Working with Women

[Guest DianeATL]

I was in a meeting today with 4 senior executives (all above me) at work and realized that I was only one in boy clothes in the meeting. I get along really well with them, we relate well, and it's hard to describe but at times they seem protective of me, like I am one of the girls they are looking out for. I sense a really different dynamic when it is me and the other ladies working on something versus when a male is interjected into the equation.

Does anyone else have similar work expenses? I think when the time comes to transition at work they would be very supportive but unfortunately, there are males above them on the org chart that would probably look for an excuse to exit me.

[Guest -guest-]

I spent a couple of years doing office volunteer work in all-female environments. When a male was around, the dynamic did change noticeably.

[Guest Kelly-087]

It depends on the woman.

Some of them are going to be so cool with you transitioning. Especially the more openly mother-y types. I have one of these.

Some of them aren't going to care.

If you present as a girly 'guy' sometimes, like I heavily do.. Some women absolutely love that but they want you to be a girly guy and not the girl you are.

Sometimes men are going to be the least you worry about as women can get much more prejudiced, it depends on the environment.

[VickySGV]

I was the only "male" administrator in my office for over 10 years. Five women at my level and two above. We were largely a very good team (one at my level thought she should have gotten the top level position, and gave our two step up leader a snot job when she could.) and even though I was not out until the last 3 years, I fitted into the female cooperation patterns, and understood the diffferent emphasis on work that existed from another similar office with a T driven male leadership who drove their lone female administrator at my level nuts. Of course even I had problems dealing with the male pack as I called them, not serious, but they could never figure me out either. When I retired and came fully out, there were a whole bunch of folks with little light bulbs over their heads turning on!!!

[Guest DianeATL]

Vicky, my thoughts exactly - at some point when I am out, I think light bulbs will go off even though I am not sending overt signals now.

[Charlize]

Quite a few flashbulbs went off when i came out and i told the men i had worked with. I could hear the "so that explains it" From several voices. Oddly and gladly they are still my friends and quite caring of me. Now they seem torn between opening doors for me or slapping me on the back. In a way i would enjoy going back to construction as a woman just to enjoy the social interactions on construction jobs.

Hugs,

Charlie

[Sakura]

There is a dynamic in how women view males that they feel are non threatening , Vs males they feel are threatening. There are genrally two ways Women catagorize Men and two subsets . Creepy and not Creepy. Aggressive and arrogant and non aggressive and arogant. And specialy in work environments men dominate women cooperate. and if men fit into that cooperation they are generally better received.

Women are typically weary of males in their spaces. or what they feel as thier domain. With good reason. when a new male has been introduced to to an all female social setting it can become disruptive based on the type of male he is. Women become uncomfortable or slightly more hostile . toward this new male . until they can assertain the intentions of the new male. Women also form close bonds with people Male or female that they interact with regularly. They make these bonds more quickly with females. with men again having to prove they are not creepy or aggresive.

with the women you work with it sounds to me that they trust you and have allowed you in. But by coming out. You may cause them to feel they must reevaluate if you are a threat to them. Meaning they may become hostile or uncomfortable around you. I would not take thier "coolness" now as am indicator of how cool they maybe when they realize they have to share a restroom with you.

[Guest DianeATL]

There is a dynamic in how women view males that they feel are non threatening , Vs males they feel are threatening. There are genrally two ways Women catagorize Men and two subsets . Creepy and not Creepy. Aggressive and arrogant and non aggressive and arogant.

Women are typically weary of males in their spaces. or what they feel as thier domain. With good reason. when a new male has been introduced to to an all female social setting it can become disruptive based on the type of male he is. Women become uncomfortable or slightly more hostile . toward this new male . until they can assertain the intentions of the new male. Women also form close bonds with people Male or female that they interact with regularly. They make these bonds more quickly with females. with men again having to prove they are not creepy or aggresive.

with the women you work with it sounds to me that they trust you and have allowed you in. But by coming out. You may cause them to feel they must reevaluate if you are a threat to them. Meaning they may become hostile or uncomfortable around you. I would not take thier "coolness" now as am indicator of how cool they maybe when they realize they have to share a restroom with you.

Very insightful - thanks for the detailed response Sakura!

[Guest sarah_uk]

I just think most people in a workplace are evil. But thats down to bad experiences.

Perhaps one day I will get over that feeling, and work again.

[Guest N. Jane]

I transitioned and 'woodworked' at the age of 24, very early in my career in a predominantly male field, and and ran smack-dab into full-blown sexism! I went to technical job interviews where the first questions were "Are you married?" "Do you plan to get married?" "Do you have children?" "Do you plan to have children?" even before anything was asked about my education and experience! I had (male) bosses (more than once!) who tried to use their position of authority to garner sexual favours and some who's sexual advances were outright criminal. I was used to having my opinions ignored and being disregarded in meetings. I had not (thought) I had experienced much in the way of "male privilege" before but being seen and regarded as a woman was like being less than human! GRRRR! It very quickly turned me into a "quiet feminist". When somebody stepped over the line and I had proof, heads would roll and often did!

I found myself the practitioner of "reverse discrimination". Anytime I could do anything to help another woman, I went out of my way to do so. I UNDERSTOOD what it was like to be a woman in the workplace and gave other women every advantage I could.

Sure, there are different types of women, not all of them nice, but for the most part there is the women's equivalent of "the old boys club" and there is a camaraderie among women that I always enjoyed. I think men connect on an intellectual level (not always a very high one LOL!) but women connect on many levels at once. About the only time a woman will stab another woman in the back is when there is a man involved; other than that women are very loyal friends and supporters.

I retired from my 50 year career recently and I have to say all of my best friends were women and most of my good memories are centred around other women.

[tracy_j]

This is a little complex in this setting because people are changing but I have generally found that when women I work with realize that I can communicate with them openly and equally about the type of things they would normally discuss a lot of barriers seem to drop and I am more accepted.

I work in an environment which has a somewhat larger proportion of females to males but has equality as a primary rule, but it has been my experience that equality of the sexes is never going to happen. Rules drive toward it but social etiquette and the capitalist economy drive it the other way (there are many other reasons too but it's not my field). There will be other innate differences as well but I think I do not understand these much as I don't see or feel them.

Ok so I am male and not changing as such but it is interesting how peoples perceptions of you change greatly dependent on your persona. Mine tends to vary somewhat between male and somewhat feminine in the working environment.

I would agree with Kelly in that the 'girly guy' is no threat but as a woman that may well be different. Lack of knowledge about you would play a big part. I also agree that men are likely to be the lesser threat as their prejudice is often far more obvious.

All in all I would refer back to my comment that equality of the sexes is never going to happen and if anyone were aware that a person had changed mtf or ftm then they would, if not had experience or other knowledge, be somewhat confused on how to instinctively react. This may make them fearful.

(sorry if this does not make much sense but I think perhaps I am looking at the general case of men / women interactions and change of gender at the same time which is bound to complicate things and certainly makes me think hard)