Dealing With/Coming Out to Potential Employers

[KieranD]

This has been a long running problem with me. I currently do some baby sitting which doesn't pay much. It's not something I want to do as a career, or long term. It gets me a couple bucks and helps me pay the bills.

I haven't had my name changed as it's too expensive and the people I live with (since I live here rent free) aren't supportive.

I've gone through the second round of interviews for the position I applied for, and they mentioned a background check which I know I would have to provide my legal name for. I'm guessing that I'll tell them I'm trans when they bring up a background check or after I'm given a job offer. If they have any problems with me using my preferred name, pronouns, or anything like that I'm not going to take the job.

The issue is, I don't know if I'm going about coming out to potential employers correctly, or in the ideal way to give the best result. So far it hasn't worked...sadly. What's the best way to go about coming out to employers? What's the ideal way to look for a job that will have the best result for me?

[Carolyn Marie]

Kieran, unfortunately, I don't think there is an ideal situation. it depends on the employer and their policies, and it depends on how you present yourself.

Obviously, if you haven't had your name legally changed, you have to fill out the app with your birth name, because if you don't, and they hire you, and later find out, its grounds for immediate dismissal. If they ask to see your SS card, they will find out anyway. So the only way to get hired as you, it seems to me, is to tell them what's going on during your interview. Be polite, explain where you are in your transition, explain that you will get your name changed as soon as possible, and ask them if they would consider using your preferred name in the meantime on everything except your payroll docs. That's probably the best you can do.

You have the option of getting hired as the old you, but I realize that you may find that very awkward and distasteful. It all depends on how badly you want that job.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

I have said this before to all TG people, first item is to convince the employer that you and you alone of all applicants for his position have the specific job competencies and technical skills, and the purely human skills to co-operate and enhance the willingness of a work team so that they will perform at or above the level he needs and or expects. Whoever or whatever presentation you want to use to accomplish that goal that works is the right one. The first part of the presentation is the ability to talk about the job, and not your gender issues.

After you have convinced the employer that you are the ideal candidate for getting the job done, then you can work on the tiny details of what name or what pants to wear when you go to work.

[Carolyn Marie]

Excellent advice, Vicky. Sorry I left out that tiny detail.

Carolyn Marie

[KieranD]

Well, the last interview I went on I went with all of my legal info (however, I showed up in men's business attire). I did the interview, got a job offer then asked about discrimination policies. I explained that I was trans and would prefer to be called by a preferred name which I wanted on my ID if names were on ID tags, preferred pronouns, and using a bathroom that was more appropriate. I was told that the hiring person would need to talk to an HR rep first. I got a call back a few days later from the hiring person with the HR person in the room with her. They were whispering while I was on the phone. I brought up the same questions I brought up when I was offered the position and was told "no" to everything. I was told that my ID would have the name I'm hired as (meaning if I got my name changed it wouldn't change on my ID). I was told that coworkers and supervisors didn't have to call me the preferred name and that if I was harassed about it they would not be reprimanded at all. I turned their offer down.

Most of the positions I'm "applying" for are resume+cover letter (or at times just a resume) and with that, I just have first legal initial "preferred first name" last name as my name. With this, my name doesn't really come up into question.

I present myself as my preferred gender (and ask to be treated as my "Default gender") because that's what I need in order to function.

It should also be noted that I first started presenting as I identify and having a "default gender" for many years, and I've been on hormones for a good long while. Being seen as the gender I was assigned at birth (and cis/gender normative) is totally impossible at this point.

[Guest chngnwnd]

Talk to a civil rights group. The EEOC ruling that transgendered individuals are protected under title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act may be applicable. The refusal of the employer to accomodate you may be a violation of this regulation.

hugs

Bobbi

[KieranD]

Talk to a civil rights group. The EEOC ruling that transgendered individuals are protected under title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act may be applicable. The refusal of the employer to accomodate you may be a violation of this regulation.

hugs

Bobbi

It's not.

[Guest SonadoraXVX]

Each state has different protections, like for example California, its written in the law books that protection of gender is to be accomodated. This has been interpreted as transitioning from one gender to the other. Best thing to do, is 1) know what the laws are in your state? 2) talk to other tg people about your situation, 3) investigate the former 2 questions for awhile, even if it means 6 months or more, to see how other transgender people are being treated in that respective state. Finally 4) if that state is crappy, move to another state, where tg people are known to be protected.

My 2 cents.

[KieranD]

Each state has different protections, like for example California, its written in the law books that protection of gender is to be accomodated. This has been interpreted as transitioning from one gender to the other. Best thing to do, is 1) know what the laws are in your state? 2) talk to other tg people about your situation, 3) investigate the former 2 questions for awhile, even if it means 6 months or more, to see how other transgender people are being treated in that respective state. Finally 4) if that state is crappy, move to another state, where tg people are known to be protected.

My 2 cents.

1. My state does not have any anti-discrimination laws for trans people. My county also does not have any anti-discrimination laws for trans people.

2. This is why I'm asking here. I know some trans people in my state but they live in cities and counties that do have trans protections.

3. I've been unemployed since December. It's not a possibility.

4. I can't move if I don't have money and I can't be certain that employers would accommodate for the basic stuff. If I move my living expenses would go way up.

I'd also like to point out that trans discrimination laws are generally like putting a band aid on a bullet wound to the chest. If you are a generally gender conforming and are able to get some documents changed you likely won't be bothered about anything if in a protected area. If you are (let's say) a trans woman who isn't on hormones, don't do make up or dress feminine because that's your preference then you'll likely face discrimination. This also is true for people who have non-binary genders. If you're genderqueer (for example) and want to be called by a set or pronouns other than he/him/his or she/her/hers you're likely not going to get treated properly.

[Charlize]

Kieran,

I am generally against the use of the law unless necessary and then it generally creates bad feelings and resentments that make many unhappy folks regardless of the outcome.

I think that perhaps as you are mtf you should apply for the job as a woman not in a male business suit. You could wear a female business suit instead.

It has seemed to me that the paperwork is an easier part of the equation than the presentation when you are being hired. The employer will see what they are going to get and not have to imagine it. Of course this may seem wrong. If they knew you after years of work it really would be but now your being honest ,out there and who they will be living and working with. An explanation of where you are in transition would then be the only thing required.

Hugs, Charlie

[KieranD]

Kieran,

I am generally against the use of the law unless necessary and then it generally creates bad feelings and resentments that make many unhappy folks regardless of the outcome.

I think that perhaps as you are mtf you should apply for the job as a woman not in a male business suit. You could wear a female business suit instead.

It has seemed to me that the paperwork is an easier part of the equation than the presentation when you are being hired. The employer will see what they are going to get and not have to imagine it. Of course this may seem wrong. If they knew you after years of work it really would be but now your being honest ,out there and who they will be living and working with. An explanation of where you are in transition would then be the only thing required.

Hugs, Charlie

I'm not a trans woman. I was just giving a few examples of situations where the law isn't going to protect you. I am genderqueer which is part of my situation. In general I'm willing to sacrifice some parts of who I am in order to get a job or function in everyday life because I understand the world is incredibly binarist.

When I go to an interview or anything I dress as my default gender. When I go out in general I use the restroom of my default gender (well, I'm usually read as the gender I don't want to be seen as so in that way I end up using the bathroom I don't want to use out of safety issues).

[Guest DanD]

LOL oh vicki you sure cracked me up -you sure have a way with small talk!

Thats the way I handled it. i went to the interview and thought i did well then we got tot he ending and he wss saying okay then, we'll just have to do a background check and you should hear from us soon.

and i thought, if they do a background check (an actual credit/background check) theyre going to see this old name...and a credit counselor told me, when they see a different name pop up they dont care what the name iis or was, they only see deception, and possible identity fraud.

well those things are not what would help you get hired anywhere, so I decided to take my chances. then interview went well, so then i said, well, i wanted to mention something about that, and its not something i would prefer to have to bring up, but if you do a proper background check on me it would come up, and i dont want you to think there's any funny business going on with me, but i used to be female and i had a nother name back then, and it was.. and it was done all in a proper legal manner, an attorney handled it for me, and it was approved and done at the county couthouse, so, its on record there. but for obvious reasons i dont like to go around telling people I dont know about that stuff, becuase not everyone is so nice about some things.

But that i hoped it wouldnt keep them from hiring me based only on that.

and i dont know if he's ever heard that before, but he could tell it was uncomfortable for me to say, but id just as soon out myself than get outed and appear dishonest. thats one of those things about being trans that really stinks you know. otherwise i wouldnt have any reason to lie to people about anything.

just like if i like some girl, you know, id rather just get it over with and tell her early on than wait long and longer, it only gets harder todo then, and then they get more angry about it maybe,because you took so long to tell them. sometimes you just have to stand naked in the wind and hope they dont throw darts at you.

in the case here, you dont have a name change yet, but id you cant stand the pronouns and the old name then you'll have to out yourself, or they wont even get a background check on you to fly, they simply wont find you. thats pretty bad.

you dont have to prove youre the only human who can handle the job.

since it sounds like you dont have a particular thing in mind, just something with some $$$ attached to it.. just make a nice impression as a human in the interview, first, talk nice, act nice, look nice enough, be clean, pay attention..that counts for a lot i would say, aside from other things that might help.

and once you get some $$$ coming in you'll probably feel alot better about yourself and things too..and you can get the name change done sometime.

if youre living with someone who isnt making you pay them since youre broke, remember to give them something when you can, and try to help out in other ways..so you dont seem like a user, because youre not. and they wont feel so bad sometimes, because its hard to pay bills and things these days. someone took me in when i was unable to get a place, and that was truly a godsend at the time.

a guy i know who is broke basicly, his case manager found a law student to help do th name change pro bono for them, and case management paid for some of it,(the notices punlications), and they were able to file it enforma paperis (thats a waiver from a judge on the court costs) so it was done very cheaply, as far as the court order goes. after that you have to send out copies of the court order to get IDs changed over and stuff. so, if you look into things, you might some ways to get it done sooner rather than later if its that important to you.

just a few thoughts about it.

[KieranD]

DanD the total costs for the name change with a waiver for me is going to be somewhere between $100-$200. I can fill out the forms and everything on my own, no need for lawyers but I don't have a birth certificate, I would need a new copy of my ID and SS. That also includes the costs for legal notices.

I feel alright now. I'd feel super awesome and fantastic if I got a great job that pays well that I enjoy and can work as me. My living situation is that I still live with my parents who are not accepting but aren't the type to throw me out (yet). They ignore it and I tolerate it because my head goes "well, at least they're letting me stay here rent free." I pay for my own phone, car insurance, gas, and other expenses that are specific to me. I clean around the house, cook, wash dishes, etc. What ever I can to show I have worth.

I feel like I'll be out no matter what I say or do on an interview. I don't really get seen as cis at all.

[KieranD]

I just got the chance to look at the break down of hours and calculated ho much money it would cost to get to all these different locations. It turns out I would only be making about $3,600 a year and half of that would be going to transportation (they told me originally that I'd be getting reimbursed to travel to the furthest location now I'm being told I'm just getting paid for tolls). So, it's really going to end up being like $1400 a year. That's less than what a lot of people make in a month! I also applied to the halloween store. I figured that could get me some money for something seasonal.