Stealth?

[Guest AiAmAngel]

1 True stealthness is a myth. It is the information age. Anyone who wants to can find out your past very easily.

2 And hiding will do nothing to improve our status as citizens in this society.

3 Now I'm not saying to wear a sign that says transgender everywhere you go, and people such as co-workers and casual acquaintances can and should be on a need-to-know basis (they don't need to know), but here's a question.

4 What would you do if a not-very-passable transwoman came to work at the same place as you, and all your friends and co-workers who don't know about you started making fun of her. What would you do? Tell them off and risk outing yourself? Say nothing and let it go?

I don't want to be mean but none of this is really an argument against stealth. I itemized the list in bold so I can see exactly what to address

1. This is a bit of an un-verified claim among out transsexual women. The simple reality of the fact is information on any/every person is not that abundant, and the people who have it do not care. Take google for an example, a widley used search engine that practically governs how people use the internet and what is available to them. Think about everything you have ever googled in your life time. Google more than likely knows who you are, where you live, your habits, patterns, when you sleep, when you work, etc. Let's say you google how to cheat on your husband'. Google "knows" you're cheating on your husband (or thinking about it, pondering how its done, etc.). They could build up a case on you based on all your searches, the times they were done, what else was searched, what you did/did not click on immediately after, your post to all your social networking websites, etc. And, then they could mail it all to your husband in a nice manilla envelope (preferably with fancy embroidery, considering the occasion). But think about it... that's ridiculous right? Why?

Clearly, the average person would not even have access to the information as most people are not Google engineers. Furthermore, Google is an information entity with multitudes of employees world wide, and not a single one is designated to monitor your life. In other words, no one at Google cares; and, no one that cares has access to Google.

In the same way, sure. There's tons of information on "you". There's your bills you've been paying, public record of your name change (if you decided you didn't need to pay for an LGBT lawyer), maybe even a certified copy of your therapist's letter for your SRS. But, no one cares. Your credit card agency, your bank, the IRS, the "government", et al do *not* care to be involved in your life. You, statistically speaking, are seriously more likely to die in a car crash before you are maliciously outed by "the man". And, as someone with relatives working for information companies, I can assure you, they DO get information wrong! Even if someone supposedly searched you on beenverified and saw your previous name, all your addresses, and a list of pretty damning evidence, the reality of the fact is they tend to not be organized sources of information- and are well known to have a slew of problems with record keeping that they refuse to correct ("we don't control that!"). The organized and reliable sources (the ones that might be used in a background check) can be readily changed, provided you're a law abiding citizen of otherwise reputable conduct and are ready to drag that company to hell and back (because, again, you're just not that important to them).

Besides, pretty much all the information "out there" can simply be mitigated by legal transition while relatively young, as opposed to when you're 23 and "need to get it together". You can sleep a little easier tonight.

That said... avoid urinating off powerful attorneys. ESPECIALLY divorce attorneys.

Buts, jfsag, let's say I think my teacher is an FtM trans man (which I do), how do I verify that? Even if I suspect, what on earth am I going to do about it? Google it? Go to the hospital and demand an (unaltered) list of all surgeries he's ever had? Should I be able to verify it, what are the odds I'm enough of an insensitive claud to out him? Yeah. Stealth is simple- and since the key concept is not to make people suspect in the first place, its beyond doable if you really want it.

2. People generally are not exactly nice to transsexual women.

3. I agree. But, if you are out, why not? I'd imagine that if I was out, I'd enjoy wearing such a shirt.

4. Ah. This one kind of reminds me of the inch mile argument (/fallacy). If you give someone an inch, they will take a mile. If stealth is okay, its also okay (or even necessary) to play dumb and let other women be abused for the same characteristic you have chosen to permanently conceal.

The thing is this *could* happen. However, its not an argument against stealth. You can give someone an inch, but you have no way of knowing they *will* take a mile, until you sit back and watch them take it. You can say a stealth woman might heartlessly allow a non-passable/out trans woman to be cruelly mocked, but you have no way of knowing that she will until you see her do it.

Besides, a lot of stealth manuals are written by women who've been there, done that, and are ready to share. The reality of the fact is that more people know about LGBT bullying today than they did 20 years ago. Even though people have "adequate" reason not to admit it outright, I'd gauge its pretty common knowledge that transgender people exist, at the very least. More and more, people everywhere are stepping up and saying its not okay to be a bully. Today, its not necessary to "be" a transgender person to stick up for a transgender person anymore than you'd need to be an ex-slave to be an abolitionist.

Should you chose to let that woman suffer, transgender or not, has nothing to do with whether or not you are transgender yourself; its completely contingent on/of your moral character.

So yeah. Summary:

Stealth can be done. It is an individual choice that is neither right nor wrong. Its personal.

I don't think every trans woman should be stealth/should be out, I just don't like bad arguments being repeated.

[Guest Leah1026]

I don't want to be mean but none of this is really an argument against stealth. I itemized the list in bold so I can see exactly what to address

1. This is a bit of an un-verified claim among out transsexual women. The simple reality of the fact is information on any/every person is not that abundant, and the people who have it do not care.

Stealth can be done. It is an individual choice that is neither right nor wrong. Its personal.

I don't think every trans woman should be stealth/should be out, I just don't like bad arguments being repeated.

Sounds naive to me.

The government will know.

Credit agencies will know. (You buy a car or house and people will know)

Law enforcement will know.

Old friends and family will know.

Any employer who does an indepth background check will probably know.

Nosey people can find out.

You would have to toally cut yourself off from any dealings with the LGBT community (they tend to have good T-dar).

Can't have anything to do with other trans people.

Have to trans proof your apartment. Hide your hormones etc.

Have to lie to your healthcare providers.

Legal name changes are on file for the public to view.

Have to explain your lack of family.

Have to explain not having any childhood pictures.

Have to filter any conversation about your life before transition.

Get my point? It's a heck of a lot of work to be stealth and in the end you are still NOT stealth. You may have succeeded in becoming your true self, but you'll still be living in a closet. That's stress I don't need. I live an assimilated life. Some people know, but most do not. The subject very rarely comes up, but if it does I answer matter of factly and move on. Other than my crappy family (who I hardly see anyway) I have a good life. More or less I am the woman I would have been and it didn't require me hiding in a closet. If that's what you want to do, go for it; but most people sooner or later get tired of the secrecy.

Here's Leslie Townsend's experience:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/LeslieTownsend.html

[Guest AiAmAngel]

I don't want to be mean but none of this is really an argument against stealth. I itemized the list in bold so I can see exactly what to address

1. This is a bit of an un-verified claim among out transsexual women. The simple reality of the fact is information on any/every person is not that abundant, and the people who have it do not care.

Stealth can be done. It is an individual choice that is neither right nor wrong. Its personal.

I don't think every trans woman should be stealth/should be out, I just don't like bad arguments being repeated.

Sounds naive to me.

The government will know.

Credit agencies will know. (You buy a car or house and people will know)

Law enforcement will know.

Old friends and family will know.

Any employer who does an indepth background check will probably know.

Nosey people can find out.

You would have to toally cut yourself off from any dealings with the LGBT community (they tend to have good T-dar).

Can't have anything to do with other trans people.

Have to trans proof your apartment. Hide your hormones etc.

Have to lie to your healthcare providers.

Legal name changes are on file for the public to view.

Have to explain your lack of family.

Have to explain not having any childhood pictures.

Have to filter any conversation about your life before transition.

Get my point? It's a heck of a lot of work to be stealth and in the end you are still NOT stealth. You may have succeeded in becoming your true self, but you'll still be living in a closet. That's stress I don't need. I live an assimilated life. Some people know, but most do not. The subject very rarely comes up, but if it does I answer matter of factly and move on. Other than my crappy family (who I hardly see anyway) I have a good life. More or less I am the woman I would have been and it didn't require me hiding in a closet. If that's what you want to do, go for it; but most people sooner or later get tired of the secrecy.

Here's Leslie Townsend's experience:

http://ai.eecs.umich...ieTownsend.html

While I don't exactly want to respond item by item, the first few go along with the age limit, as a lot of things on that list don't exist when you're 15 and don't have to exist when you're 18, or at least not in the wrong name. You can amend old data in the major background checking firms I know of (though both refuse to officially "recognize" the process). Assuming you've been "out" before adulthood, there doesn't need to be a lack of pictures, only a lack of pre-school and baby album at most. Even then, babies all look the same and you might have been a tomboy. I don't think a trans woman planning on stealth owns anything that is ostentatiously "transgender" to anyone but another woman who's also trans; and hormone therapy wasn't even made for transgender women. The LGBT community is just as bad at spotting trans women as they are spotting other gays, despite the gaydar hype, in my honest opinion. Or, at least in my area, as I haven't met every gay man in the world. An LGBT lawyer is a definite essential to a *good* name change, specifically one that is not on public record. And, lastly (though I doubt this is in order), a woman planning on stealth more than likely does not want to talk about her past. Its not what I'd call unusual to not want to talk about one's teenage years.

But again, I think its simply reaching to say anyone knows a thing. At most, the nosiest people only get fragments that they will rationalize away, out of politeness, before you even get the opportunity. Things that can be explained away as coding errors, having retro parents, or even simply confessed. The only people who truly seem to figure it out are other somewhat stealthy transsexual people, who aren't exactly in a position to say anything. Even when people do figure it out, that does not mitigate being stealth, rather it prevents you from being stealth forever. What would one expect, after all.

So, in summary:

-Transition young

-Live off the radar until your finances are in order

-Carry a camera

-Shell out for a lawyer that's worked with trans women before

As for the secrecy, that I can't defend. I will concede that it is one giant weight over your shoulders, but that's about it. All I'm trying to say is that if you really want it, you can get it.

Stealth is impractical and unnecessary, but not impossible.

[Guest Risu]

Well I am glad Angel here seems to know everything about everything...

Anyways I had been avoiding this topic because it is a bit of a sore issue for me but Autumn, honey... I am so glad you've changed your mind on a few things. You don't have to live full time in the trans community, nor do you need to go to the obvious amounts of stress and struggle trying to be stealth will inevitably cause. You can live a well balanced and comfortable life and now that you're not only full time but close to having your surgery, transition and being trans will hopefully become something you don't even have to think about very often if at all.

[~Nova~]

You can live a well balanced and comfortable life and now that you're not only full time but close to having your surgery, transition and being trans will hopefully become something you don't even have to think about very often if at all.

That's all I ever wanted. I just wanna move past the "I'm trans" life, and move into the I'm female life.

[Guest Svenna]

You can live a well balanced and comfortable life and now that you're not only full time but close to having your surgery, transition and being trans will hopefully become something you don't even have to think about very often if at all.

That's all I ever wanted. I just wanna move past the "I'm trans" life, and move into the I'm female life.

Autumn,

I am sure many feel the same way as you do and I see nothing wrong with it. I'm not sure where my own journey may end on the gender spectrum, but where ever I end up, being happy and satisfied is definitely the goal. Full female life or somewhere in between, no matter. I just gotta be me...

Thanks for sharing again! Svenna

[Guest Robin Winter]

I've thought about stealth, wished for it, but honestly, I don't think it's what I really want, I just want being out to not be scary.

[Guest AiAmAngel]

Well I am glad Angel here seems to know everything about everything...

Anyways I had been avoiding this topic because it is a bit of a sore issue for me but Autumn, honey... I am so glad you've changed your mind on a few things. You don't have to live full time in the trans community, nor do you need to go to the obvious amounts of stress and struggle trying to be stealth will inevitably cause. You can live a well balanced and comfortable life and now that you're not only full time but close to having your surgery, transition and being trans will hopefully become something you don't even have to think about very often if at all.

Haha, yes

I will certainly confess myself to be a self-proclaimed know it all

I just don't like when people say things are impossible or can't be done simply because they're less than easy to do and less than likely to work out. It still can. And, for that reason, I don't think it should be a factor, the difficulty of stealth living, in whether women should pursue the option anymore than I think not having enough money should prevent you from applying to an expensive college. If you're not going to apply, it should be because the school isn't right for you.

You can live a well balanced and comfortable life and now that you're not only full time but close to having your surgery, transition and being trans will hopefully become something you don't even have to think about very often if at all.

You very well can. Keep your business exactly that, your business. Some people will likely find out, but it'll probably be because you told them

I honestly think a sense of woman hood comes from within. I'm under 18 and pre-everything, I rarely think about being trans when socializing now. You'll find something else to obsess over, sooner or later.

That's all I ever wanted. I just wanna move past the "I'm trans" life, and move into the I'm female life.

I've thought about stealth, wished for it, but honestly, I don't think it's what I really want, I just want being out to not be scary.

Who to tell what to and when. But, honestly, if you're ever around people you'd be afraid to let know you're trans, they aren't people you want in your life. They might be temporary friends, at best, but try and find higher quality people... and, by extension, be a high quality girl

[~Nova~]

I've thought about stealth, wished for it, but honestly, I don't think it's what I really want, I just want being out to not be scary.

I know that feeling all to well. Your time will come, be patient.

Autumn

[JJ]

I have realized that I don't so much mind people knowing as I mind telling them.

I hate explaining the whole thing. And finding myself saying-"It's not about sex or sexual preferences. It's about gender" again. Only to be asked once more if I am gay or lesbian. Sigh.

I've considered having a pamphlet about my transition printed up with a pop quiz on the back and just handing them out.

Okay, not really. But I'm tempted.

johnny

[Guest Robin Winter]

I have realized that I don't so much mind people knowing as I mind telling them.

I hate explaining the whole thing. And finding myself saying-"It's not about sex or sexual preferences. It's about gender" again. Only to be asked once more if I am gay or lesbian. Sigh.

I've considered having a pamphlet about my transition printed up with a pop quiz on the back and just handing them out.

Okay, not really. But I'm tempted.

johnny

Haha, if you do that, I want copies, so make it generic enough to work for me

[MackenzieB]

6'2 and broad shouldered. I'm about as stealthy as John Lithgow in the Garp movie.