My Father Believes In Autogynephilia

[Guest DisDwarf]

I think my father has heard of and believes in autogynephilia, he seems to think that if you believe you are a female trapped in a male body then you just have some kind of fetish and you want to look like a female, not that you really are.

We haven't talked openly about this, but in case we do...--> how to change his mind???

I haven't read a lot on autogynephilia but I'm more inclined to regard it as a false, incomplete, or homophobia-driven theory, yet I want to delay final judgement until I read more about it.

And also... what do you believe about autogynephilia and the relevant discussions in parts of the medical community about updating DSM-V ?

And... just for the same of discussion, how can one discern between what they truly *are* and what they *feel* they are, and does it really make any difference?

[Guest Donna Jean]

I think my father has heard of and believes in autogynephilia, he seems to think that if you believe you are a female trapped in a male body then you just have some kind of fetish and you want to look like a female, not that you really are.

We haven't talked openly about this, but in case we do...--> how to change his mind???

Well, Honey.....the best way is to present him with the facts. Since he hasn't asked you yet, it's a good chance to get your bookwork done so you can have the facts at hand!

After all...there are a good many of us here that are female and don't want to just look like one....

And he can't make a diagnosis on you...only a trained Gender Therapist can do that!

Good luck, Hon!

HUGGS!

Donna Jean

[Guest April63]

Autogynephilia is a real thing though. It's not fake. It may not be the best way to describe you, but it still exists.

[Guest i is Sam :-)]

my belief as with most things, is that it's incredibly unlikely that everyone suffers from exactly the same problem. I'm sure some people have this condition, and may come to believe that they are TS, doesn't mean that is the case for every TS.

And yeah, if people aren't willing to review facts and change their mind, they will almost certainly never be convinced. But you could try throwing out some parallels, like "does every guy who drives a large car have a small penis?" and other stupid assumptions, that may be true for a few people but certainly couldn't rationally be argued to apply to everyone.

[Guest nova]

The innate sense of being 'trapped' inside the wrong body is what they call GID, isn't it? But autogynephilia is something else entirely, isn't it? It certainly is extremely controversial and an attempt to psychopathologize people, and GID does too. Autogynephilia hasn't been voted into the insurance billing code handbook (DSM) yet, has it? If Autogynephilia were real, then all females --not just trans-- could be stigmatized with it. Dr. Charles Moser demonstrated that. I agree with those who say these psychopathologies are relatively recent inventions--by people who who are uncomfortable with transpeople. My opinion is that whatever AG is or is trying to say about people, it doesn't belong in the DSM. And I think these kind of things are meant to justify talk therapy "cures". I don't think I'm being cynical by saying that if a therapist can persuade (I say con) a parent into believing this is a perversion, then they can frighten that parent into signing their kid up for year$ of therapy.

We have a voice, we don't have to let others hold us down and stigmatize us with their branding irons--so to speak.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Laughing (not at you but at the situation)

You wrote:

how can one discern between what they truly *are* and what they *feel* they are,

DANG (to quote a very wise woman-person) - I WANNA KNOW how to answer that!

I have worked on that for years! Still - no answer.

Some of the ideas I had:

Faith! How do you know there is a GOD? You just do! It is the only thing that makes sense (WELL - hard arguement to prove - too many non-believers and even some devout people will question the existance of GOD). Too controversial - DANG!

Exerience! How do you know the sun will come up in the morning? It just does - always has - apparently (in our lifetime) it always will. Sooooo. what we are and what we feel we are? Its just how it was, is and always will be! [Don't work so good - too many holes in the logic - dang again!]

Just is! My only good thought. How we are and how we feel "JUST IS." How does anyone describe the color blue? What does chocolate taste like? Do you and I see and taste the same thing? Is it EXACTLY the same? NO!

So my self image of what I feel I am and what I am? HEY - you can't know! You aren't me!

And throw this out to that person questioning - say a natal male. "How yould you like to wake up in the morning with a woman's face and body - and have everyone tell you that is what you are, a woman, and to go get dressed and fix your hair!" And you know you are NOT a woman, but everyone laughs when you said you are a man? How would you feel? How could you explain yourself?"

So that's my answer - we just 'know" - like you know you like strawberries - and hate pea soup (or whatever) - only you know what you truly are and how you truly feel. Sometimes it takes years to understand that!

My opinion!

Lizzy

[Guest i is Sam :-)]

A series of logical assessments will show that the probability of any specific god existing is infitesimal.

How do you know the sun will rise, well first, it doesn't, the earth rotates, second it isn't just our experience, but also observations of other stars, scientific knowledge and maths based on what the sun is made of, the chemical and nuclear reactions that take place, how hot it is, how large and how dense it is, which allow us to calculate with some precision how long it will burn for.

Just is - well i pretty much agree with that. Your personal identity pretty much just happens, you don't really actively choose it, it may be shaped by outside influences, and it can and probably will change as we get older. Your identity or belief of such is never wrong, until you try to pigeon hole yourself into someone else's definition, and while groups like that can be useful for certain things, the mistake is when we then come to believe that we must conform to the strict parameters of that group. Instead of saying, "i'm gay, i'm straight, i'm a boy, i'm a girl etc." try writing a thousand words describing yourself in detail. this is you, you can't sum it up in a single word. except possibly your name.

gosh that was all a little bit too abstract/meta for my general liking these days. but hopefully I don't sound completely crazy.

umm, so befor I finish this, let's try a more practical / literal answer

if you're unsure about who you are and are worried about making a bad choice.

The way we find these things out is by trial and error, and testing boudries. the old adage is that we learn by our mistakes and that's true.

Sherlock Holmes also said (well ok it was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle) "once you have eliminated everything that is impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth"

So how do you become sure, you experiment, and discover what doesn't work, once you eliminated every other option, you can be certain what's left is correct.

The trick here is to make sure that the mistakes we learn from are little, revesible ones such as being unconfortable in some clothes and maybe wasting some money or trying hormones for a couple of months, and not big non-undoable ones such as chopping off Mr happy.

[Guest Nigh]

I hate to say it, but autogynephilia is absolutely real- I've personally known several in my two decades of existence- one of whom had fully transitioned and completed her last surgery, eventually becoming a rather bitter individual. It seems to me that autogynephiliac's generally regret transitioning, while true transsexuals never really look back.

I'm not sure how you can change his mind though. Maybe you should just assure him that transitioning (or whatever you are wanting to do) is something that is necessary to improve your psychologically status, rather than as a sexual release. And if nothing else, just give him the important information on the subject so he can become better versed in it.

Also, I don't know how to answer your last question, so I'm going to quote Darth Vader instead. "Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!" I don't know what the 'it' is in your case, but you probably do- just look deep inside.

[Guest nova]

The majority of scholars and clinicians in our field (according to the International Journal of transgenderism) do not find autogynephilia to be a real illness. Blanchard coined the term in 1989, and simply assumed it was a male paraphilia and that it did not exist in natal females. Dr. Charles Moser, MD, Ph.D actually tested natal females using Blanchard's definition, and found that 93% of women would be classified as autogynephilic. Bailey pressed the belief that autogynephilia motivatied men to become women in order to attract men. Practically the entire trans community, including the International Journal of Transgenderism objected to Bailey's views as "pseudoscience", "transphobic hate science", and "psychology perverted". The consensus is that autogynephilia exists as merely a descriptive phenomenon. If someone experiences the erotic arousal or thoughts described by autogynephilia, they are feeling something that is completely normal and natural in all women. To label someone as perverse for it is just wrong.

[Guest AshleyRF]

Autogynephilia is real and I know millions of genetic girls who suffer from it daily.

[Guest DisDwarf]

The majority of scholars and clinicians in our field (according to the International Journal of transgenderism) do not find autogynephilia to be a real illness. Blanchard coined the term in 1989, and simply assumed it was a male paraphilia and that it did not exist in natal females. Dr. Charles Moser, MD, Ph.D actually tested natal females using Blanchard's definition, and found that 93% of women would be classified as autogynephilic. Bailey pressed the belief that autogynephilia motivatied men to become women in order to attract men. Practically the entire trans community, including the International Journal of Transgenderism objected to Bailey's views as "pseudoscience", "transphobic hate science", and "psychology perverted". The consensus is that autogynephilia exists as merely a descriptive phenomenon. If someone experiences the erotic arousal or thoughts described by autogynephilia, they are feeling something that is completely normal and natural in all women. To label someone as perverse for it is just wrong.

No one is perverse. People just want to be happy in life. If what they do/want to feel happy does not make other people unhappy, then they should be free to do as they please. And changing one's appearance is an individual human right and has no negative effects on other people at all, so everyone should be free to change their appearance in any way they see fit.

The only thing is... some changes are permanent and people should ideally feel absolutely sure that they aren't going to regret what they do to their bodies, but they should nevertheless be allowed to do what they want if they really feel a strong need for it. I think that's where the medical community can help transgender people, helping them realize whether they are likely to regret permanent body changes or not... not act as gatekeepers but as counselors who assist you in determining the best (and least regretable) ways to feel happy in life.

I also think that people who feel strong dissatisfaction with they body they were born with should have all the support they can get from insurance funds etc.

And also, I think it doesn't really help to think too much about what one really "is", but people experiencing thoughts about their gender should just think in what way they feel more comfortable and make sure in their head that they aren't going to regret any permanent changes they make (difficult... and that's why transition decisions are among the hardest decisions in life especially among those who tried very hard for decades to live in the gender role assigned to them at birth).

I searched and found this study for autogynephilia in natal females and I read it... I think it's a good study, I like it. I might show this study to my dad in case we discuss about it (for now I just let him get used to me using female pronouns when referring to me lol).

Reading some more info online about the autogynephilia theory makes me *very* suspicious of the motives behind the development of this theory. I start suspecting it may have to do with politics as well, not just medical science, or maybe only politics. I still research this theory, and really I don't want to judge until I've also read books on it, but I feel as if this theory is going to make it harder for people to transition if it gets accepted in the mainstream medical community, so I feel uneasy about it.

Also, I think along these lines: it's natural for people trapped in the wrong body to feel a strong desire to change their body (hey I feel as if someone stole my correct body parts and of course I want them back!). Maybe in some way this strong desire to get the correct body is mixed with sexuality in some way. Not that sexuality generates transsexual feelings, but that transsexuality expresses itself through sexuality in some ways because there is no other way the correct gender identity can be expressed (I mean, you live in a society where you're forced to refer to yourself with the wrong gender pronouns and wear the wrong clothing all the time etc, this creates stress so this stress needs to find some way to be expressed). Not sure if this makes sense, but it's just an idea as food for thought...

So, with this line of thinking, please allow me being very suspicious of theories like autogynephilia. I'm also afraid that some people who've read about this theory may somehow come to believe it, feeling the need to find an explanation for their "trapped in the wrong body" feelings. But I doubt it's the correct explanation. Still reading about it...