"The Well of Loneliness": Lesbian Or FTM?

[Guest Roux]

Has anyone read The Well of Loneliness by Radclyffe Hall? Do you think it's a lesbian story or a FTM story?

It was written in the 1920s, and it's about a wealthy Englishwoman named Stephen. (Her dad had wanted a boy, and gave her a boy's name.) Stephen grew up believing that she should have been born male--wearing male fashions, doing male things, etc--and eventually realizes that she's attracted to women, not to men. But the novel has always been described as a groundbreaking (and now a classic) work of lesbian fiction, not transgender fiction.

Yeah, the notion of "transgender" people hadn't really formed in the 1920s; sexologists were talking about "sexual inversion," which was described as (in Stephen's case) a female-bodied person with a male soul, who loves other female-bodied people. Therefore, when it was written, Stephen was considered a lesbian. But it's still being called a lesbian story. I wonder if maybe it should be called a FTM transgender story instead?

The author was a female-bodied "sexual invert" her(him?)self who called himself John. John fell in love with a married singer, and when the singer's husband died they moved in together. Scandalous! There are some really great photographs of Radclyffe Hall online if you want to see them. He defintely passes as male. And has some really neat clothes. =)

[Guest Lani]

Has anyone read The Well of Loneliness by Radclyffe Hall? Do you think it's a lesbian story or a FTM story?

It was written in the 1920s, and it's about a wealthy Englishwoman named Stephen. (Her dad had wanted a boy, and gave her a boy's name.) Stephen grew up believing that she should have been born male--wearing male fashions, doing male things, etc--and eventually realizes that she's attracted to women, not to men. But the novel has always been described as a groundbreaking (and now a classic) work of lesbian fiction, not transgender fiction.

Yeah, the notion of "transgender" people hadn't really formed in the 1920s; sexologists were talking about "sexual inversion," which was described as (in Stephen's case) a female-bodied person with a male soul, who loves other female-bodied people. Therefore, when it was written, Stephen was considered a lesbian. But it's still being called a lesbian story. I wonder if maybe it should be called a FTM transgender story instead?

The author was a female-bodied "sexual invert" her(him?)self who called himself John. John fell in love with a married singer, and when the singer's husband died they moved in together. Scandalous! There are some really great photographs of Radclyffe Hall online if you want to see them. He defintely passes as male. And has some really neat clothes. =)

Does it really matter what the book is labaled as? Labels mean NOTHING at the "end of the day"...

[Guest ImperfectDandy]

Oooh, sounds pretty interesting! I'll have to read it and get back to you, I think. Since my days as a Literature student, I've loved debating the cultural/historical context & significance of novels XD

But from what you've written, sounds more FTM than lesbian to me; I mean, if she believed she should have been a male, then surely...? And the sex inversion/female body with a male soul pretty much sounds FTM too

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Roux:

Hey, this is TREMENDOUSLY interesting! Thanks so much to you for posting this. Though I have not read this work, now I positively must! Your description has intrigued me immensely. So, time to spend some money at www.amazon.com yet again. That place has made a bundle off of me, sigh, and will continue to do so!

I would never have known about this except for your description of it here. Again, thank you! This sounds like a must-read tome.

Peace Lacey

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Oh this can get confusing!

It is a pretty clear that Trans people experience gender dysphoria (and most, if not all, experience Body Dysphoria. )

However ... some Lesbians experience some degree of gender dyshporia or body dyphoria.

Now .. I read somewhere ... Sigh .. I think it was in my partner's old Sociology Book .... I can't remember .. Anyway, it was rather small study but it tracked something like 16 gender-variant girls and found that somehting like 8 of them grew up to lesbian and one participant was trans .. something like that.

Anyway .. The study concluded that gender non-conformity was the clearest "marker" for homosexuality.

I'll try to find the book ... no promises but I will try.

Clearly the article missed some major details ... like what about the 40% of the tomboys who are "straight" and "cis." How many lesbians were dainty and liked to wear pretty little dresses and stuff like that??

My personal feeling is that many lesbians were tomboys and some may even experience (or have expereinced) some level of gender/body dysphoria but that the degree of this experience is usually quite faint compared ot the experience of trans men.

I personally feel that there is a whole spectrum of gender. Many people experience polarized feelings of gender and for them, matching thier bodies with their birth sex has never been an issue and these peope, are called "cis". Or for trans people who expereince a very claer sense of binary gender, it is a certain path to transtion... there is no question of "Who am I" they know they are in the wrong body.

However, I think that there are also many people, like me, who are somewhere in the midle section of this gender spectrum ... we might be 40-70% .. we have many experiences, variations of gender that do not fit the gender binary.

Me, I get misgendered by trans men all of the time ... I am commonly seen as a trans man. Most men that I have met who are trans came out to me because they were so sure that I was trans like them. We share so much in common that it is opften hard for them to bleive that I am not trans and soemtimes they seem convinced that I am in denial and persist to "persuade" me. We all know that gender can not be pulled in this way ... and that this type of thing is quite painful.

The big differnce between me and trans men is NOT my appearance, not my history, not even my surgeries ( double mastectomy, hysterectomy, right oopherectomy) or past feelings of severe body dysphoria (that were resolved by surgery) , not even some feelings of gender dysphoria that I still expereince ... ( somethimes I think that my life may have been easier if I could have matched by body in manner of expected gender.)

The big difference between my expereince as a legally female androgyne and that of a trans man is that I have no desire to be a man ... I do not wish to adopt the social expectations of being a man, I do not wish to deal with Testosterone, I do not wish to have more body hair, ( I have plenty) I do not wish to change my voice, I definitely do not want a penis ... I am happy with my female genetalia and (so is my partner. ) I like my "femine: characterists and do not wish to change them . if anythign I would like to explore this side of me in the ways that feel right for me.

So, I am something else ... a different kind of person ... I am androgyne. Happliy so.

The book ... I never liked the title ... I do think that this book is just one example of how butch lesbians have been around for a very long time and how some of these woemn's experiences may have some similarities with Trans men.

Interesting topic.

Best to All,

JB

[Guest Juniper Blue]

I will add one thing ... it is impossible to know if this fictious character, Stephan, was truly lesbian or trans ... the writer ... sounds like Billy Tipton the Jazz musician who lived as man ... the writer, John was probably trans before there was a clear understandign of waht this meant. But the sotry .. the experiences of Stephen ... these are experiences that are shared by many women who wish to be free of the contraints and oppression that is gender based and tied to one's anatomy.

Maybe two coioes are in order .. one fo rthe trans secion an done for the lesbian section.

No three ... one for the human section.

Hugs,

Juniper