"you Need To Decide What Kinda Life You Want To Live"

[Guest Jay_son]

LOL Ashley, Your post has been one thing to make me laugh today, it's funny how you think you are alone on things and then find out (a) there is always someone worse off and ( someone in a very similar situation, that in itself makes me feel better, thank you...and as far as finding a way to deal wiv our mothers...To be honest with you, I think you have found the right, and only way - LAUGH IT OFF!!

Micha, You are probably right in what you say, and I know deep down she wouldnt want to see me harm myself, which makes it even harder in a way, she has always claimed she never wants to see me hurt, but FAILS to see how much NOT transitioning would hurt, and how much damage it would do me...I am in NO WAY considering backing down to spare her feelings, I just wish I could make her understand its not to hurt her, disappoint her or to go against her beliefs...its a need and a must

JJ, I was gonna go and see the pastor the other day, but decided against it as I was and still am wayyyy to angry, and dont see much point in me trying to talk to him while I feel the way I do towards him and his veiws, I need to go with a clear mind and in a reasonable frame of mind, which right now I am not I have the "research" he done for my Mum with me, and I intend to re read and prepare an answer for every single point he makes and tell him how it ACTUALLY is...It is like he is playing a part in turning her against the whole thing..initially she was kinda ok with it

Thanks you guys, means a lot, and its so good to have somewhere to vent and sound off about such things, Id be a bit lost at the moment without you!

[JJ]

Perhaps I'm feeling a little more confrontational but one of the most harmful things we face is the condemnation from family and friends based on biblical verses taken out of context. Sometimes someone will tell you some of the following don't apply because they are Old Testament and turn around and quote the old testament to justify their bigotry. If they read it and use it they either have to say okay we need to understand the context of the time and culture in which it was written, apply it literally to themselves or throw it out.

For Ash and Jay-son-here are a few little gems that are taken directly from the bible. When you get the "God created man and woman quote" from Mark here is another part of tat same quote. explain that in view of society today

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another,

committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her

husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery."

-- Mark 10:2-12

~~So does that mean no one in your curch is divorced and this is New Testament and do you remember the penalty for adultery was death. By stoning. Period~~And then there's :

Exodus 35:2 :

"For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death."

~~~Scary and harsh huh~~~

Leviticus 11:7-8:

7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

~Like bacon, ham hot dogs and tons of products we don't even realize~~

People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God

~Leviticus 21:17-18

The eating of fat is prohibited forever

~Leviticus 3:17

~~Now I'm in trouble~~ice cream, pie, chocolate!!~~

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple

~Luke 14:26

~There's a good on. You don't ear it quoted in church too often~

"Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." -- Leviticus 19:19

~~Uh-ooh-I tore the label off-now what do I do?~~

"Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place...." -- Ephesians 5:4

~~Foolish talk-there go the politicians, followed by all the commedians and not a few ministers~~

Just a few of dozens and dozens-I'm not belittling the bible here and I am a Christian but if you are going to take the bible literally and use it's commandments to condemn people it isn't just trans people in peril-it's everyone who wears clothes not made from blended fibers, the blind, anyone who ever ate fast food for sure and most of us who eat anything not plucked from the garden or drunk from a can. But the real killer-literally is executing anyone who does any kind of work on Sunday. That will pretty much depopulate a significant portion of the earth.

My point is that it can all be twisted and taken out of context. There is no way to justify condemning trans people -especially since the bible clearly states that the greatest commandment is to love.

In love and not in hate

JJ

[Guest Elizabeth K]

JJ - tell it on the mountain!

Ridiculous quotes from the Bible!

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

"When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an donkey and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28)

"And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

"Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

"Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

I had April - a former Laura's member and a LDS member point out that the grace and sacrifice by Jesus freed us from the laws of the Old Testement and the admonations of the old Jewish Codes. We now live in Christ and His teachings. There are STILL New Testiment Bible quotes that are oft taken out of context! Even so, cancelling out the Old Testiment as moral lesson history only, and depending on the Gospel parts of the New Testiment as a guide on how to live, is much more logical. I always focus on Jesus' messages of being non-judgemental, and His reported dealings with the people of his time and his ministry seems to validate this out 'love thy neighbor' way of living.

And I have a really serious problem with those who depend upon the interpreations of the Bible 'by others', instead of depending upon study, and the grace of GOD's guidence, to understand what is the probable intent of the instructions therein. A priest or a minister, or just a bigoted member of some hate group? Their use of the Word to promote flawed idealogy is especially odeous! My oh my!

Jesus comes back - says - "hey people - what part of love one another didn't you understand?"

Lizzy

[Guest Donna Jean]

Jesus comes back - says - "hey people - what part of love one another didn't you understand?"

Lizzy

LOL....

Go get 'em, Lizzy!

Love

Donna Jean