How often do you drink?

[Guest RainbowGoth98]

Courtney,

No one is passing judgement on you. How is someone who is 14 able to obtain alcohol in the first place?

Alcohol has much more damaging effects on younger people than adults.

Carolyn was just trying to help you. She was not judging you.

Brenda

I'm sorry, :/ all high school students drink...

[MaryEllen]

I'm sorry, :/ all high school students drink...

I am quite sure that is not true. I'm sure that the majority of high school students are mature enough to act responsibly.

MaryEllen

[Guest angels wings]

Not all high school students drink there is some who choose not to and then there are some due to peer pressures that end up doing so .

Courtney no one is judging we as a family are concerned for you as the choices you make now will have a great impact for your future .

Angel

[Guest Robin Winter]

Courtney,

No one is passing judgement on you. How is someone who is 14 able to obtain alcohol in the first place?

Alcohol has much more damaging effects on younger people than adults.

Carolyn was just trying to help you. She was not judging you.

Brenda

I'm sorry, :/ all high school students drink...

There is a reason that there is an age limit for alcohol, and in my opinion the limit is still too low.... http://speakuplflb.o...rink-insert.pdf

Alcohol affects the brain of minors differently than fully developed adults, NOT in a good way. You are literally drinking yourself stupid, and worse.

[Guest RainbowGoth98]

I'm sorry, :/ all high school students drink...

I am quite sure that is not true. I'm sure that the majority of high school students are mature enough to act responsibly.

MaryEllen

No; they're mostly stupid, ignorant, and users. Atleast that's how it is at my school.

[MaryEllen]

Perhaps you should change schools. I sure wouldn't want to hang around with a bunch of stupid, ignorant users. Unless of course, you enjoy that kind of atmosphere.

MaryEllen

[Guest Sentience]

I feel there is a definite culture gap between North America and Europe when it comes to drink. For your information in Scotland, England Ireland and Wales the legal drinking age at home is 5. (Let me spell that. FIVE). Europeans are so much more relaxed about drink; don't demonise it. My son and daughter hated going to the USA on holiday aged 18 and becoming babies again, unable to have an alcoholic drink whereas they could go to Spain, France, Italy etc in their early teens and have wine and beer. They were alert to the fact also that young Americans could drive at 16, devour sugar and fat till they were so utterly massively obese they could clog up Walmart with their enormous wobbling bodies while they sat in their in-store electric blubber transporters loading them with cakes and ice cream , with the option of buying semi- automatic weapons (absolutely not a problem in the USA: just used for shooting pesky varmints)..... but have a Bud Lite? Hell no!!

[Guest Robin Winter]

For the record, I disagree with all that too, and some of those things you listed are part of the reason why I think the drinking age is too low.

[MaryEllen]

I agree with Shilo. Your insulting remarks toward North Americans are not appreciated.

MaryEllen

[Charlize]

I drank as a 14 year old in Europe. Some of my first experiences of making a fool of myself were in the streets of Reims, France as a student without parental restraints. When i came home i drank in secret despite the drinking age. I was clever enough to find a source if i wanted it. We had wine at our home and my parents made an attempt to teach us how to drink responsibly. That obviously didn't work in my case. I am an alcoholic and would be dead from that disease if i hadn't gotten help after realizing how powerless i had become. I think our drinking age is just fine where it is. Maybe European kids can't find a drink here but our kids do too often. Its a hard thing to stop just like the desire for sweets or fatty fast foods. I certainly agree with Mary Ellen that we should not throw aspersions at the cultures of our fellows. We may feel justified but that isn't our purpose here especially in a topic area such as this where the hope is to help other folks who might need help, not to start a useless fight.

Hugs,

Charlie

[Guest Gregg Jameson]

A Warm Hello to ALL,

I want to acknowledge the fact that some people can drink responsibly.

I have approx. 4-6 microbrews a year.

Yet, my family is heavily burdened with rampant active alcoholism.

I have watched alchohol destroy so many lives!

I have lost several relatives to alcohol-related deaths, including two brothers and several cousins.

Both men and women in my family are severely affected.

I am the "outcast" because I won't "party 'til I puke" along with them.

I don't preach abstinence at all. They just do not like a non-drinker present when they are all falling down and passing out...and more. I hear all about their children, their 8-16 y.o. children steadying their walk while escorting them in from vehicles and putting them to bed, etc. They are using their 16 y.o. children as designated drivers.

I cannot believe the total lack of insight involved. I just cannot believe it. We have all seen so very many family tragedies, all due clearly to the abuse of alcohol; yet, they will not stop (or even cut back) for anything/anyone. Incredibly sad. I truly feel for their children. I have watched 12 of 16 neices and nephews all follow in the very same path. (And now their children are also watching it all.)

Congrats to all whom have had a problem with drinking and have worked on this. I know, I do know, how hard it can be to stay sober and to work a program.

I have attended the recovery programs as an Adult Child of Alcoholics, also Alanon for many years...and have been into AA meetings with many good friends of mine.. in support of them and to also gain an understanding of what their own journey is like for them. I am so very lucky I am not addicted and do not crave any alcohol or other substances. Wow. So lucky!

Love to ALL,

Brad

[Guest Sentience]

With all due respect to North Americans who have been offended by my comments, by repeated implication that the your drinking age restraints are right, you are clearly asserting that Europe is wrong; aspersions are indeed being thrown at other cultures. What I was alluding too were the sanctimonious double standards. Obesity is a killler; an "infectious" disease: it is often not difficult to spot the child of a morbidly obese parent. For balance perhaps there should be a food "abuse" forum, and by your arbitary and variable definitions of "abuse" are you not yourselves being offensive?

Abundantly obvious however is that I don't belong here. Self righteous bullying and witch hunts I can do without.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

OK, let's simmer down folks. Stereotypes are never good for anyone.

Brenda

[Michelle 2010]

Wow, guess I need to stop by here more often , went from sleepy to "heated" pretty quickly. Never posted here since I don't drink. I don't have a problem with alcohol btw, just alcoholism

Personally, I don't extrapolate from American's taking ownership of underage drinking issues to self righteously proclaiming standards for other countries, nor do I see that in the posts made here. I don't see disrespect to the standards of others. In the only post regarding experience drinking on the continent, the poster took personal responsibility for his behaviors.

I do, however, have experience witnessing American teenagers driving while illegally drunk out of their minds, killing and maiming themselves, their friends, and innocents in other cars they collide with. Irresponsible consumption is a real problem in America. I have no idea what the rates of Alcoholism is on the other side of the pond, however, it certainly destroys many young peoples lives here, particularly for driving drunk.

But the topic wasn't drinking laws America vs. the World... was it...?

Perhaps it would make a good stand alone topic here in this subforum, including a debate of whether early childhood drinking promotes responsibility or alcoholism... If someone feels strongly they have the right to start a thread, assuming other posters are treated with respect.

Michelle

[MaryEllen]

I quite agree, Brenda. Throwing insults and stereotyping are not conducive to having a rationale discourse about anything. Our Scottish friend seems to harbor a dislike toward North Americans in general. I do hope that's not indicative of Europe as a whole. That would be quite distressing and should it be true then perhaps we should all consider undertaking an attitude adjustment. Perhaps we should consider reshaping our image. I do have to wonder, though, why anyone who has such a low regard for American customs and standards would even want to be a member of a North American based website.

MaryEllen

[Charlize]

If i remember correctly the topic here is "how often do you drink".

I do my best not to drink at all. I lost my life to drink. It almost killed me and still might. I am powerless over my intake. I can't have one as it will quickly destroy my life. If i could be a social drinker i would be. I'd love to have a beer or glass of wine with dinner but somewhere the addiction took me. I crossed some sort of invisible line. I remember when i had that horrible realization but i don't know when it happened. Alcoholism snuck up on me. I didn't go looking for it.

As i mentioned earlier there is a great post pinned in the alcohol forum with some questions to find out if maybe someone has stepped over the line.

[JJ]

We need perhaps to look at things from a slightly different angle. We are in a real sense talking apples and oranges. People by nature see the world through the filter and cultural context of their own experiences in their own environment. In the US we have a different history which created different values and reactions. Not better or worse but different. Many retailers and political endeavors have failed because they failed to take into account the impact of cultural context on human behavior as it varies from country to country. Even things as basic as music and humor are impacted. With hits here being rejected abroad and visa versa. Sure we do share a great deal but we also differ significantly.

In Europe and the UK for most of their history alcohol was the only safe or even possible thing to drink. That caused different attitudes and views to develop here where it was possible to drink water and where we also have mixed in a genetic component from a native population that cannot by and large tolerate alcohol without serious repercussions. Not saying all Native Americans are by definition alcoholics but that the predisposition is very large. The stats and science are out there if you want to research them. Nor am I saying that Native Americans are the only ones here with alcohol problems and alcoholic predisposition. Not by any means. We also have a much more volatile history in regard to alcohol use with two conflicting attitudes toward alcohol use running through American culture. One part condemns any use and another sees it as a part of living and teen drinking as a rite of passage. Good or ill these ideas are a fact of our culture we are struggling to come to terms with as modern technology has made teen drinking more deadly than when it was a matter of falling out of a buggy rather than wiping out not only the teens involved but others in vehicles that are unfortunate enough to be on the road with them. Most of the people in this country live where there is no public transportation and you have a situation where someone relatively inexperienced driving has to be behind the wheel if they decide to go to a party and drink.

I am not against drinking for those who can handle it. Those with no predisposition to alcoholism. Those who have the maturity and responsibility to stop before judgment is too clouded. My question is how do we know? My life has been devastatingly affected by alcoholics. I have also seen far too many good people die from it's effects-including my mother and ex-husband. My ex's grandfather was also hit and killed by a drunk driver. My life was made a living hell by the alcoholics in my family and in some cases still is. My son-in law and both my sisters are alcoholics as was my mother.. It was no less a hell for them either.

It is not a simple situation and there are no simple solutions. I think and hope we are beginning to move away from some of our cultural views of drinking and the necessity to do so to be seen as part of the group or having fun. it won't come easy or fast but I hope it will come.

I wonder how many lives it is worth so those people who are not affected can drink early? Because here the consequences are measured in human lives all too often.

I take a drink maybe twice a year and my reaction to alcohol is altering physically which is a sign that I should no longer even do that. Alcohol makes me feel good but for me and my history it is not worth the risk. The next drink may be the one too many for me. So I don't plan to drink again. Partly because I really want to to drink-more with each one I have.

Johnny

[Guest Robin Winter]

With all due respect to North Americans who have been offended by my comments, by repeated implication that the your drinking age restraints are right, you are clearly asserting that Europe is wrong; aspersions are indeed being thrown at other cultures. What I was alluding too were the sanctimonious double standards. Obesity is a killler; an "infectious" disease: it is often not difficult to spot the child of a morbidly obese parent. For balance perhaps there should be a food "abuse" forum, and by your arbitary and variable definitions of "abuse" are you not yourselves being offensive?

Abundantly obvious however is that I don't belong here. Self righteous bullying and witch hunts I can do without.

I have no double standards. You clearly misunderstood, since I said that I also agree that obesity and overeating are an equally serious issue. I didn't bring culture into it at all, you did. I said I think all drinking age limits are too low, ALL OF THEM. And for the record, there are "forums", support groups, for overeaters( i.e. http://www.oa.org/). And also for the record, it's been proven that alcohol is damaging to minors, so I have an issue with anyone that would allow their children to drink it, regardless of culture.

I have lost many friends and family members to alcohol, it's not something to be "relaxed" about.

I think you must be out looking for a bully if you found one in me...

[Guest Robin Winter]

http://www.activeeur...g_Europeans.pdf

-There is a relationship between alcohol use and mental health problems

-Under-age alcohol use is associated with academic failure, illicit drug use, tobacco use and a range of harmful physical effects

from hangovers to poisoning

-Early alcohol use has long-lasting consequences. People who begin using alcohol before the age of 15 are 4 times more likely

to develop alcohol addiction at some point in their lives compared to those who use alcohol for the first time at the age of

20 or older

-Under-age alcohol use is more likely to kill young people than all illegal drugs combined

-89% of Europeans think that selling and serving alcohol to young people under the age of 18 should be banned

-77% of Europeans support a ban of alcohol advertising targeting young people

[Charlize]

AA tries to teach us the restraint of tongue and pen. This topic is " how much do you drink". Can we please stay on topic. This area of the forum is here to help people with a drinking problem. The topic is a good one because it can allow us to perhaps realize if we have a problem or not. Can we please keep that in mind and stay on topic. There are many other places to discuss the relative merits of drug or alcohol laws, customs and preferences. This is as stated a place for problems with alcohol use which is very common in our population here at Laura's

Hugs,

Charlie

[Guest Robin Winter]

I wasn't discussing the merits of laws as much as I was discussing the dangers of alcohol for young people, andI think it's well on topic given the propensity for people who start drinking at a young age to become alcoholics, but I believe I've said all I need to anyway.

[Carolyn Marie]

"Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody."

Mark Twain

[Michelle 2010]

That may be true CM, but,... just like for an alcoholic its the first glass of booze that gets you drunk,...with water You know that its the first glass that gets you wet?

Hugs

Michelle

[Guest Gregg Jameson]

[Guest Micha]

Used to drink 3-4 times a week, but by drink I mean 40 -48 oz of malt liquor, at twice the alcohol content of most beer. It wasn't the drink I wanted, it was the intoxication. Prolly put myself over the legal limit but I was still functional. This would be during the early part of weekdays, not on weekends - before my evening shift. Yeah. . .

Since las' November I've cut that to 2-3 times a month. Not too bad if I do say so myself. Another problem has arisen though, seems the few times I do drink, the harder the stuff hits me. Last December I got irate and stormed out the house, no jacket, socks or shoes, with the sole intent to lay across the tracks and await the next train. Last month I got so drunk I lost time. Not consciousness, more like memory. One minute I'm playing a video game, next thing I know I'm fighting with my wife in the closet, and I realize I've crossed a serious line and feel like there's no going back. So in my state of brilliance I took a razor to my wrist.

Some serious signs that I cannot handle this anymore.

Props to those of you who can, more props to those of you who have overcome this type of thing, and thanks for giving me some light.