Would You Intervene?

[Guest (Lightsider)]

I have taken my time with this question. One could jump to the rescue and save the day or walk away? Or is it as simple as that?

One really does not know what they would do unless presented with the situation. Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20. I imagine if I were going to school with Gwen at the same time would I have jumped to her defense? Probably not because I was scared to death myself. As an adult with the knowledge I have now, with out a question I would step in depending on the situation.

Physically intervening should ALWAYS be the last resort.

What is a hero any way?

[JJ]

True -you never know till it happens. But with my background in social services I have been there. And been lucky to walk away a few times I suppose.

Then there were those incidents in grade school -I even went and sat with the Mexican American kids when they decided to make them all sit at the back of the class one day (long ago in Texas-they really wanted them to quit). I got a paddling in school and a beating with a razor strap when I got home too for defying the school, as I knew I would. That wasn't the last time in my life I stood up for what I felt was right. Probably will till my dieing day

That doesn't make me a hero. That is just how God made me. And credit goes there

Johnny

[Guest Donna Jean]

I have taken my time with this question. One could jump to the rescue and save the day or walk away? Or is it as simple as that?

Physically intervening should ALWAYS be the last resort.

What is a hero any way?

No, it's never as simple as that......

Even a cop must use discretion when intervening....will talking work?

At what stage is the event? Does it require physical intervention at this point or can it be diffused?

Yes, Physically intervening should always be the last resort!

Donna Jean

[Guest Elena]

No, it's never as simple as that......

Even a cop must use discretion when intervening....will talking work?

At what stage is the event? Does it require physical intervention at this point or can it be diffused?

Yes, Physically intervening should always be the last resort!

Donna Jean

Very much true. My personal rules probably come across as kinda overboard and abrupt. I assure you I wait as long as safely possible to progress to the next level of escalation. Whatever your personal standards are, escalating a bad situation is always dangerous and should be avoided whenever possible. Unfortunately it is also impossible to be trained to respond appropriately to every situation. You can only gain the insight for that by actually experiencing those horrible encounters numerous times.

I know that personally as a combat veteran, and growing up as painfuly as I did, there are undoubtedly situations that I would over react to. Goddess forgive me if I ever find myself in such a situation again.

I think though the real question is how important is your own safety to you in the face of witnessing a wrong being commited at whatever level? It isn't about being a hero, it is about doing what your heart says you must. Some will see that and call it heroic. Personally I cannot accept such praise, though two of the most important people in my life give me it. The cost inside is too high. If that is indeed what being a hero is, it sucks. Anyone who has had to make that sort of sacrifice I think would agree. I know every one that I know who has been called a hero hates it, because those who laud the title cannot understand what it took from them to be called such. At the same time they would all do it again because their beliefs deem it nessecary.

Sorry I am ranting, but I really hate that word.

Elena

[Guest AlexForever]

I really don't know.

First...WHEN are you supposed to call the police? In what kind of occasions? Do you call the police when people are calling a transperson names and being phobic? Not all countries have discrimination laws and the police might as well laugh in your face for calling them "just for an argument in which you're not even involved".

Hell, they can't do anything when people are beating other people up sometimes. They surely didn't do anything for me when I was forced to stop riding the bus because I had become a target.

Second...having other people around isn't a guarantee for the problem to stop; there was over 30 people around when I got beated up in said bus and called names. NO ONE tried to say anything or stop them. Some of them were adults, perfectly able to stop a bunch of teenage girls and boys. The bus driver pretended to be deaf when I complained to him later. He just stared in front of him until I got off the bus.

So you could as well be killed while trying to help...while having people watch you and not doing anything about it. NOTHING.

Especially if you are also "a freak".

I don't know if I would intervene; I've had enough of this kind of situations by myself, and no one stopped to help me, no matter how scared or hurt I was. Where were the heroes then?

There's this cynical part inside of me that thinks that in the end you can only count on yourself, risking life for someone you don't even know is insane. Especially when you have already male bovine crap to deal with on your own.

But there's a part of me that feels the blood boiling when such discrimination and hate happens, and wants to intervene.

Also, I have no training, I only did some martial arts and I'm out of shape; the only weapon I've got is an extreme sense of self-survival and a "fight until death if threatened" instinct.

I really don't know what I'd do.

[JJ]

One thing we need to realize here too is that those of us who are here-especially those of us who are older and transitioned or transitioning-tend to be strong brave people. Those of us who were not are either dead-and that may be as many as nearly half of us-or hiding from themselves as far from a place like Laura's as they can get. We have already decided to survive and we have decided to do something so difficult the average person can't even envision it.

So there is probably a disproportionate number of heroes here. Most people in this world go with the flow. If someone stands up they very often are then empowered to act themselves IF they have been uncomfortable with what was happening. Just human nature. If it were me being harassed I'd stand up as best I could and no, I would not expect anyone to be coming to the rescue.

I learned as a child to take control of a situation-I was very thin but always the tallest and often the strongest kid in school when I was fending bullies off people. I really only had to strike once. I hit a really big kid and hit him hard in the face in front of a whole class because he was calling me names. I don't advocate violence but I never was harassed again and was able to defend others.

What really happened is that I learned to take control of a situation. My family background, social work training, and my nature reinforced that. My step-father (who Mother married when I entered Jr. high)was a great, and within his profession, a famous trial lawyer and I learned more from him. Saw him walk into full hotels and have people beg him to take the best room. Twice we came up on accidents (we traveled a lot in the summer) and he took charge and organized everyone there-once saving lives. I saw hundreds of situations where he was just automatically the one in charge wherever he went. Never heard him raise his voice outside the family or a hand to a stranger. This is something you can hone and reinforce but I think some degree has to be inborn.

I saw other social workers fail -and get into serious danger -because they just couldn't do it. I once had to go in and take custody of a child from an infamous motor cycle gang -they were waiting for me. For backup there were no less than 9 cop cars from different agencies. But the law was I had to go in first-unarmed. One agent opened the door for me and the last thing I heard before I entered was "If anything happens we'll avenge you!" Like out a movie and he was dead serious. Luckily I was able to go in alone and I did diffuse the situation. Nothing bad happened-although 4 days later the police were called because one of the people I was dealing with murdered another one and when the police responded they also killed an officer. I was skilled, I was trained and I was very,very lucky. But I also know that I would stand up and stop anything I saw that was wrong. Where an innocent victim is being hurt. I won't try to stop fights between guys or that kind of thing. Relatively equally matched adults are on their own.

But as I said above -that doesn't make me a hero. I was born this way and then honed by circumstances as well as being either watched over or very lucky. It doesn't mean I am any better - there are many people like me out there. But we are not the norm. You have to do what works for you, Whatever you can, but if you don't know how to step in you can also put yourself in danger. I still believe in calling the police. Even if they don't respond there is a record. And sometimes just making the call is enough. I believe you should do all you safely can. And forgiving yourself for not doing what you can't. We are all made differently. I, for instance, am invaluable in an emergency but not the best at social gatherings. Am not easy to live with. Even for myself at times.

All you can do is your best. And Alex, while they aren't always there when you need them there are people who will stand up for you, but you can never count on that. You are right. I am very sorry that you had the experience on the bus. Sadly most people don't see us as we really are but instead see the stereotypes and don't feel called on to defend us because we are not part of their group mentally. However that is changing, Slowly-but changing. I hope that you never have to face that alone again.

Johnny

[Guest Doodlen]

Alex: I am so sorry that happened to you. I wish I would have been on that bus that day. I really really do.

[Guest Emily Ray]

For most of my life I was afraid of physical violence. I had suffered at the hands of bullies throughout school and generally thought myself a wimp or sissy. I then joined the Marines and learned some additional fighting skills. I still didn't have any confidence in myself or my skills from wrestling for three years or Marine Corps line drills. Then one night I was walking down a dangerous road in Tijuana when three teenagers jumped me. All my training came back to me in a heartbeat. I was able to beat them off of me and chased them away. Since that night I am no longer afraid of fighting. I will confront anyone who is picking on or harassing someone else. I will also call the police before I step into it just to make sure I have backup on the way.

Huggs

Emily

[Guest Angelicah]

I'm sorry to say that no, I would probably not intervene. But I wish I could.

I would most likely be death scared and try to get as far away as possible, get whatever business I had done as fast as possible and get home before I started to cry on open streets.

It's not that I don't care, because I do. But I know for a fact that if I feel threatened I run, even if the threat is not towards me. I run as far away as I can to save my self. I might be a coward but the past has made me so, and nothing can change the memories I have. But hopefully there will be someone else nearby who will be of help

[JJ]

We are what we are and the way we are made. The world needs those who stand and fight but also those who run away so they can pick up the pieces later. For me not fighting is what would be hard. So don't feel bad.

Whatever you do is how you were made.

Hugs

Johnny

[Guest Donna Jean]

Whatever you do is how you were made.

Hugs

Johnny

There are cops and politicians and peacemakers and war makers.....

The world is a mix...

Donna Jean

[Sakura]

I'm a "leap before i look" type of person, and know with out a shadow of a doubt , that i would step in. because i have done it before. random strangers, transgender, friends, family, makes no difference to me. if some one needs help, or looks like they need my help. i will react with out a hesitation. i spent my years from 5 to 12 ish being victimized. watching my moms boy friends beat on her, then my mom put me into karate. in a short time. i started eating bullies up, the need to deffend didn't come until i was 15ish , one night one of my moms boy friends. a marine hit her like she was a man, i went nuts . and stepped in..... i got in some good hits, but ultimately it was the single worst beating of my life. but he left with out further violence toward my mom, and i was like " hey if i can make some one that tough back off. i can make any one"

thus started along career of coming to peoples deffence . the last 4-5 fights i have been in we're for that very reason, one was over a woman i didn't even know , a man was beating on her in a bar he was a great big guy, and she was a tiny little woman . i was going to let it go. i mean there were 4 men standing with in arms reach. one of them her boy friend from what i gathered,and all of them about the attackers size , but after he punched her 5-6 times in the face with no signs of stopping, and none of those men looking like they were even about to help her. i intervened . i got 4 bruised ribs, mostly from her.... after i grabbed him these four big strong burly guys grabbed her, she kicked me several times tying to kick him. after that me and her became pretty good friends , she has a running joke that i'm her knight in shinning D cup lol

my mom, sisters, therapist even my self. try to tell me. i'm a girl. its not my job any more. and they are all right, but its just not in me to stand there and do nothing either. i don't see it as heroic i just see it as being a good person and doing the right thing.

Sakura

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

I've been thinking about this since I first saw this thread...trying to work out anything I COULD physically do to help someone in a position like that. It is in my nature to be a protector and defender. As a very young child I was beaten up for looking out for someone. Luckily since then I've never had to take physical blows again in order to protect someone although I have gone willingly into situations where I thought there was a reasonable risk of getting hurt and have taken emotional repercussions in some, but I've never let a physical or emotional risk stop me from helping anyone who needed it.

I was a gentleman in that way even while female.

Now I would still want to help someone who I saw being hassled or hurt but I don't know how. I would not be able to phone the police because I can't speak to use a telephone. I would not be able to intervene verbally, again because of having no voice to do so...and I would not be able to do much physically because my body is just not strong enough or able enough.

I think I would try still if someone was getting physically hurt and no one else was doing anything about it because I just couldn't stand back and watch or walk away. The only possible thing I can think of that I could try to do is to position my chair in between the person who was being hurt and the attacker. They could still walk round me but just maybe having a person in a wheelchair insert themself into the situation like that would shame them into backing off.

...more likely they would either walk round me or attack me too and I would be helpless to protect the person.

This question makes me sad because it reminds me that I can't be the protector I want to be.

I am regularly in a situation where a certain person says and does things to purposely be hurtful to my family and myself...making things emotionally and sometimes physically difficult for us often. It just kills me that the only thing I can do to protect them is to pick up the pieces when they're hurt by it.

Gabe

[Guest AlexForever]

It just kills me that the only thing I can do to protect them is to pick up the pieces when they're hurt by it.

Don't feel bad, that's very important too! Not everyone can count on someone to help them do that, it's a great help to have someone like you to make them feel better, so don't feel bad about it!

[Guest Karen K]

I have tought about this at length and have thoroughly read the posts here. I am encouraged by the responses, truly we don't have enough people in this world who would be willing to step up for anyone been assaulted.

As to how I would react: I do not know. Until the situation presents its self I can not say truthfully how I would respond. However, I do have one event in my life that I can ponit to. This happened during Mardi-Gras here in Southeast Texas. My then wife and I along with another couple were walking to the parade route from the parking area. We came to an rural intersection with stop signs in the north-south direction but not east-west. A car coming toward us had stopped at the intersection, but I suppose didn't take a really good look for traffic, as they proceded into the intersection they were struck but a pick-up, who was speeding but did not have a stop sign. The collision has harsh, but without hesitation I grabbed my cell and ran to the victims. I remember hear my my wife ask: where are you going? I informed the dispatcher the intersection and what had happened, I then checked on the occupants of both vehicles, calming them checking for injuries and letting them know that EMS and police were on their way.

Thankfully, no one was seriously injured, just a few bruises. My wife was agast that I would just run into an accident scene like that, but I could not have stood passively by. I do not know if I would come to aid of another the way I did back then, but I hope I would.

Laura Jane

[JJ]

Kind of on the subject-I think we have evolved as people to fit different niches. Society needs those who rush into danger or into battle in times of danger. They become the leaders who can save an individual or a group-but often they are not particularly good at the mundane everyday aspects of life and we need those people who heal and fix and make everything work. The people who are good at day by day.

I traced my family back on my father's side many centuries and they have except for the last couple of generations been warriors and explorers. One was a Crusader who died at the gates of Damascus, another was greatly rewarded for deeds in battle at the side of William the Conqueror. One was blamed for losing the battle of Flodden for the Scots too Every generation fought something or struck out to conquer new territory. Right down to to WWII when an uncle was a Frogman. A forerunner of the Seals and another distinguished himself in battle. My father ruptured his eardrums grabbing a live grenade someone fumbled in a practice and throwing it-it didn't make it quite far enough so he never fought. But when there is no battle -no quest or war-that same family seems to flounder and be lost. To squander talent and feel displaced somehow. It is much the same for the families they married into as well-a sort of like marrying like. I can no more not fight for a cause or go to the rescue than not breathe. But as I said that is not really a virtue or something to praise me for-I believe it is pure genetics. And I am not your first choice at a party-but I have always been the person people turned to in an emergency. Just the way it is and the way we are made.

Because we are all part of a whole and all needed just as we are.

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

Don't feel bad, that's very important too! Not everyone can count on someone to help them do that, it's a great help to have someone like you to make them feel better, so don't feel bad about it!

Thank you Alex.

It just makes me feel less of a man and like I'm letting them down that I can't protect them.