Ftm/mtf Differences

[Guest Sam_P]

A lot of the ladies on this site refer to their 'former selves' as somewhat of a different person. There have been poems talking to male selves, talking about 'Malename' as if that person is still there and separate...

I've never really seen the guys doing this..? I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this apparent difference I suppose.

Possible lines of reasoning my mind came up with include the fact that it's harder for the ladies to 'dress' appropriately and act as themselves until they come out and this somewhat drastic change leads to the perception of a new identity i.e. the old 'it's more acceptable for girls to dress up as boys'. Also it may just be that I've simply picked up on people who spent a long time trying to be 'Malename', creating a persona that was expected by society, and the shedding of that with the acceptance of being transgendered leaves one with the perception of it being 'other'.

It was just curious to me as I've never seen myself as anything other than myself. One, the same.

Disclaimer! I don't mean to imply that all the ladies do this or that it's a fundamental difference between FtM and MtF people. I just found it interesting and wanted to share. Also, if there are a lot of guys out there that do this who I've not noticed, wave at me and I'll shup.

[Guest Donna Jean]

This is a perfectly good observation, Sam....

And I want to say that I've also noticed it, but with the older MTF's like me...

Many of us playacted male for so many years (sometimes 1/2 century) that we feel like two totally different enities...

And like you said...we MTF couldn't wear any feminine things because of the constructs of society...

No one looks twice at a female bodied person wearing jeans and a T shirt...but, the other way? A male bodied person wearing anything considered feminine.......NOPE!

So, yeah...some of us do tend to look at two different people....

And all we want to do is get rid of one of them......

Donna Jean

[Flint]

Similar post here

Great minds think alike eh?

[Guest lvmyftm]

I have noticed the same thing as well. I think there is a less drastic change for FTM's than for MTF's. The reason for that, I think, is that it is more socially acceptable for girls to act and dress more masculine than it is for boys to act and dress feminine. Society makes it rather clear early on that to be male and masculine is a good thing and to be female and feminine is to be lesser than. Hence phrases like "play/throw like a girl" often used to make fun of little boys and get them to act the "right" gender. Being called a girl or something along those lines seems to be the worst insult for a cis male to hear. On the other hand being a tomboy or a "jock" isn't seen as a bad thing for a female born child. And then there is the social stigma that differs for FTM's and MTF's. FTM's transition can often be seen as an "upgrade" in our society that gives males privildge, wereas MTF's transition is a "downgrade" in social status or seen as being sexual motivated. Not that either transition for those reasons, but it makes sense that MTF's would be inclined to hide their true selves more than FTM's. I think its more of a survial thing for them, to not get made fun of or beat up for being feminine. If that makes any sense....too many women's/gender studies classes here.

[Guest Sam_P]

Similar post here

Great minds think alike eh?

I managed to miss that one! *reads through*

Great minds indeed.

No one looks twice at a female bodied person wearing jeans and a T shirt...but, the other way? A male bodied person wearing anything considered feminine.......NOPE!

It's hugely unfair that society puts that pressure on perceived-male people isn't it. It reinforces that little bit extra to people trying to understand why they feel this way that they're 'wrong'. Anyone else feel like a quick round of knocking people's heads together?

[Guest Donna Jean]

A male friend of mine that I came out to, was incredulous, not at telling him that I was transitioning...

But at my total lack of wanting to keep the male "advantage" ...those things that are a "given" for the male gender..(sometimes called "male privilege)...

"You wanna give all that up?"

Dang, dude....you just don't get it, do you?

Donna Jean

[Guest Emily Ray]

I must have been absent the day they handed out the "Male Privlige" cards. Rarely if ever have I noticed any kind of a difference. In fact with afirmative action Grants and other such subsidies are now going to the women and I always felt like the "Privlige" that being a white male of middle class upbringing has largely evaporated and in some respects it has become a burden. Just mho.

Huggs

Emily

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Interesting observation Sam.

I would say that I think it all depends upon the individual, not the gender.

Of course who I fundamentally am and how I see myself has never changed, but how I have been percieved by others certainly has.

Having a long history of playing a "male" role in society, I cannot ignore or discount that history.

It is part of who I am.

Brenda

[Guest NatashaJade]

"You wanna give all that up?"

Um...yup! Is there a charity I can give it up to? If there are some guys out there who need extra, I think I still have some male privilege to spare. It's all theirs for the taking.

luv

Gin

[Guest sarah f]

Male privilege, I don't think so. I find it to be a dis-advantage. They expect you to be able to do things that you don't want to do or can't do. I found being a male is a burden that I can't wait to get rid of. I can't stand it anymore and want to be treated like a lady. That is just me talking and others may disagree.

[Guest Opal]

In my father's day, a young adult male dressing as a female was largely considered someone who was avoiding the draft (World War II and afterwards) and was looked down upon. Many places actually had local laws against crossdressing .

I am thankful that we do not live under those conditions any more, but there is still room for improvement.

[Guest Donna Jean]

I must have been absent the day they handed out the "Male Privlige" cards. Rarely if ever have I noticed any kind of a difference.

Huggs

Emily

Emily, Honey.....

The invisible "Glass Ceiling" is a barrier that has prevented women from reaching certain levels that males reach...

Women's wages at this time are only equal to 76% of male wages...

It's only recently that women have been allowed to serve in certain roles in the armed services...

Recent firsts include Supreme Court justices, Secretary of state, presidential candidates...

Women have never been allowed these things before...strictly reserved for men...

Until not too long ago, only males could vote, be doctors (Both of my doctors are women), police, and scads of other jobs....

That sounds like males have been pretty privileged to me.....

Donna Jean

[JJ]

Um...yup! Is there a charity I can give it up to? If there are some guys out there who need extra, I think I still have some male privilege to spare. It's all theirs for the taking.

luv

Gin

I'll take it! I'll take it!! Where can I pick it up??

Jj

[Guest sarah f]

JJ do you want second to that? I will give you mine too.

[Guest Natalie92]

To be honest, I do consider the male I tried to be a different person. I've contemplated getting a tattoo of a shield with a banner containing my male name below it.

Natalie

[JJ]

In our society studies have shown that Dr.s take men more seriously. Many women don't get treated for conditions for years that men are quickly diagnosed for. Because the majority of Drs are still male.And still believe women are more emotional and hysterical tan men. Not to be taken as seriously. It is proven fact sadly.

If a woman is strong and logical and speaks her mind she is a pregnant dog.

If a man does those same things he is admirable.

In most fields women still have to be stronger, better smarter to do the same job a man does for less pay.

The laws are largely made by men and enforced by men. Even the education of our children is largely dominated by men-look at school boards, school superintendents.

When I applied for jobs the question of child care always came up-how many men were questioned about the personal arrangements within their family?

How many dumb blond jokes do you know about men? Bad driving jokes? Gossip jokes?

It still pervades society but has gotten better. at least now it is not the norm for the man to control the finances-and too often everything else-putting the little wife on a budget and giving her a list of chores to do each day. Watchh "I Love Lucy" closely. It reflected societal norms when I was growing up.

Feeling like I had a man's mind made all those tings so frustrating, so enraging at times! No wonder I am a male feminist!

JJ

[Guest Donna Jean]

Feeling like I had a man's mind made all those tings so frustrating, so enraging at times! No wonder I am a male feminist!

JJ, Hon, you're my hero!

Thanks for backing up what I said....

Donna Jean

[JJ]

JJ do you want second to that? I will give you mine too.

I'll take all the male privilege I can get-but wait --I guess it goes against all my male feminist convictions.

Shucks!

JJ

[Guest Donna Jean]

I'll take all the male privilege I can get-but wait --I guess it goes against all my male feminist convictions.

Shucks!

JJ

Geez, JJ.......

You're sounding kinda conflicted......

Sorta like watching your mother-in-law go over a cliff in your new Buick!

Sorry!

Donna Jean

[Guest Lady.Violette]

A male friend of mine that I came out to, was incredulous, not at telling him that I was transitioning...

But at my total lack of wanting to keep the male "advantage" ...those things that are a "given" for the male gender..(sometimes called "male privilege)...

"You wanna give all that up?"

Dang, dude....you just don't get it, do you?

Donna Jean

Thats one of the reasons I haven't told any of my male friends yet. The only males I have told are my two brothers, that took the news pretty badly, and my cousin, who got super weirded out and firmly believes that I'm just confused and need to have sex with a woman to change my mind.... /sigh

So I don't think I'm telling any more guys.

[JJ]

Geez, JJ.......

You're sounding kinda conflicted......

Sorta like watching your mother-in-law go over a cliff in your new Buick!

Sorry!

Donna Jean

I thought I had to be conflicted to be trans! Oh nevermind-that was confused I HAD to be. Conflicted is just a little side bonus

Love

JJ

[Guest Hello Katie]

I'm so glad that you brought this up Sam! This very issue is what inspired me to seek out community and connection with other trans people… this is THE question that brings me to Laura’s Playground.

I'd never really given much thought to the habit until recently... but, yeah, I guess I sort of disassociate myself from my past, not just in social situations where I tend to not want to talk about my ex-wife or my military career, or my first girlfriend, or whatever... it feels kind of insidious the way I've internalized this disassociation. I mean, I don't like to think about my life pre-transition. When I'm around others and they start talking about their childhood or their early adult years, I sort of clam up, withdraw, listening from the sidelines but never actually jumping in and participating. I imagine some people who know me (but don't know about my trans history) must just assume that I'm cool or aloof or shut down in some way. And I guess that I am. But I don't want to be.

I especially don't want to be shut down with my current spouse... and I do get that way. When she talks about her past, her youth and young adulthood, I feel myself clench up inside... walls go up and I feel this emotional barrier go up that leaves me feeling like I don't want to hear about where she's been, what she's done, who she did it with, etc. And yet, intellectually, I feel the off-ness of that reaction. I mean, she's 11 years older than I am, she's in her mid-50's... she's lived some life... she's raised a daughter... she came of age in the wild 70's... of course she has stories to tell... to be honest, I'm extremely grateful that she's had joy and adventure and companionship and experience in her life. How messed up would she be today if she'd been isolated and lonely all her life before meeting me? And yet, this reaction comes up when she talks about her past... and I'm beginning to feel that this negative emotional response is intimately tied-in with my own disassociation with my past as a woman trying so hard to pass herself off as a man... it was painful, and I wasn't very good at it so I was violently rejected by many... I suffered and struggled and tried so hard to conform... and when I finally stopped fighting off the inevitable and made my transition... I broke off, as much as I could over the course of time, all association with that unhappy, tortured soul I use to be.

And finally, today, 12 years transitioned and living a wildly joy-filled, mostly stealth life... I find myself questioning whether I haven't done myself a terrible disservice by disassociation from that person I tried so hard to be for so long....

And I really appreciate you for bringing this up Sam.

Kisses!

Katie

[Guest Sam_P]

Feeling like I had a man's mind made all those tings so frustrating, so enraging at times! No wonder I am a male feminist!

I've noticed that a lot of FtMs can say this. It makes you wonder whether all men should have a short while being perceived as female to show them how not to propagate such discrimination!

[JJ]

I've noticed that a lot of FtMs can say this. It makes you wonder whether all men should have a short while being perceived as female to show them how not to propagate such discrimination!

If only there was a way-like those life skills classes in school.

You know the odd thing is I also believe many women would be happy to go back to child rearing and home-making full time IF all of the choices were still open and equal.

We each should fulfill the place in society that our natures and evolution have suited us to fill. And each of knows how strong those drives can be when it comes to gender roles and identity. Some are cultural and don't cause internal conflicts but others seem to be hardwired into our brains. I think many women seek affirmation in the workplace because there is no affirmation now in being a homemaker. Which is sad and is creating a lot of inner conflict too

Now I really sound confused-a male feminist who believes a woman's place is in the home-as long as it's her choice and other opportunities are equally granted to her.

JJ

[Guest Sam_P]

If only there was a way-like those life skills classes in school.

I have a feeling there might be a lot better understanding of trans people if that were to happen too!!