Regional variations?

[Guest LottieZero]

Hi all,

I thought I'd bring up a topic that doesn't seem to be talked about much when it comes to voice retraining (particularly MtF, because that's the kind I have personal experience of )... the thing about speech patterns not being the same everywhere, which I think is actually a kind of important point!

For instance, I'm sure I've read on some sites that saying "may I..." instead of "can I..." or more 'direct' methods of asking things is more feminine, but when was the last time you heard a Scottish person of any gender say "may I"? They'd stick out like a sore thumb! (You'd tend to use "could I..." or "would you mind if I..." instead. I don't know why... linguistic variation is an odd thing.) I'd just worry that a more socially isolated trans woman might try and learn speech patterns that sound out of place, and that they'd end up sounding a little aloof...

Certain vocabulary things specific to the UK and Ireland tend to get forgotten about, too, when they're quite important if you've got an accent from these islands. For instance, "alright?" as a greeting being considered masculine, and "hiya!" as a greeting being considered feminine... and the use of "mate" being generally more of a male thing (but not so much amongst young people in the south of England, seemingly).

Then, of course, there's the issue of the "sing-song" voice, which isn't prevalent everywhere, regardless of what those voice tip sites might imply. It is prevalent where I come from, but isn't where I live now, and that sort of voice is mostly associated with Inverness and the Highlands in general. Then, of course, there's that distinctive modulation that people from the West of Scotland and Northern Ireland have, which is different again! (It's present in male and female voices but is maybe slightly more pronounced for women. Only slightly, though, IMO.) Still, I don't think it's the sort of thing that will out you, so I suppose it's a matter of personal preference whether you change your method of speaking like that or not...

Anyway, where was I going with this? I think it would be good if there was a sort of wiki or a database of some sort that described these variations, but until then... it'd be interesting to hear if there are any variations like this where you come from

[Carolyn Marie]

Lottie, you make some excellent points in your post. Thank you!

I completely agree that much of the advice in self help CD's and videos is specific to American speech patterns, and more specifically, to what I consider to be American midwest or western dialects. Speech from the northeast or south, or northern plains (think Minnesota) would definitely be different. Foreign languages would be even farther afield in the differences between female and male speech idiosyncrasies.

The key to success, then, is to carefully listen to female (or male, for FtM's) speech patterns wherever you are and learn those. I include things like inflections, tone, word usage, and even hand gestures and body language. There is no reason to try to adopt Americanisms when you would just stand out more among your peers. The goal is to blend in, and the means to do that will vary in every country, and in different regions within countries. One size does not fit all.

Very good thread, hon.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest LottieZero]

Hi Carolyn Marie,

That's exactly what I mean Observing the people around you is a great way to pick up appropriate speech patterns for your gender and location. Even just going to a coffee shop and eavesdropping could really help IMO!

*hugs back*

[Guest musicalice]

Even just going to a coffee shop and eavesdropping could really help IMO!

That sounds like a good idea! I've been observing whenever I've been out in shopping centres, but I want to try that too now

And yes... I know a woman who has the most lovely Morningside accent ever. I'd love to be able to speak like that, but Welsh people generally don't Thing is, I don't know what my accent is! I come from Wales, but I never really sounded welsh, ever. I'm finding I have to really think about that as I practice. I do seem to sound a little... posher?... when I practice :\ Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but it's not how I usually talk...

[Guest LottieZero]

Even just going to a coffee shop and eavesdropping could really help IMO!

That sounds like a good idea! I've been observing whenever I've been out in shopping centres, but I want to try that too now

And yes... I know a woman who has the most lovely Morningside accent ever. I'd love to be able to speak like that, but Welsh people generally don't Thing is, I don't know what my accent is! I come from Wales, but I never really sounded welsh, ever. I'm finding I have to really think about that as I practice. I do seem to sound a little... posher?... when I practice :\ Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but it's not how I usually talk...

Morningside? Very pan-loaf My accent's a bit funny these days... sort of a mix of Borders, Aberdonian and generic Scottish... people can never tell where I'm from unless they're from where I'm from! I've been assumed to be from Banchory, Caithness, Inverness, and various other places... none of which are remotely near my home town

Welsh people can easily sound nice! (And most do...) I'm not sure what'll be causing you to talk posher than normal, though... whereabouts in Wales are you? Maybe it's just because you're not as comfortable with your new voice as you are with your old one, but if that's the case, that'll soon change

[Guest Stormrider2112]

Lottie, you make some excellent points in your post. Thank you!

I completely agree that much of the advice in self help CD's and videos is specific to American speech patterns, and more specifically, to what I consider to be American midwest or western dialects. Speech from the northeast or south, or northern plains (think Minnesota) would definitely be different. Foreign languages would be even farther afield in the differences between female and male speech idiosyncrasies.

The key to success, then, is to carefully listen to female (or male, for FtM's) speech patterns wherever you are and learn those. I include things like inflections, tone, word usage, and even hand gestures and body language. There is no reason to try to adopt Americanisms when you would just stand out more among your peers. The goal is to blend in, and the means to do that will vary in every country, and in different regions within countries. One size does not fit all.

Very good thread, hon.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

Yeah, in the US, "Mid-Western" is the de fecto "American" accent and word choice. Like others have said, your best bet is watch for/listen to local mannerisms and phrasing. I can guarantee Downeast Maine accents/mannerisms/phrasing won't fly in the UK (ayuh!) or my French-Canadian aunts' and uncles' phrasing would have you stand out like a sore thumb in New York Oh how my degree in linguistics may come to be an aid when I start to transition =D And my dad said it wouldn't amount to anything!