Job Interview

[Guest AlexanderG]

Not sure what to call it, let's call it a job, or an internship. Learn-by-practise thing.

I have an interview this Monday. I want to go as a guy. In my application letter I only used "Alex", omitted my full names, so right now they prob. think I am a guy.

But I'll have to tell them I'm actually a physical girl sooner or later.

When, though? Not, I figure, during the first meeting. And not only when it's time to make things official, when they always look at one's passport here (too late then).

A second meeting, when things look promising? "Oh by the way, there's something you do need to know..."?

It'd be easiest if they'd ask, but grown-ups don't really do that do they?

This is complicated stuff... how to go about it?

I don't NEED this job an awful lot, so if I'm rejected because-of I'll get over it (I don't want to work for people who don't want to work with me, anyway), but still.

[Guest julia_d]

Actually legally you are under no obligation whatsoever to tell them about your trans status. Unfortunately the stupid immigration laws European states have adopted make that right pointless... It forces us out, and where I live makes us totally unemployable.

Just wing it, and remember you don't have to explain anything at all to an interviewer.

[Carolyn Marie]

Alex, When you fill out the job application, if it has a box for gender, I suggest you provide your birth gender even if you don't really

want to. Job applications are legal documents in most countries, and lying on one (and that is what you would be accused of doing)

could easily get you fired. If you have legal status as a male, then check that box.

If the application doesn't ask for it, and it doesn't come up in your interview, then you are not obligated to offer the information.

Just be careful hon.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest julia_d]

I take specific exception to the incorrect american information above.. in Europe transgender people can specify whatever gender they identify as on an employment application. WE have human rights over here, and Holland is one of the leading countries in the trans equality struggle.. Every proper (not those eastern bloc imposters) have basically the same legal rights across the board. The only time I have to produce actual proof of employment rights status (and in the process out myself) is when they finally offer the job, at which point it's the personnel department or senior management who deal with that legal requirement, not some interviewer.

I would suggest checking it out with one of the larger trades unions websites or one of the public legal advice centers. I did try looking it up, but I giuess you know your way around your countries legal rights info sites better than I do. I know for a fact I break no law whatsoever when I put "female" on an employment application .. or on anything else for that matter. In fact volunteering more than required puts the person getting the information in a very dangerous legal position.. they can inadvertently put themselves in a position of "illegal disclosure" if you live and present full time (name on tax and medical papers for instance) and they address a letter to you in the wrong way.

My scummy transphobic landlord is finding this out the hard way after continually writing to me as MR!!! .. My day in court comes, already the primary hearing has found him guilty of a hatecrime, now we stick the illegal disclosure on him as well.. mr xxxxxx .. aka miss xxxxx indeed.. busted!!

[Carolyn Marie]

Julia, I appreciate the information and the correction. Of course my experience and knowledge are only based on American law

and personnel practices, and I hadn't realized that it would vary so much by country.

I'll be better informed next time around. On this site, you truly do learn something new every day.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest AlexanderG]

Go Julia for not taking crap from your landlord!

Carolyn Marie, there's no job application form involved, I just wrote an application letter & resumee attached.

The only time I have to produce actual proof of employment rights status (and in the process out myself) is when they finally offer the job, at which point it's the personnel department or senior management who deal with that legal requirement, not some interviewer.

That would be when they copy my ID-card (i.e. passport), which is the regular thing here. But I feel it would be awkward to leave it until then. More than want the job I want to be comfortable around those people and for them to be comfortable about me.

I feel I am more or less keeping back information by not giving my full name. I guess I'll just explain whenever we come to that part of it.

I'll just see how it goes. Someone suggested they would ask me about my identity if I appear as a masculine female to them with a male name; but obviously I hope to pass as male, period.

Thanx for the responses!!!

[Guest julia_d]

That's why I said wing it.. it's up to you what you choose to disclose and when. I know that in the UK the regulations (forced by a European ruling) allow me to write anything I choose on the M/F box. It's then the badly thought out immigration law that then forces what amounts to no less than illegal disclosure. Employers are not allowed to out you, so even if they do employ you they have to in your chosen gender (name and title) and that includes any required staff id or badge or anything which may appear on payroll details or whatever. As long as you use the name and gender that is on your documents.. your current things. I guess you have already changed your name and title legally?? if not just go and do it.. it's easy.. (mine says female, as do all my tax and medical papers, it's just my stupid birth certificate.. I don't drive and have no passport). They demand a driving licence or passport or birth certificate here.... even though I can find somebody with the same name I now have and date of birth and apply for theirs for £10.. so a birth certificate isn't a legally recognised form of ID.. for that reason.. just check it out.. as I said earlier, unlike the US we have a lot of rights in Europe which are designed to make things possible, even if sometimes these rights are hard to find out about or access.

This link brings back a search result page. Have a browse.. Holland ratified most transgender rights and equalities legislation in the late 90's http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=...cf991d038399cc5

[Guest AlexanderG]

That's why I said wing it.. it's up to you what you choose to disclose and when.

Ah, ok

I guess you have already changed your name and title legally?? if not just go and do it.. it's easy..

Not here it ain't... you can't change that until you've had breasts & uterus removed. I'm about 3 years away from the former.

Thnx for the link, I'll be sure to check it out!

[Guest AlexanderG]

I'm afraid I'm gonna chicken out and go as a girl, in the end. I mean. I dunno. Maybe it's too soon to know for sure. I want it, yeah, but. What if I change my mind? The internship will be only 3-6 months, but will serve as a reference later and I'll have to doubly explain then ifI do change my mind.

Gosh I feel like I'm just messing about. Getting a binder Monday, just in time to use it, and went to the Infoday of my hopefully new school totally as guy (no idea if I passed, I guess so). But still. This is real-life stuff and what I do now may have consequences someday.

Or maybe I'm just chicken.

[Guest AlexanderG]

I went as myself. Meaning, with binder. No funny looks seen. EITHER I just simply passed as a guy, OR she figured there's a boyish girl opposite, or something. I dunno. It doesn't matter, I'm not taking the job.

It did make me realize that waering the binder makes me feel comfortable, and that I was NOT at ALL preoccupied with 'how does she see me' during the interview - which would've happened had I not worn it, most prob.

I also know for sure now that for my next job/school I DO want to be seen as a guy. So there, 'nother thing learned.