balance, speed and teamwork/synchronisation involved in rowing a racing eight at regatta pace has to be experienced....only possible after years of dedicated training, I'm afraid. But it does mean that I can't shave my legs !

Quite removed from all these is the pleasure of even thinking about crossdressing....perhaps it's a built-in gene or something, but I have it in spades. At my age it is lovely to be able to dress up in wig, make-up and girly stuff, so I look 25 years younger than my years. I also LOVE the feel of tight and swirly femme apparel, and every aspect of planning, ordering, buying, dressing. posing for pics., editing and admiring my and other peoples' results I still find extremely erotic. Nowadays I NEED that !

April 6, 2010

Or is it so complex? Some simply find comfort in tuning in to the more fem side of the natural balance. I find it comforting, simple comfort. I am not sure if I care why but I do know why.

FYI, CD or MTF is not new to the modern world an infact it is believed that early idea of kathoey had first been explored and possibly based on the principles of yin and yang by buddhist's, known for a high tolerance of acceptance. A balance of "many things" that is believed to exist in everything, even in man is known as yin and yang. Additionaly the principles for many martail arts had been based on these same ideals. The perception by non Buddhist's that witnessed may have been that somehow a manefestation of past lives have come to show through these early kathoey creating ideological fear of some type. When something exists for this long, like martail arts, how can it be called wrong or not normal, more so in this day and age. It is, just not here : ) In Thailand and other parts of the world their are beauty pageants for FTM's.

Hope you find the answers you are looking for : ) Best wishes

April 9, 2010

"Leigh I don't think there are any cross dressers in(on?) this forum who don't feel their feminine side."
Mia, does that mean most or all men have a feminine side that most refuse to acknowledge? This question seems to dovetail into ChloeC's post.

First of all, I am really in a struggle with my sexual identity. I may be more trans than cross dresser. I do very much feel that I am in the wrong body.

Perhaps my views are too skewed to relate to the subject at hand, but I want to share, in case there may be someone as thoroughly conflicted as I am.

As a man, I have been told that I look like a total bad a**. Emotionally, I am feminine (I think). I tear up when I see road kill, it breaks my heart. I tend to do the same in tense situations and I am always mentally trying to defend my enemies (maybe they have hard things to deal with in their lives, or, maybe I just misunderstood?)

So, in my male dominated world, I put up a rough front. I feel one thing and say another. If I am not out in the world, I am dressed female. I am always disappointed with my body.

Do all men have this side to them that they hide? None that I know would ever admit to it. Brain washed by society? Absolutely. A real man does not cry. A real man takes care of business and does not allow emotion to cloud his judgement and actions. Someone once said "Just because you have desires and tendencies does not mean you must act on them." If all emotions, dreams and desires were not bent to follow the "acceptable norm", I wonder if anyone would appear as they do in todays world. If all could be "who they really are".

Janica

June 10, 2010

I'm probably an oddity here a bit. I am a female to male crossdresser. For me, well, it's as much about society as it is for me. I grew up in a very conservative environment. One where I was constantly being told, you can't do this, girls don't do that, it's not proper for you to act like this. It didn't really make sense to me, any more than being told I couldn't do something because I had brown hair would.

For me it's as much about exploring a different role in society. Not having to deal with the expectations of being a good girl.

July 1, 2010

Tried to post my thoughts but not sure if there was a glitch, the crux of the situation is, no body knows how or why or wheefore, we just enjoy it and luxuriate in that fact. The problem begins when you chose a life long mate and you sublimate that part of you that requires the dressing and then as time goes by,your urges return and your spouse is left wondering what is going on, so the best thing to do is never ever marry in haste, find a woman you love and when she knows everyting about you then ask her to marry you.

July 25, 2010

The problem with cross dressing is that you never know when you will “NEED” to X dress and you never know how much you have to dress to fulfill your needs...just panties’ or add a bra or thigh highs or heels or make up and a wig or just blow it off and go to the gym and lift or climb a mountain or kiss your wife and/or make love and be a man....

but it always always returns like a beard or chest hairs,,,,and really xdressers are not candidates for HRT or any permanent changes......it is our life and sometimes we just luxuriate in the “life” and other times nothing but our born gender mode.......

July 25, 2010

And some times you just want to sit down and grab a box of tissues and feel sorry for yourself and wonder,”Why me?" A lifetime of why me, and why do I understand women so well and feel their pain from non understanding spouses and why do I hurt and feel guilty even though my wife knows about me and accepts that aspect of me, grudgingly I admit, but still I consider myself different and I’ve talked about this a million times with a friend and she says I consider you 99% all man..so she doesn’t get it’...so who gets it..besides ourselves?

Are we destined to be a community and live together and we try to explain to all and they don’t get US?

And I’m already getting medicare and I’ll go to my grave a dresser and I guess the world (my World) will say. “So what".....they will never understand.

.

July 25, 2010

I am so much in someone else's territory here, please excuse me, Mia I think what you posted was like a priceless rare gem. There are ,I have an idea, a good many people -esp younger people - who are lost, trying to understand why they maybe are not "fitting" a bunch of other identities and really might finally find their "aha" in what you disclosed. Hug to you.

September 10, 2010

This is my first post so I am really excited to add my two cents.

Isn't it possible that all crossdressers, even the fetishists who say or think

they do it for sexual release, really have some gender dysphoria?

That is a tough question for me to answer because I have always felt

felt a "need" to dressand I can't relate to people who do it only as a

fetish. I dress so I can see myself as a woman and that fulfills a need

me. There are days (more lately than not) when I really don't feel like

a guy and on those days I want to dress as a woman all the more.

Since I am seen as a man, even though many feminine actions,etc

do pop out of me and perhaps make people wonder if I am gay (I'm not),

on the days I really wish I were a woman, I need to do something to

at least make me feel more like one. Clothing is an expression of gender

and it bothers me that men can't realty express feminine feelings by

their clothes. Societal pressure really bothers me sometimes!

September 10, 2010

I think you're probably right, Deena. I believe there is some level or degree of dysphoria for CDers, stronger in some than in others. Whether one is an occasional dresser, a partial dresser, or a fetishist, there is definitely a "need" involved.

BTW, I do want to welcome you to Laura's, and I hope you will post a more complete introduction in the aptly named Introductions Forum. There might even be some cookies and cocoa in it for you.

Carolyn Marie

September 10, 2010