What If?

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I have been on Laura's Playground a few years, a moderator longer than not. But one thing has always bothered me?

WHERE DO THE PEOPLE DISAPPEAR TO?

We must look at 5 to 6 new members a day - some days much greater than that. We welcome three or four a day maybe, the ones that are brave enough to post.

Not many get past that first post. Some get up to 20-30 posts maybe.

BUT

So many disappear before you really get to know them.

..................

OH MY WHAT IF...

and it may be totally wrong...

I am MTF and this is my take on the disappearing transsexual people...

What if they see how hard it is to be transsexual and retreat back into their former selves?

And if advanced, what if they decide to de-transition

What if they are just too frightened or otherwise unable to be their true selves, so they decide to please everyone again, and just suffer.

.........................

There were statistics I found when I first came on Laura's where only 30% of the transsexual population is ever diagnosed. Only 20% of those ever fully transition (which doesn't necessarily mean surgery).

OH MY - that would be such a tragic thing - people coming here to Laura's - looking at all our stories, reading all the advice - then retreating back out.. terrified!

Am I wrong? Is that what happens?

Lizzy

[Guest Confusedaboutmyfeelings]

I dont know where I fit on the whole TG scale but I do know when I first came here I had alot of ideas running through my head, then you start reading the reality of things and others peoples personal stories and yes for some (as myself) it does tend to make you second guess yourself or scare you a bit. I am kind of in the category of posts you are talking about and now I don't post as often or come on here as often on purpose as I dont want any influences either positive or negative (and LP is positive dont get me wrong) while I figure things out. I think I have seen a few posts say things similar when they reappear after a bit of time. Others may just think maybe they were wrong or that transitioning isnt worth it for them.

There probably is not much you can do about that. It really depends on the person. Some people are ready to deal with it others are not. And many people are helped by the same posts which may scare others. But those posts are the reality of the situation so sometimes so it needs to be said.

[Guest Donna Jean]

.

I really don't know, Lizzy......

Also as a Mod I've seen this phenomena happen....

I'm sure that some join just to have access and then see that there is no sex and drift away....

Some probably get caught up in life.....

And, I'm sure that plenty get frightened by the entire thing and resume where they're at in life, only to have the dysphoria come back stronger later as we all know it does...

We certainly know what it's like to try to deal with our Transsexualism long term without any help...

And de-transition? We've seen some of that here, too....that scares the hell out of me and is beyond my comprehension...

It's like you say...only 30 out of 100 of us are ever diagnosed....

And only 6 of those will transition.....

And maybe 1 or 2 of those will make it through SRS.....

Sad.....

Donna Jean

[Guest John Chiv]

Lizzy,

Very thought-provoking discussion. I enjoyed reading the responses. One factor I would like to elaborate on is something Dee Jay addressed; life. We may not be scaring people off but they may know people in real life that may influence them in that direction.

In another thread, I wrote about transition not being a panacea. So when someone seeks out this site, where they are in life in general will influence what forums and discussions they are drawn to and what they read. Transition will not fix everything else in your life that you are not dealing with.

I looked at a few other sites before Laura's and didn't join any others except Chaz's site. That is a good site and I support it by staying registered but am not active there anymore because all I need is here at Laura's. When I was briefly active on that site, it was a time in my life I only wanted to focus on FTM information.

Since I joined Laura's, this is the only place I am and where I am active because despite the struggles and realties, Laura's is positive. We all have written so often about what draws us here. The people, the staff, the environment which is unique.

Even the posts that are "real" I think are positive because people read them and see someone else or a situation they can relate to and then they often see that person work through, and make it.

When we moved to a new host, I lost only one post. I titled it, "Behind every post is a story you may never know unless someone choses to share it". I still have the post saved but not the responses. If you are someone reading this thread; I hope you stick around to find the story that the sneak preview does not tell in full.

John

[Guest d w]

I've come and gone on a few forum's and with me, it has more to do with what Donna Jean pointed out- getting caught up in life. I'd like to spend more time doing lots of things, but between work, family, and other obligations, I just don't have the time.

[Guest Karen K]

My dear Elizabeth,

I have been sitting comtemplating what to post as a comment or response. I can only think to thank all who post their experiences here, good or bad, I gain stength and insight in reading both. I can not comment as to why some stay and some fade away. I am on another forum, not as well attended as LP, but I checked the membership 1078, at last count, and only 45 active members. That is disappointing, but more than that it is fustrating when a post is made and no one responds to it, which does not happen here, as far as I can tell.

Here, I often wonder why, when someone finds the courage to come forth, as on LP, registers and may make several posts, but doesn't fill out their profile page. This is fustrating because, I often want to know a little something about the member whose post I am about to reply to or maybe they replied to one of mine. But, I do understand those that come here, anonymously, just to gain intel/knowlege.

I can not fathom why some disappear after seemingly made great strides toward transition, perhaps it is as John describe: outside influences, relatives, friends, and neighbors, can put an awful lot of pressure, especially if they are united in their beliefs, on an already questioning soul. I have thought about my own situation, how easy it would be to revert to my male self and try once more to ignore the female within. After all, I had given up on transitioning three times before. What's interesting though, is that I came back to transitioning, now four times. This time though, I will see if it is really for me. This time I am on HRT and this time I will go to the RLT, this is the only way to know for sure. As of this writing, I am convinced I am on the right path.

Thank you for a thought provoking thread.

Laura Jane

[Guest jay_r]

I'm going to agree with dw and Donna on this one. Getting caught up in life.

Also, I was blocked from this site for a long while through parental controls. Consider that for the younger users?

[Guest Michaele]

My opinion is people are drawn here by a need to associate with like minded individuals whether they be MtF or FtM. After getting the guts to make that first post they sit back and catch up on 2 or 3 years of reading back forum postings. Some of these posts strike a cord with the individual and they can relax and know they're in the company of caring understanding travelers on a similar path.

Why don't some come back and continue to post? Maybe the idea of transition scares them back to the old life. Maybe they feel they have no ideas that haven't already been expressed by others on the forums. It could well be outside pressures, family obligations, work enviornment, or a multitude of other influances. Lizzy you pointed out only approximately 30% are diagnosed as TG, Dee Jays 6% will transition and my GT gave me a depressing statistic of 1% of the diagnosed actually succeed in transition. Now that's a scary failure rate.

I came back to post and repost because I find talking on the forums is a great form of therapy. Heck the help I get from the guys and girls that are the most prolific posters, I couldn't put a price on. What's better than free GT. On the other hand I do enjoy my chats with the PHD GT and wouldn't trade him for the world. Excuse me for sounding like a commercial for LP but I grew up an only kid and coming here has introduced me to hundreds of brothers and sisters, kindred spirits and I feel I'm a better person not to mention better balanced individual for having met all of you.

Love you all

Shelley

[Guest Shari]

There is always so much to consider here. I wll try and come at it from a different perspective and add my opinion.

I think many people are longing for socialization and acceptance. They need our attention and validation. Since they may not be able to freely express themselves in the physical world, they do it here without fear of discovery. I also attended other sites from time to time and was not really acknowledged.

Shortly after joining this forum, a moderator sent me a private message, inquiring about me. About ME! That did it for me I'm hooked.

Many people have isolated themselves as a form of protection. They have lived with very private and secret thoughts questioning their place in society. They feel alone and misunderstood. Reading stories about people who have it all figured out can further add to their anxieties about acceptance. Of course if they stay long enough they'll learn that we all have many of the same problems and are taking it a day at a time.

Shari

[Carolyn Marie]

I honestly believe that there are a thousand different reasons that people leave. I doubt if the majority are simply scared off. People who leave quickly are probably more likely to have joined just to learn and see what it was all about, and then decided it was not for them. We will never know for sure.

Sometimes, it is what it is. No rhyme, no reason, no explanation.

Just gone.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest kelise]

Maybe it's in the cookies and cocoa??

There were statistics I found when I first came on Laura's where only 30% of the transsexual population is ever diagnosed.

If 70% of the transsexual population is never diagnosed, where does the statistic come form? How do we know they exist?

[Guest Donna Jean]

If 70% of the transsexual population is never diagnosed, where does the statistic come form? How do we know they exist?

Extrapolation?

Dee Jay

[Guest Mia J]

It could be a lot of reasons. For one thing I think this is normal for most forums no matter what the subject. I have managed a couple of forums in the past and have found that there are always a lot more members then there are active posters. It is hard to tell how many of the others just want to lurk and read or how many do not check the forum often.

I try to check in as often as I can but there are a lot of times that life takes over and I just don't have the chance. There are a lot of times I will read the messages but just don't feel I have anything to respond that has not already been said. I also sometimes have a hard time writing things down to express what I am thinking. Which is really odd because I am a Docent and can make exultant oral presentations.

I am sure there are some who come here and then get scared off from their transition from some of the posts. I think that is probably ok because they are just not ready for that step yet. But, I am sure there are far more who come and find a place to be among friends who share so much. Maybe somebody could set up some type of survey to see what others here feel?

I did not know that the stats on those who transition were so low. That is sad. Transition is different for all of us and those starting out should look at some of the wonderful success stories we have here. It can be done.

Mia

[Sally]

I prefer to not look at the numbers - too many places in this world where people are replaced by numbers.

I believe that a certain number come to ask questions, get their answers and leave, some come to be told whether they should transition or not - we do not tell them that so they leave, others actually try to transition and fail so they leave, then some transition and move on - some of us get stuck somewhere along the way and have nowhere else to go.

Being trans is not easy - it may get easier but not enough to make a real difference, it requires a great resolve - some people call it courage but I know that it is more determination than anything else.

I cannot tell you how many non diagnosed trans there are in the world - no one really can - we will never know - I am one who is struggling to maintain some sort of momentum in my transition but the odds seem to be stacked against us - that is why I stay - I need the support.

I offer support to all that I can.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Mina89]

I don't know how to explain the disappearing members, but regrettably I am a stats geek and I feel I have to point out that any numerical figure applied to the transgender population (and any sub-population thereof) are pure conjecture.

We are largely invisible, and nothing can really find us out pre-transition unless we want someone to know. Thus, all we have is self-identification among a population whose identity is stigmatized.

All this translates to highly contested and nigh-on-useless numbers.

/nerd rage

-Valerie

[Guest Maria_B]

Sometimes Time Zones make it too much effort to post, and wait a whole day before you even read responses.

Really slowed down my posting.

Then all the other points mentioned in the thread are also very valid.

Ya just get busy sometimes.

[Guest Michaele]

Maria,

You're a day ahead of us usually, so your posts should get here yesterday. LOL

Big Hugs

Shelley

[Guest kelise]

Maria,

You're a day ahead of us usually, so your posts should get here yesterday. LOL

Big Hugs

Shelley

Maria, send me tomorrows lottery numbers. I'll split it with you!

[Guest Elizabeth K]

My dear Elizabeth,

I have been sitting comtemplating what to post as a comment or response. I can only think to thank all who post their experiences here, good or bad, I gain stength and insight in reading both. I can not comment as to why some stay and some fade away. I am on another forum, not as well attended as LP, but I checked the membership 1078, at last count, and only 45 active members. That is disappointing, but more than that it is fustrating when a post is made and no one responds to it, which does not happen here, as far as I can tell.

Here, I often wonder why, when someone finds the courage to come forth, as on LP, registers and may make several posts, but doesn't fill out their profile page. This is fustrating because, I often want to know a little something about the member whose post I am about to reply to or maybe they replied to one of mine. But, I do understand those that come here, anonymously, just to gain intel/knowlege.

I can not fathom why some disappear after seemingly made great strides toward transition, perhaps it is as John describe: outside influences, relatives, friends, and neighbors, can put an awful lot of pressure, especially if they are united in their beliefs, on an already questioning soul. I have thought about my own situation, how easy it would be to revert to my male self and try once more to ignore the female within. After all, I had given up on transitioning three times before. What's interesting though, is that I came back to transitioning, now four times. This time though, I will see if it is really for me. This time I am on HRT and this time I will go to the RLT, this is the only way to know for sure. As of this writing, I am convinced I am on the right path.

Thank you for a thought provoking thread.

Laura Jane

Well said - I agree almost entirely with this analysis. My wish is you truly discover what is in your heart this time. I was age 61 when I did that, but never too late.

Lizzy

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Maybe it's in the cookies and cocoa??

If 70% of the transsexual population is never diagnosed, where does the statistic come form? How do we know they exist?

We read it in the literature and blindly accept it?

They later write in and say, "What about us?"

Their friends rat on them?

Those numbers are made up on the spot (as are 67.4% of all statistics)?

Actually, my guess is the key word is 'diagnosed' and would infer there are probable transgender individuals in the casework literature originall thought to be other things, that are now seen as TS - the statistics are possibly over years of sample... I don't know the methodology and wasn't interested at the time I came upon the numbers over two years ago.

I suspect - this is from conversations with my therapist who is very knowledgeable - that there are several hundred thousand transgender people in the USA - and a good many of these are transsexual. Her estimate is this (again an opinion) less than 20% ever do anything about gender dysphoria, and only a small portion of those are ever diagnosed by a qualified GT. She also said in her experience as few as 10-20% of those diagnosed ever transition, Those transitioning AND completing SRS is even rarer - usually due to lack of money. Only the SRS surgery numbers seem to be available - as those transitioning - using Tor HRT - are not well documented.

I doubt we will have a clear view of all this for decades, perhaps when the population sampling is more reliable and larger. The definitions to perform statistical research are also so vague at this time. For example, what is a diagnosed transsexual?

Lizzy

[Guest Syrra]

No idea, Lizzy... But I'm not going anywhere. Not a chance., As long as y'all will have me, I'll be here.

~Syrra

[Guest Elizabeth K]

No idea, Lizzy... But I'm not going anywhere. Not a chance., As long as y'all will have me, I'll be here.

~Syrra

Yep = we will have you!

grin

Lizzy

[Drea]

I don't know how to explain the disappearing members, but regrettably I am a stats geek and I feel I have to point out that any numerical figure applied to the transgender population (and any sub-population thereof) are pure conjecture.

Given how self identification with a subgroup doesn't mean one is actually a member of that subgroup as well as "diagonsis" itself often being a matter of self diagnosis (i.e. professionals take your word for it) I would agree.

Maybe many end up leaving when they discovr everything is heavily moderated and they feel they can't express themselves without having what may be unpopular opinions moderated out?

[Guest KimberlyF]

Prob a hundred reasons. Many people have clothing purges. They buy stuff, and then toss it all and buy it again. It's cyclical but it gets harder and harder. I know some people online who are the same. I see some people who registered in 2009 that had a few posts then come back all energetic late 2010 as if they worked some things out and surprise this didn't go away. I hope some decided this is something I have to do, and have to commit myself fully to like yesterday, and that means cutting the expense of the net and working any job I can to do what I have to do. I'm sure some had spouses find out and were given ultimatums. I hope whatever the reason, they find peace.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Given how self identification with a subgroup doesn't mean one is actually a member of that subgroup as well as "diagonsis" itself often being a matter of self diagnosis (i.e. professionals take your word for it) I would agree.

Maybe many end up leaving when they discovr everything is heavily moderated and they feel they can't express themselves without having what may be unpopular opinions moderated out?

Could be. Its a balance. Many may leave when they cannot pick-up a date, talk suggestively to a teen, or flame people who disagree. Moderation certainly will chase some good people away.

I think the mission statement as a suicide prevention site - essentially trumps, my opinion.

Self-diagnosis - another possible reason - they come on and investigate, make a decision - go away.

Lizzy