Issues With Employment As A Trans Person

[KieranD]

I've been out for many years, being myself for a very long time and have been looking for a job. I've been unemployed for a little over a year and a half and the search has been very frustrating. I'm genderqueer but want to default as male in the whole cis world and have been on testosterone for 9 months.

I'm still read as female the overwhelming amount of the time and haven't had my name or gender markers changed (can't afford it). When I fill out applications and write my resume I use my legal name, or if I have the ability to simply write the first initial of my legal name I'll do that. This has becoming a problem. I don't know when to come out since I want to be able to get a job yet still be called by my preferred name and hopefully pronouns that are "more correct." Do I tell an employer at an interview? Do I wait until I have the position and risk being in a really uncomfortable position?

I haven't been able to figure it out. Sometimes over the phone people hear me as male and get confused about who they are talking to...anyways...has anybody else been in situations like this? What did you do?

[megandb]

Kieran, I too have been unemployed for a very long time its been over 18 months (I have had a seasonal job and a part time job that paid next to nothing) I do know how much being unemployed stinks. I also started transitioning about the time I lost my last real job, (december of 2009) I transitioned as far as i could until I ran out of money.

Now you know where I sit so I will tell you where I stand on your issue.

Normaly I help people out with similar problems in chat where I am one of the Assistant Chat Directors, I normaly have much more info on someone before I suggest anything so here im just going to put it out there, its up to you to take my suggestions or not.

What I would do if I woke up in your shoes tommrow morning, (I am in a similar situation I just had a job interview for a lucrative but tough job, I got the job offer and accepted after the interview.) there are a few factors that affect it 1. are you in a state (if in the us) that has gender id in its state ENDA, 2. does the company you are applying for or interviewing with have gender id in their non discrimnation policiy 3. is it something you feel you must disclose upfront

if the answer to any of the three is yes then you must concider 1. even if it is illegal will they use this to disqualify me from the job and use some excuse 2. will it affect my chances of showing them im the best one for the job

I cant answer any of these for you, its something only you can answer.

that being said I would wait until I have the job and prove myself good at the job and then come out to an HR manager at first. As a friend of mine says "you have to live first" all the best plans for transition in the world wont mean anything if you are sitting at a desk at home searching for jobs while broke, I would rather be working and bringing in money and building a bank account while not transitioning so I can transition with no issues later, after all while unemployed i wasnt transitioning anyway. Recap- work on just getting a job for now worry about telling them later, the job market is tough enough now without giving them a reason to not hire you. Work and build up a bank account so you may transition later, and find out what local laws and company policies are concerning gender id.

There you go my suggestions and advice, do with it what you will.

I wish you luck in the job hunt, hang in there every "no" you get brings you that much closer to a "yes" afterall you just need one "yes"

Megan Jessica

[Carolyn Marie]

There are no easy answers to this question, Kieran. To use a name on your job application that doesn't match your social security number or driver's license is an invitation to being fired for falsifying an app. But coming out to prospective employers can be just as bad. My suggestion is to research the company you are applying for, and if they have trans-friendly policies and protections in place, consider using your birth name but tell them about yourself. You may get hired and still be able to go by your chosen name and gender if they are cooperative.

Good luck!

Carolyn Marie

[KieranD]

Alright, I'm in NY which does not have an ENDA (I know because I've been going to Albany every year since 2004 trying to get that stuff passed). The jobs I'm applying to are...well...everything. I figure retail is aiming low but I need something! I recently interviewed for a children's photography position because I have the experience, not sure about their policies on gender. I also have been transitioning and the cost for those expenses is fairly small (I do not intend on having any surgeries). Transitioning later isn't an option.

I guess I could apply to just companies that have gender identity and expression in their non discrimination policy but that would be limiting myself and maybe those places aren't hiring.

[Sakura]

The best thing i have found is to make as little issue of it as possible. it will eventually come up , unless you are post op. so you need to handle it calmly. if an employer precives you as a potential problem from the get go then they may go with some one else. present as male and explain only as much as you need to . if you are lucky enough to have a unisexed name . you can slide pretty far on assumption alone . most of my jobs pre name and gender marker change were gotten . because my name was unisexed. and most just assumed i'm female

but even a name change or gender change on your IDs dosn't ensure gender annonimity. i just started a new job recently today just made my second week there. the job is going grrrreat, no one suspects me . but i know know with certainty , that had they known i would not have been hired . the job is some what sexist. it has a ratio of 9to1. 9 women to every one man. the reason being and as explained to me by my female supervisor. women have smaller fingers better manual dexterity, and hand eye corordination . it fits the job better.

but even with my name and gender changed to female. uncle sam still knows i got pulled into the office on my 3rd day, by my HR rep to be asked why the gender code on my social security verification form came back as failed . i had her shut the door, and gave a brief explination . i didn't make any demands . or ask for any connssesions after all was said and done she let me go back to work. her only real responce was " oh.... i thought it was just a coding error " assured me that it would stay between me an her and let me go back to work .

like said above keeping a cool head , and not blowing it up bigger than it needs to be is the best way. it reassures them you will not be a problem , and unless they are really backwards or bigotted you should slide by

Sakura

[Carolyn Marie]

i got pulled into the office on my 3rd day, by my HR rep to be asked why the gender code on my social security verification form came back as failed .

Sakura

Sakura, I'm confused. When I changed my name with Social Security, I'm pretty sure my card and info identify me as female. Was I wrong to think that?

Carolyn Marie

[Guest IsabelleStPierre]

Sakura, I'm confused. When I changed my name with Social Security, I'm pretty sure my card and info identify me as female. Was I wrong to think that?

Carolyn Marie

Actually the gender marker on your Social Security isn't listed on your card, but rather is maintained in their computer systems. The only thing that will change that marker nowadays is SRS. You used to be able to get it changed pre-9/11 without many problems, but now they require a certified letter from the surgeon that performs your SRS.

Now, if you fill out a job application and list your gender as the way you present, but not your legal gender as maintained by SSA, the SSA generates a data miss match letter and sends it off to your employer. These mismatch letters catch things like wrong birthdays, wrong gender, and a plethora of other things. There have been many a trans person fired over their employer receiving such a letter. From the company's standpoint, you lied on your application which is considered fraud in most cases, and in most cases grounds for immediate termination. The same goes if you don't use the same name as on your SS card.

The real problem comes when you have identity papers in multiple genders! My driver's license says Female, but then my Social Security information says male, as does my birth certificate and passport. They all at least have the proper name on them now

Peace, love, and contentment,

Isabelle

[KieranD]

The best thing i have found is to make as little issue of it as possible. it will eventually come up , unless you are post op. so you need to handle it calmly. if an employer precives you as a potential problem from the get go then they may go with some one else. present as male and explain only as much as you need to . if you are lucky enough to have a unisexed name . you can slide pretty far on assumption alone .

As much as I need to would be asking to be called a certain name, having an ID Card from them with my preferred name, etc. I'm the unfortunate many who has a very obviously gendered legal name. There have been times where it just doesn't come up. And as I have said...I've been living as myself for years...I would guess and say 8 years total (although I've been "dressing" as myself for maybe 14 years).

but even a name change or gender change on your IDs dosn't ensure gender annonimity. i just started a new job recently today just made my second week there. the job is going grrrreat, no one suspects me .

I don't really care for gender anonymity...I know I'm the square peg that just wants to have a round-ish shaped hole. I'm not a man, I'm not male in the way most people think but I would prefer to be called "he" over "she."

like said above keeping a cool head , and not blowing it up bigger than it needs to be is the best way. it reassures them you will not be a problem , and unless they are really backwards or bigotted you should slide by

Sakura

I think I would probably prefer staying jobless over having to go backwards for an unknown amount of time. I mean...yea I need a job, but I need to be seen as me (or more closely to me) more than the job. One will give me money which won't make me happy and I'll have to go by "that name" and called she which would make me feel extra not good. The other way I get to be not depressed/feeling horrible but I won't have money. The 2nd is better than the first.

I also think I can't get a gender marker change unless I have surgery...and I'm not having surgery. I also think I'm going to start working with lobby groups in getting rid of gender markers on IDs, giving the option of leaving a gender marker blank, or getting rid of the absurd rules in getting a gender marker change. I really think that the surgery standard is very busted in so many many ways (cissexist, classist, ableist, etc).

[Sakura]

It would be safe to assume you are still technically legally male with uncle sam, Carolyn. when i applied to have my gender marker changed at the same time as my name with SSA. the man there was really nice, but more or less told me that it can not be changed , unless presenting some letter from some doctor stating some change had occured . he left it very open ended as to what change that may entail or be acceptable.

i am starting to realize . even gender change on driverlicense are simply cosmetic it holds no real wieght above a state level.

well kieran, there is a saying i often like, " The nail that sticks out the furthest gets hammered down the hardest" it sucks but it is just the way life is. square pegs in round holes only seem to really work in holly wood . lady gaga is an example of that. in the real world she would be lucky to find a job working at McDonalds ( she is one of the odd bals that has found a niche for her self in her oddness) but real life and society loves gender confomity. I'm not telling you that you must change or conform . you have principles you are willing to stick by, and i admirer that in a person. but as the saying above implies it will make it so much more harder on you

a suggestion though. have you tried temporary employment agencies ? (temp agencies ) before my name change i found a few that allwoed me to report to assigment , with my chosen name instead of my legal name . if you could find one that allows that, you could save up the money to get a name change(between 150 and 400 dollars ), and if really lucky hired on permantly with out them ever having to know your old name. heart felt good luck in what ever you decide to do

Sakura

[Drea]

As I recall documentation establishing SRS was still required to change gender with the SSA even prior to 9/11. I knew I needed it well before then. Though there are always those few cases where someone gets lucky and a clerk just changes it without documentation or thinks it is an old error in the database.

These days however the SSA does take surgical certification that says "Gender Confirmation Surgery" which is ill defined, but often assumed to be SRS. Surgeons are often wiling to use that ambiguous terminology for anything that might reasonably be considered gender confirmation. Thus FTM can get one for top surgery thereby getting around some of headaches. MTF can get such for an orchi, breast augmentation, or FFS. Heck if you need a hangnail surgically removed to confirm your gender it is fair game!

There have been more cross checks between the IRS, SSA and employer submitted paperwork these days. That is in part a response to identity theft. Used to be that there could be glaring errors, but as long as the social security number was there the IRS just accepted the money.

[KieranD]

I figure I'm screwed.either way. On the job I try to fit in just enough but um...still in a bad position since I'm still trans and haven't ever acted gender nomrmative. Temp agencies don't have anything going on right now.

I made a promise to myself when I started hormomes. That promise was that I would get out of debt before I get my name changed...plus I still haven't found the right middle name.

[Guest ranse]

I'm not in a situation where I can be unemployed since I have a family to provide for.

As much as it hurts to place our true selves on hold, it is sometimes the most practical thing to do. If you have debts and you're going to transition, the bottom line is you need a source of steady income.

Get hired, prove yourself, feel out the environment, and then come out.

I dress in male clothing at all times. I'm sure my co-workers wonder what's up with me. One woman asks pointed questions about my clothing all the time, but I'm not planning on coming out until I make enough physical transition that it is obvious to others. Frankly, I don't pass well enough as male right now that I would request others to to refer to me by my chosen name and gender-appropriate pronouns. It irritates me to hear my birth name and "she" or "her," but I can suck it up and get the job done because my kids need to be fed.

As far as name changes, etc., on paperwork, I won't do that until I have legally changed my name and have ID that confirms the name-change. For now, I just go by my initials on things like business cards, my door plaque, etc.

It is wonderful that you have principles you want to uphold, but sometimes you have to compromise in order to survive.

[KieranD]

Ranse, I'm not going to transition. I have been transitioning for years.

[Guest ranse]

Ranse, I'm not going to transition. I have been transitioning for years.

Sorry I misunderstood you ... I assumed that since you've posted before about being on Testosterone, that at least you had that cost involved.

I know that transition is as individual as the person. Again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

[KieranD]

Ranse, I'm not going to transition. I have been transitioning for years.

Sorry I misunderstood you ... I assumed that since you've posted before about being on Testosterone, that at least you had that cost involved.

I know that transition is as individual as the person. Again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

T is $12 for 5 month supply. I can afford that.

[Guest Isabella]

I'm not qualified to give advice and im not replying to anyone on this post. Im mtf pre-op & have been transitioning for nearly a decade. I've been on hrt for nearly a decade, changed my legal name first, middle, & last to all female suggestive names. I've been fired for trying to transition on the job (examples: refusal to use male facilities, not wear makeup/jewelry, & other bs. I've gotten crucified for my treatment of this subject so I will tread lightly. It's simply not an option for me to even think of presenting as a male. Having said that I still assume people in general will know or suspect I'm ts. I don't bring it up or make it an issue unless someone else does & then I'll give full disclosure; as much as they want to know within reason(my definition). My way has caused me no end of stuff to complain about but I'm too old to play games & walk on egg shells. I am's what I am & if that's a problem for someone I won't waste are time

[KieranD]

I now have a job in retail. Most of my coworkers use my alternative name which is a form of my last name. I haven't spoken up about pronouns but desperately want to. Customers read me as female still which is frustrating since I've been doing everything in my power not for that to happen.

[KieranD]

I'm likely getting fired soon from that job I got. There are too many managers and hardly any are on the same page. They didn't see me as male, call me he, etc. It's really not a good fit for me but I hope to find something better.

[Guest Mia J]

Hello Kieran,

I am sorry to hear that the job is not working out. I can understand about the managers I have been in that situation many times.

Mia

[KieranD]

Yea, it's no good that this far into my transition I'm not seen as something closer to how I identify. It's a crummy situation.