we had another fight :(

[Guest Tamar]

Lu. I know you well. You and Nat have come a long way. You truly are an angel (probably why you get on so well with my Angel ),and Nat is extremely blessed to have you in her life.

This thread was started at an earlier, darker time, and hopefully has no relevance to now.You are both taking your relationship very seriously, and you both should be admired and respected for doing so.

Warm hugs for you and Nat.

[Guest LuAnne]

I'm not saying that someone necessarily said it in this thread but that feeling comes across in this one and other threads. Maybe I'm sensitive to that I don't know. All I do know is that I do love my husband very much and I'm trying my hardest to accept and adapt to this. I am not one for asking for help but for the sake of our marriage I have started therapy. Having other people like Angel to talk to is a godsend. I wish transition was easy on everyone but unfortunately its not. It is a highly emotional time and all we can do is deal with it the best way we can.

[Guest LuAnne]

Thank you Angel and Tamar. Your wisdom and friendship is very appreciated. Big hugs to you both xxxx

[Guest Tamar]

I don't think you're being particually sensitive Lu. It is a thought I have seen expressed by quite a few s/o's, and those transitioning should probably be aware of it. I myself have had to learn to keep my(general)opinions of males to myself, to avoid offence to any ftm transitioners. I think every one just needs to consider all parties involved before making any comments.

It is indeed an emotional time for all involved, and you are handling it remarkably well.

[Guest KimberlyF]

As Natalie's partner it is frustrating and hurtful reading the negative comments when it comes to couples having a hard time adapting to a major adjustment in their life. Natalie is not the only one transitioning, myself and our four kids have to as well. Would be so much better for Natalie to receive encouragement and hang in there comments rather than poor me comments and just end it now advice. I am entitled to my feelings in this as well. Just because I have a hard time with it somedays doesn't mean I don't love my husband any less or want to leave our marriage. I just need my feelings and thoughts heard and validated too. Marriage is a two way street and compromise needs to be two way street too. We still love each other and are working this the best we can. Transition takes time for all involved. Mentally as well as physically. After 11 years together one fight is not the end of the world.

I'm sorry. I noticed the same vib when I read this the other day and I agree.

It's prob normal for a support board to reach out to the person asking for support and it's easy to see things in a one-dimentional way when there is just the one participant.

You are 100% correct. If your marriage is going to last, or even if you expect to be loving friends after, then you have to be viewed as transitioning too. No decisions or actions should be made without a discussion with you.

We all have to make choices and accept responsibility for our own actions. For myself, I knew that if I were on an island and my actions could impact nobody else, I would take the pink pill and never think twice.

But this isn't just about me. I have a family. Keeping my marriage is something very important to me. I don't see how I could be happy without my wife. I know if she were to unexpectedly die, I would be devistated, but find a way to go on. But that is different than knowing that *we* weren't together.

She had to be honest with me. Her fears, her hopes, what she would be comfortable with or uncomfortable with, if there were any lines in the sand that were deal breakers for our marriage.

I told her things I wanted and things that were just non-negotiable. She understood that this isn't my choice and that any step I take is because I have to take it.

I don't think of my wife as a gatekeeper. Even if she said she just can't do it any more and it's transition or her, I know I do not have the right to ask this of her. Her staying is a gift.

[Guest Jennifer T]

LuAnne, it is nice to meet you. I've enjoyed reading your words here. Enjoyed in the sense that, like Angel Wings, your part in this issue needs to be heard; expounded upon. I believe that in any marriage that deals with this issue, you are most certainly correct; if one person moves to transition, both do.

I 'feel' the heartache in your words as you struggle to deal with this, probably because I know what my own wife is dealing with. And I do not feel it fair for me to ask her to accept all that I desire when she most certainly has a huge stake invested in who I am and what we are together. Thus, a terrible struggle for either of us.

For you and Nat I pray for the best.

[Guest nat1982]

Wow. This turned out to be alot more intense than i ever had imagined.

Lets set a few things straight here first, my sole intention, at the time of writing this, was to air my thoughts. I know we had a major fight but i also know that it isnt the end of my marrage to my wife either. I was simply reaching out for a bit of support because well i thought that this was what lauras was all about. I know everyone has the right to their own oppinion but at a time of need the last thing anyone needs is harshness and bitterness. All i wanted with this thread was to lift my spirits. No one has to really state the obvious nature of whats happeneing and what is going to happen as i am fully aware of whats in front of me.

I love my wife more than anything and i know in my heart i am not now or never going to throw that away. She has been through so much because of me and now well this i guess is the ultimate test for us. We are trying so hard to keep positive and move foward together but at times as everyone does, we trip and stumble and need a hand to get back to our feet. This is where i think lauras is a place for just that as well as many other things.

If i have upset anyone, i am truely sorry but all i wanted was help at the time. Lauras is a place for everyone to help each other and i dont think some of the things that are said here are in the best intentions of the person/people seeking help.

Anyway just my thoughts.

Natalie

[Guest Jennifer T]

Nat, in all fairness to each person involved in your thread here, everyone was trying to offer you the support they could in the best way they could. No one (and I believe this whole heartedly) intended anything less for you than the best they could give you. We all see this issue from a slightly different perspective and we have all had positives and negatives to deal with. There are no promises for any of us. Only a journey.

I wish you the best. Ibis e each person here does as well.

Peace

[Guest Tiger_Lilly]

As Natalie's partner it is frustrating and hurtful reading the negative comments when it comes to couples having a hard time adapting to a major adjustment in their life. Natalie is not the only one transitioning, myself and our four kids have to as well. Would be so much better for Natalie to receive encouragement and hang in there comments rather than poor me comments and just end it now advice. I am entitled to my feelings in this as well. Just because I have a hard time with it somedays doesn't mean I don't love my husband any less or want to leave our marriage. I just need my feelings and thoughts heard and validated too. Marriage is a two way street and compromise needs to be two way street too. We still love each other and are working this the best we can. Transition takes time for all involved. Mentally as well as physically. After 11 years together one fight is not the end of the world.

I am not sure I would consider myself to be a significant other considering my marriage will not survive transitioning, though we have decided to transform our relationship to more like "cousins" as mentioned by another poster and will remain living together raising our children. That being said, I have noticed (though not so much here at Laura's but other websites) a certain negative vibe towards spouses in particular if they are having problems. My ex vented on another site about a problem I was having and did mention that we were ending our marriage. The general vibe was my opinion was not worth more than some random stranger on the street (actually it was not a vibe - it was said outright). I thought to myself Oh my goodness???? Is that how things work? My feelings mean nothing? We are not enemies, I have not left, and I have no intentions of starting a war. But my happiness is just as important and I knew I would be miserable being in a marriage with a woman when I fell in love with and married a man. And yes I agree that we didn't ask for our situation any more than our transgender spouses. We have rough days, and ok days. We are not at good days yet, but I do think it is somewhere down the line. This week is going to be tough with all the father's day ads being shoved down my throat bringing up my feelings of what could have beens and whatnot.

So I know exactly how you are feeling, and I really do wish you and your spouse the best. It is a tough road filled with many bumps, but for you and for me and for many others facing the same situation the love still remains.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

That is a terrible thing to have to see someone telling your spouse, but I think its important to keep in mind a few things.. One of the purposes of these kinds of forums a safe place for people to vent feelings that they cannot do so safely elsewhere, and sometimes things are said that do indeed hurt. That is just the nature of things when dealing with something so deeply impactful in peoples lives people tend to get emotional. I would say the majority of time when advice like that is given it is not a personal attack on you, it is rooted in that person's own situation and their own experiences.

Some of us have been lucky and lost very little in our lives, but others have not been so lucky and their experiences are not so positive so there will naturally be some level of bitterness involved. Which is the reason you often hear the advise of "Be ready and willing to lose everything" and I can say that while I have been lucky and while I love my friends and family, I was absolutely willing to lose each and every single one of them by the time I came out. It's not because I'm cold or heartless or only care about my self, it's because I reached a point where I really felt it was do this or simply die.

The feelings of a significant other are important so don't misunderstand what I am saying as trying to invalidate that. I just think it is important to understand, especially when you are going based on vibes that people are going to feel the way that they feel and those feelings more than likely have absolutely nothing to do with you in specific.

Hugs,

Sarah

[Guest Struggling]

Nat and LuAnne,

I am Strongs S/O. I know when I read the first entries from Nat, I saw a lot of what Strong and I am going through. And I know what you are going through Lu. I am there and trying hard and doing a lot of my user name. But as we continually talk, not all the time about what's going on, but about general life, home and child rearing things, we have kept our relationship going, even though it has changed a bit. I still want to walk this road with Strong, whether it be hand in hand, or there for a shoulder to lean upon when it gets scary, intense, difficult. I want to support him in everyway I can. Yes we are at a stage that maybe a bit of space would do us good. Being ,on top of each other, so to speak, every day makes it very hard for both of us. since we both are stubborn, hard headed and a bit hot tempered. Even though doing what we have talked about is extremely hard, I think that, this will make our understanding and acceptance of this new revelation stronger. I have read a lot of the forums posts and replies, and yes some may come across on the surface as slightly towards one person or the other, some even negative, but if you continue to read with an open mind you can see that everyone is trying to relate their experience's with having to go through this or supporting the person trying to become the REAL them. I just hope, as I have said before, that I can become, or continue to become as strong as Angel and many others. They are a god-send to me with their words and empathy, and makes me fight hard to understand my feelings and why I am feeling the things I feel and what I can do to understand and accept them.

LuAnne, don't give up on Nat, Nat don't give up on Lu, each of you has to accept that it will be hard in its own way on yourselves, just try to love and understand each other, take a time out every now and then, still try to find time for yourselves, together, maybe doing something new and different or something you haven't done in an extremely long time. Something as simple as going to the store together. Don't lose hope in each other, walk together for as long as you can, hopefully it will be beyond the end of this road and onto a brand new one. My prays and support are with you both. And know that neither of you are ever alone.

[Guest nat1982]

We are ok now. It was just a fight and i was venting as i dont have a friend who i can call in a time of need. yes we are human and will have many more, but we love each other and will do this together as we have done so before.

[Guest LuAnne]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has been supporting my husband. You have helped lift her spirits in times when she needed it and I really appreciate it. I also want to say thank you to everyone who has understood what so's go through and are supportive of us too. I understand having bitterness about a situation in your life. Most people do. I can't or won't be ever able to understand the pain you all must live with. I can only hope it does get easier for you all and that life treats you better.

I can only share my pain with you all for you to understand how it is for us too. I endeavor to always be honest and fair and treat people the way I want to be treated. I know my faults. I know I have a quick temper but I also believe I am a caring person and I will always jump to defend who and what I love.

I truly hope you all have someone in your life that will do the same for you whether your the one transitioning or the SO.

[Guest Jennifer T]

As Natalie's partner it is frustrating and hurtful reading the negative comments when it comes to couples having a hard time adapting to a major adjustment in their life. Natalie is not the only one transitioning, myself and our four kids have to as well. Would be so much better for Natalie to receive encouragement and hang in there comments rather than poor me comments and just end it now advice. I am entitled to my feelings in this as well. Just because I have a hard time with it somedays doesn't mean I don't love my husband any less or want to leave our marriage. I just need my feelings and thoughts heard and validated too. Marriage is a two way street and compromise needs to be two way street too. We still love each other and are working this the best we can. Transition takes time for all involved. Mentally as well as physically. After 11 years together one fight is not the end of the world.

Luanne, I am still ruminating on this. This is affecting me profoundly; that you and your children have to transition along with Nat. That is profound to me. It isn't simply a matter of the spouse or children (or anyone involved, really) accepting their spouse's transition. They have to change in many of the same ways - emotionally, mentally, experientially. And we ask a lot of you in doing so because while we know this about ourselves for soooo long, you all do not usually. In my case I've had a lifetime to desire change. My wife has not, nor does she desire said change.

Profound Luann. Thank you for posting it. Got a lot to contemplate. Coming up on 27 married years (30 total) with my wife tomorrow. How can honestly expect her to 'accept' such a change?

[Guest KimberlyF]

Profound Luann. Thank you for posting it. Got a lot to contemplate. Coming up on 27 married years (30 total) with my wife tomorrow. How can honestly expect her to 'accept' such a change?

I think being married w/kids there are some different rules. I don't know if we can expect much of anything from others. Anything in that direction is a gift. I think we should do what we need to do and learn to deal with the guilt. Not the same as choosing to do what we want to do. When the kids are no longer dependent they are out of the equation.

[Guest Jennifer T]

About the kids, are they? Really? Both of my children are grown and in their own. I have grandchildren now. They all know me as I have been and I still have very close relationships with them.

Are the boundaries of who is affected and who isn't / who matters and who doesn't / who has to change or accept - arbitrary? Who determines this? Is it us?

The more I think on this, the larger the implications.

[Guest KimberlyF]

These are all personal choices that we have to live with. I would say if we care about someone in an extreme case of either or, it is more compassionate to have them hate us, then to kill ourselves and have them perhaps live with that guilt. But this is an extreme case and the majority are not full-transition or die.

[Guest Jennifer T]

But honestly I'm not thinking along the lines of either or. Just if we make the choice to move forward it seems it's not just simple to say who counts and who doesn't. Your statement concerning children being grown just came across to me as rather 'matter of fact'. And I can't say that I see it that way.

You're correct, they are personal choices. Extremely so. And everyone has to make their own. LuAnne's words hold water.

I'm not yet a "do or die" case. As evidenced by the fact that I am still here. I don't have the courage. So the question then needs to be asked, at what point does one say "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead" if those significant others can't make the change as well?

What a mind ****...

[Guest LuAnne]

As an SO it was and is important that this be a shared journey. Nat was rushing at the beginning and it pushed me away and frightened me. Its been nearly 9 months since she told me and we are at a point where we realise that compromise is the main key. We both have to give and take. She has told hold back and I have to push myself out of my comfort area to allow her things she needs while I get time to get used to each new change. Transition can't be a selfish thing if people want to keep their loved ones close. Some will never accept it but others may just surprise you if you take it slow.

Jennifer T I realy wish the best for you and congratulate you on your anniversary. Maybe with a little time your wife will slowly adapt. Fingers and toes crossed for you.xxxx

[Guest KimberlyF]

I stated that poorly and it's my fault.

I think for any life change we should consider the impact of everyone we love and care about. But as a parent with a minor child under our care I think the bar is set so much higher. Until they are on their own.

[Guest Jennifer T]

I stated that poorly and it's my fault.

I think for any life change we should consider the impact of everyone we love and care about. But as a parent with a minor child under our care I think the bar is set so much higher. Until they are on their own.

No fault, Kimberly. We're good. And yes, I do understand about having young children. I kept this all tightly packed away for those years. I was the dad they needed me to be. I did the best I could.

And T is tired while Jennifer seeks her freedom .

Peace to you this night.

[Guest Jennifer T]

Thank you, LuAnne. I told my wife in October of 09. Not much has changed.

Congrats to you and Nat. I can only imagine how difficult it is for you both. Keep each other close. And never ever give up on one another.

[Guest angels wings]

Jennifer your heart just shines I so wish the very best for you and your wife .dont give up

Angel (((((((((((hugs)))))))