Hormones - There And Back Again.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

Lizzy,

First of all, I don't feel invalidated or angered by everything you're saying, but it seems like you're drawing on your own experience and definitions of male/female and applying it to everyone on feminizing HRT. It's okay to think HRT is a bad idea for non-transitioning people, but your reasoning really bothers me.

HRT as a tool for treatment of gender dysphoria is a reversal of what is naturally occuring. HRT is NOT for adding estrogen, it is adding estrogen and retarding testosterone with testosterone blockers. So all HRT is basically doing is changing a 'male' chemistry into a 'female' chemistry. What does that do? It makes you FEMALE.

So can you just go halfway?

Attributing body-chemistry alone to making someone male or female doesn't make sense to me. Yes, it changes our bodies. Yes, it affects our brains. But it doesn't change our clothes. It doesn't do our makeup. It doesn't pierce our ears. It doesn't do our hair. It doesn't change how we walk or move our arms around. There are so many gender markers that HRT has no effect on.

And your mind changes, does this reverse? Not enough research to know.

I still don't really understand what you call "mindset" and "mind changes". From what I've gathered, you imply you had a "male" brain before but HRT changed it to a "female" one. But what does that even mean? I'm sure your emotional responses changed. But men can cry watching a movie and still be men, while women can be cold-blooded murderers without regret and still be women.

Has your sense of identity changed? Do you mean something inside you used to say male but now says female? If that were the case, why would you begin HRT in the first place? And why wouldn't HRT change the minds of cross-dressers and androgynes, thus transforming them into transitioning women?

What about your mind has changed!? And I'm sorry I don't know more about your story, but supposing you began making a social transition around the same time you started HRT, how can you know your mind changes don't just come from changing your life?

I've been on feminizing HRT for 9 months. It's easier to cry and I worry a little more about the sorrows of those around me. But in no way does that make me more "female" than I ever was.

And I say your libido CHANGES - not that it goes away. You are changed into having a woman's chemistry - eventually giving you a female libido. THAT hapened to me. I have NO male function - and yet men suddenly seen very interesting! When did that happen- about a year and a half after starting.

That is by no means an expected outcome. Feminizing HRT obviously decreases your libido, but its effects on your specific sexual preferences can't be predicted. Human sexuality is complex, and many things could be attributed to you now being interested in men (again, your lifestyle changes). Even if HRT does play a role in that, it won't necessarily do that to everyone.

Again, 9 months of HRT here. My libido dropped dramatically the first month of HRT, but has stayed consistent ever since, and is still quite high. I still pleasure myself at least once a day and often more. And my fantasies have not changed one bit.

Even if HRT were guaranteed to change your libido, I understand why that would deter people who want it for purely sexual reasons, but what about androgynes or anyone else who desires a different body for non-sexual reasons?

Fictional conversation with doctor:

"I want to grow boobs."

"Okay. I have something for that, but you may start being attracted to boys."

"Okay, but I still want boobs."

Twenty two months on HRT. I am NOT male anymore. I am certainly not androgynous. I cannot PASS as male anymore. It seems to me there is a certain urban legend a person CAN get on hormones and achieve certain results and not others.

I agree you can't control the effects but, again, just because you can't pass doesn't mean that will be the case for everyone. It would be AMAZING if it were. While you can't pass as male, others on HRT may never pass as anything BUT male.

I'm still seen as male. I'd have to try pretty hard to look female. I imagine if, in a year from now, I don't permanently remove my facial hair, I don't shave my legs, I don't shape my eyebrows, and I keep getting my haircut the same way, I'll still be pegged as male every time! Breasts and a big butt won't do it alone. Most people on HRT still have to make an effort to be female.

Honestly, if in a year from now, I am so female-looking that I can't go out as a male, then it'd be a dream come true. I look at it this way: my goal isn't to become a woman, it's to look more like a woman. If it goes so far that I start living life as one, well then horray! But if I don't quite get there, I still achieved my goal. I still look MORE like a woman already, whether or not I could pass as one. It's the same as making money. People are happy making money, but not everyone sets out to be rich.

In a way, saying only MTFs who plan to transition should be on HRT is like saying only people who intend on being rich should invest in the stock market.

I agree there are many wrong reasons to be on feminizing HRT, but planning to transition isn't the only right reason. It's fine if you think that, but I just don't follow your reasoning.

[Guest Orva26]

Honestly, if in a year from now, I am so female-looking that I can't go out as a male, then it'd be a dream come true. I look at it this way: my goal isn't to become a woman, it's to look more like a woman. If it goes so far that I start living life as one, well then horray! But if I don't quite get there, I still achieved my goal. I still look MORE like a woman already, whether or not I could pass as one

A whole lot of your post jive with me. So does this. I think I need to keep a similar mindset. I know I want to get on HRT so I should just try for that and see where it takes me. Obviously if I start it out and I don't like it I should stop but if I do like it, as I think I will, I should keep going. Then if I reach a point where a social transition becomes viable/needed I'll go for it, but I am not going to obsess over making every minute detail of my existence as feminine as possible.

Fictional conversation with doctor:

"I want to grow boobs."

"Okay. I have something for that, but you may start being attracted to boys."

"Okay, but I still want boobs."

Vastly simplified but this is kind of me.

[Guest Hydraxide]

I wonder...

Suppose a male was to take a low level dose of an anti-androgen only. Not enough to bottom out the testosterone and cause the long term skeletal upset and other issues but enough to tone down the overt male attributes; reduction of libido a bit, slower hair growth, maybe some feminizing effects over the longer term etc.

Just putting it out there.

[Guest Jo-I-Dunno]

I wonder...

Suppose a male was to take a low level dose of an anti-androgen only. Not enough to bottom out the testosterone and cause the long term skeletal upset and other issues but enough to tone down the overt male attributes; reduction of libido a bit, slower hair growth, maybe some feminizing effects over the longer term etc.

Just putting it out there.

Hmm, good suggestion. All males have varying testosterone levels, and I imagine that correlates with physical "manliness". For example, I can't imagine someone like Orlando Bloom has the highest testosterone levels...

I remember my first blood tests when starting HRT had surprisingly low levels of testosterone (actually, after one month of HRT, my testosterone levels were HIGHER). And I generally considered myself a moderately pretty boy even before HRT.

But regular feminizing HRT takes a really long time; something like you're suggesting would take even longer. And spiro, for example, is not generally a very healthy thing. Taking it for the possibility of being vaguely prettier isn't something most doctors would allow.

And, as usual, I say the odds of growing huge unhideable boobs so quickly that you end up with something you don't want is pretty far-fetched. If you're willing to change your wardrobe around a little, it's practically a non-issue. But I am, as everyone is, skewed by personal experience. I've been on HRT for a year now. I still use a men's public shower no problem. But I'm still growing. I'm thinking this Summer I'll be wearing a wet suit when swimming, mostly because of my nipples though, not my vaguely protruding mounds of fat I might call boobs one day.