How well do I pass for Male?

[Guest Silver_Fjord]

Ok, well, I told my husband this morning that I was wanting to dress and act male. My name is Silver. But, I have no male clothing! Well, I didn't until earlier today. Below are the two photos of me in my clothing I got today. My pants need to be shortened- freaking hard to find 34x29 pants! Oh well. I think my shirt might be a little big, but that's just me. Trying to hide the female body under it. I do have Ace Bandages on binding my chest- it's large. But I was so happy with how flat they made me! Going to order a proper binder as soon as I have the spare money.

Please be honest though, how well do I look like a guy in this? Should I go less "dapper"? I like the 1920's look and really want to find a vest to go over this, but I couldn't find one today. Not for a reasonable price anyway.

[Guest]

Hi Silver,

You've got a great start! Of course, your pants need to be taken up, but that's do-able. Unfortunately, I've no idea of mens fashion (is there such a thing?).

I do have to ask. What did the cat and dog think of your clothes? I did enjoy the cat circling you - checking you out in your new duds.

Keep it up!

Love, Megan

[Guest Silver_Fjord]

Hah, forgot the cats were in the photos! That's Genkai (we call her Kai) and Harley, they were curious about the smells on the pants I believe. Otherwise they seemed content with me in that.

So, I look passable at least? I mean, I'm hiding the female body under there well I suppose is the right question.

I think I may try binding under some of my more male t-shirts that I already have just to see how well that works. I'll post those photos when I get to them. Thank you for the input!

[Guest Opal]

It appears to me that you are passing pretty well there. I believe that others would agree with me that attitude plays a pretty big part in how well you come across.

I saw elsewhere that your husband is accepting, and even helping with some initial selections of clothing! Looks like you are coming right along in very short order.

Opal

[tracy_j]

Looks reasonable to me although I don't know how male dress is to you locally.

I think one thing I have noticed with people wanting to dress male is that there is great concern on fit of clothes. I know no one would want to look too much like a slob but male clothes tend to be worn far looser fitting than female.Many males would wear something a size out without worrying about it (at least here). I have seen many men wearing trousers which are very much toward being too long as shown in your photos (I have always hated this but I get accused of wearing trousers too short - you can't win haha). It depends very greatly where you wish to circulate, but the overriding factor is how confident you are. At least you have one advantage - the majority of male clothing is not stretch fit so far easier to take in / adjust for size.

From what Megan mentioned - there is such a thing as men's fashion - there are exceptions but I think the majority of men only buy in the current trend - not a fashion statement (or just going out so reduced in price). Personally I have worn things very dated as I like to get good use out of clothes (perhaps more a male thing), but I am also a bit biased as feminine.

Does your husband think you would pass?

Just keep going - you're getting there

Tracy x

[Guest Jaques]

There are many bio guys who have 34 waist and 29 inside leg. In England they make pants that size, the leg size counts as short, then there is regular which is 30 or 31" and long which is 32" - im sure there are pants you can get similar. I have problems like that too since i put on weight round the middle - because i have slim hips, so what fits my waist can look like jodphurs on my hips, lol. I also have problems with long sleeves as most women have shorter arms than men, so my shirt sleeves are usually too long. Clothes can be tailor made now very cheaply itailor for one, you can design your own shirt, suit online...........yeh i think you could pass with the clothes ok.............

[Guest Zayden]

I believe that most successfully passing trans people would consider attitude and demeanour to be far more important than clothing - however it certainly does look like you have a good start.

The one thing I will say is purchase a binder.

If you have not already, please read this: http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10254

It goes over various concerns/eventual damage that can be caused by binding inappropriately.

[JJ]

From my observation men do tend to make a statement of who they are-what kind of man-to some extent with the kind of clothes they wear but it is seen as a kind of package deal and not in the same way women are. Other people glance at my clothes and guys dressed the same type-not style so much as type-tend to nod slightly. As if we have different clubs we belong to based on how we dress. Fine with me. I tend to feel more positive about men dressed the same type of clothes as I am so it makes sense.

I do get a slight frown from older men sometimes. Maybe because I'm not in the mold but that is their problem not mine. And that is what matters most about what you wear I think. Owning it. Women seek approval in a way more than men. Or appear to do so. Men move and act more like they own their space. Use clothes to declare who they are but not to be stylish as much.

Some men do care about their clothes. To am extent I do-not from socialization so much as being an artist I think. I like presenting a picture of a together man in public. I like my jeans to fit-which gets me pegged as younger oddly enough I have noticed when I wear baggier jeans people guess my age about 5 to 10 years older but that is a side effect and not why I wear them that way. I just like the look.

Your clothes do still send a message. Some men don't care and some do but they are not judged the same way for it. I'm no less man for liking my clothes to look good.

At home -another story. I have favorites I wear to shreds. Stains don't matter. They feel like old friends.

Look at other men in your group or men you identify with and then wear what you like and feels right for you. In time it just feels natural. And own them in every sense.

As far as binding please listen to what Zayden said and read that thread. It can make a difference in your health and even ability to continue binding at all.

By the way from the pics you look good and the body language looks good too

Johnny

[Guest Silver_Fjord]

Thank you everyone for the advice!

Yes, I am saving money to get a proper binder TKingdoms 801 modle specifically. Right now I'm just wearing baggy hoodies out in public to hide my chest.

Hadn't thought about looking around at what the other guys in my area are wearing. Well, no, not quite right, I have. But I live in the redneck area of TN and I personally wouldn't be caught dead in camo!

So far the only complaint I am getting from my husband is that my hair is out of place for being male. I plan on recoloring it. My bangs are bright blond while the rest of my hair is a deep natural red color. That's why I blocked out my face in those. One on my medications was filled wrong at the walmart last night, so I'm going to look for some cargo pants (work pants) and a t-shirt that fits.

Johny, you said you are an artist (fist bump) Made me think. As much as I like the idea of dressing more...upclass...my female me dresses more artsy fartsy. So...perhaps for ease of transition I should do the same as male? Uh, more like a hippie I suppose.


Back to hair, I have thought of getting dread locks. Anyone see this as more female or male? Or is that more a neutral thing where you are? Here I only see it on African Males. In Ashville NC I see them on everyone. Just curious.

If I get more clothing today I'll post those photos.

[Guest]

OK Mister, I just walked into the hardware store to get my picture hanging clips. I am checking you out. Giggle.

I'm attracted to the fact that you are wearing good sturdy clothes that contrast nicely and you don't look sloppy. You are clean, but no way primped. You gain manley points for not being too stylish like a female, just a good looking guy in a casual confident moment.

Oops, those elbows tucked in? You loose manley points. Hands in the pockets. My signals... hmm... Is he lazy, or playing pocket pool? LOL! Sorry my bad.

Being typical female, I begin to think he is a diamond in the rough, wonder how I would fix him if he represented me. Arms bent at the elbows, elbows pointing out, fist clentched slightly maybe, taking up his rightful manley space. Not like ready to kick butt or anything, just gentlemanly confidence that he can handle life and sweep a girl off her feet if needed. OK I'm playing, but the arms in the picture purely defines the figure eight of the hips. Way no manley points.

Gaining lots of manley points for the good stance and the clothes that fit like he knows how to live life like a loose shirt. read that as someone I could trust and have fun with, not too uptight about life. Just a guy any girl would feel comfortable to be around. Personna and confidence makes the man, way more than the clothes.

I think you have a great start, forgive me for my girl ramblings. Maybe not a hug just yet, but I want to be first in line to give you a handshake Sir. Also please escort me to the picture hanging items, I feel a little nervous about those three grimmy dudes in the corner over there. Learing at me making me uncomfortable. Giggle. JodyAnn

[Guest Silver_Fjord]

Oops, those elbows tucked in? You loose manley points. ... the arms in the picture purely defines the figure eight of the hips. Way no manley points.

Ah, yah, perhaps I do need to work on that a bit. But I'll gladly help you find the picture hangers Mam. Even show you how to make sure the picture is level if you'd like.

Got some more clothing today. New pants, two new shirts. I can't for the life of me figure out why in the world my camera took everything in fuzzy images though! Arg...anyway. Included one picture of me as female so you can see what the differences there may be.

Be harsh if you need to be! JodyAnn: Thank you for your input. I think the hands in my pockets are more of a lazy thing honestly, and not really knowing where to put them. I feel a little silly crossing my arms across my chest. A bit worried they will attract attention to that area actually.

For those concerned about me binding my chest up- I am only doing so for the purposes of the photos. I have yet to go out in public dressed as a male (well, at least in recent years) and I fully intend on buying a binder before I go out in public as Silver.

[Guest]

Alright Silver, if you want to come over and level my pictures you are going to have to loose the girl friend in the picture. I refuse to be the other woman. Giggle.

If you will take me with a grain of salt about my playing, I will continue to give you my take. I won't be harsh but I will be blunt. Look, I had to fake being a manley man for a hundred years, no one questioned it, so I do have a bag of tricks. This should come easy for you because you are a guy, we just need a little fine tuning. Maybe manley exercises will help. No we are not lifting weights here, just male confidence presentation. you have passed the 101 class, time for more.

GET YOUR HANDS OUT OF YOUR POCKETS!!! You are welcome to do that on your sixty-fifth birthday when you retire. Excercise one: If you put your hands into your pockets any times other than getting your car keys or spare change out for the parking meter, your need to put your hands on your head. With your elbows out, tilt your head up all the way and stare at the sky. More on the reason later.

Two: What do you do with your hands? Jump down and give us twenty pushups. Manley straight body ones. When you get back up, stand like that.

Three: When you are gazing forward stand straight and pretend you are trying to look across six or eight car roofs to see a babe you want to catch her eye.

OK, gottem done? What just happened here? You now have that testosterone pulsing through your viens. With your hands on your head and tilted back, you have to stand very errect, (That's a guy term.) to keep your balance and it is nearly impossible to tilt your head to the side. The tilted head is a coy girl thing, eg, dead giveaway! Now you are not poking your belly out. Keep those shoulders lifted, just as in the pushups. Keep those arms and fists clenched like you want to punch me in the nose for telling you all this. Please don't.

Hmm... we may need to find a place that you can observe men at work when there are no female distractions around. Maybe you need to supervise a construction gang from outside the fence. You will think of something. By watching them work, I bet you can pick out the bosses, the hard workers and the scrubs. Don't be a scrub. Be a leader! Oh and practice all the exercises in private, we want to keep the project under wraps.

Oh, I forgot to mention, you are handsome, so run with it Mister. Hug. JodyAnn

[Guest]

Oh BTW don't bind down too tight there, you want to show off the big rack of chest muscles. As to how to get that look right? Heck I don't know! I'm trying to get nice big fluffy bosoms. Check with Johnny, he knows all about that stuff. You should be picking his brain anyway, because he is a total hunk! Don't you dare tell him I said that. Giggle.Jody

[Guest Jaques]

When I lst started to wear male clothing, I went to charity shops and picked up all kinds of suits, shirts, even a pr of shoes that fit, (with lifts)............which helped me a lot at the time and as I got more confidence wearing them, began to buy more.............

[Ravin]

Going to reiterate that ace bandages are a really, really bad idea. Pick up a $12 Starter brand compression shirt from wal-mart. It's a start and way more comfortable and safe.

[JJ]

Hi

Like the clothes but got one bit of advise because it is one I have to watch myself. You have a habit of turning your head to one side or slightly down for pics. In my area at least and my observation men don't do that particular stance. We were taught to do it very young and it becomes a hard habit to break but makes a real difference. Take some pics with your head back and straight-even chin slightly up is better than down -and look at the difference. There is also a thing called the FTM stance we have to guard against because it isn't natural male to round your shoulders as we tend to unconsciously do to make our chests less visible. Actually makes people look because it is off norm rather than causing them to accept at a glance which is what we really want. Looks like you are doing well on avoiding that in the pics though.

Do like the clothes. When you buy tees some day one thing I found that helps because I am super chest dysphoric but have pecs-which I should be proud of but can't and they DON'T compress being muscle-is that tees with a pattern across the chest actually disguise any shape there rather than emphasizing it as you might think. It breaks up the flow of the eye and really makes a difference. Again take pics and look at the difference in a chest in a plain tee and one with a pattern. Learning to present male a camera can be your best friend and highlight things you would otherwise miss.

Johnny

[Guest meagan]

In my male days, clothes that fit right or a size or two over were the norm for just about every guy I knew. It was also rare for guys to have clothes that did not look like they could stand on there own either. Not necessarily dirty, just worn very very well. In fact, most of the guys I know and I did too wore the same two pairs of pants and maybe three t-shirts in cycle for about a week. The next week another two pants/three shirts combo and then wash them. after a wash and dry. toss em on the floor and wear when ready. Most clothes found in a drawer or hanging were clothes least worn which is why they were still put away lol. If pants were too long, you wore them until you had walked away most of the excess material and then they were perfect. Most guys had some nicer clothes just in case you had to do interviews or venture from the small town to the city. If you had a date then dressing nice meant picking the best shirt and pants from your 2 pants 3 shirts cycle, putting them together and tucking the shirt in. It was rare if any of the guys wore reds, oranges, yellows as the standards were blue, black, grey, brown and white(which eventually became grey lol) and this was male dressing as i knew it.

[Guest]

Hey Silver, when you have a few days practice we want to see more pictures of the handsome guy. I promise not to pick on you Sir. Hug. Jody

[Guest Silver_Fjord]

More photos coming in the next few days- maybe later tonight if my sister can get rid of this stupid blond that she decided to put in my hair! Arg.

[Guest Scarlett London]

Hope I'm not repeating too much of what others have said. I am male and occasionally crossdress. I'll start off by saying you pass just fine. The problem with guys is that most of them don't know a thing about style, nor do they care about it. Guys look better in clothes that are tighter fitting (for button downs I gravitate toward "modern fit" as it's cut to curve in at the sides) and regular or slim fitting jeans. I don't know how flat your binder will make your chest, but t shirts that are tight fitting look nice. But if that reveals too much try to find a size that is the smallest you can get without giving away too much. The bottom of the pants should stop just above the shoe's sole (for dress pants there are about 3 acceptable heights and just above the sole is the absolute lowest, and landing right at the top of the shoe borderline too high). I wear 33 or 34 x 30 pants so I know your struggle in finding pants at the propper length. I would wear 29 long if I could find em. Dressing like a guy doesn't mean looking sloppy or frumpy. I've never really dressed much for comfort, lol. Anyway, I'm not calling you frumpy, you do look fine. The pants are a bit long though and the next shirt purchase go a bit smaller. I just notice a lot that when women dress like men they opt for baggy (probably to hide the boobs) but if you're binding there is no reason not to go tighter, more form fitting. Hell what better proof of looking more male than being able to show off your flat chest, lol. Also remember that guys who are even a little above avg weight will have SOME boobage. Hope that was at least a little helpful.

Scarlett

[Guest Silver_Fjord]

Hope I'm not repeating too much of what others have said. I am male and occasionally crossdress. I'll start off by saying you pass just fine. The problem with guys is that most of them don't know a thing about style, nor do they care about it. Guys look better in clothes that are tighter fitting (for button downs I gravitate toward "modern fit" as it's cut to curve in at the sides) and regular or slim fitting jeans. I don't know how flat your binder will make your chest, but t shirts that are tight fitting look nice. But if that reveals too much try to find a size that is the smallest you can get without giving away too much. The bottom of the pants should stop just above the shoe's sole (for dress pants there are about 3 acceptable heights and just above the sole is the absolute lowest, and landing right at the top of the shoe borderline too high). I wear 33 or 34 x 30 pants so I know your struggle in finding pants at the propper length. I would wear 29 long if I could find em. Dressing like a guy doesn't mean looking sloppy or frumpy. I've never really dressed much for comfort, lol. Anyway, I'm not calling you frumpy, you do look fine. The pants are a bit long though and the next shirt purchase go a bit smaller. I just notice a lot that when women dress like men they opt for baggy (probably to hide the boobs) but if you're binding there is no reason not to go tighter, more form fitting. Hell what better proof of looking more male than being able to show off your flat chest, lol. Also remember that guys who are even a little above avg weight will have SOME boobage. Hope that was at least a little helpful.

Scarlett

Oops, seems I dropped of the face of the planet...again.

Thank you very very much for the advice Scarlett! Glad I'm not the only one who has issues trying to find the right size pants. As for the shirt size, those are a size small. Or at the very least the smallest size I could find without going to the xxl in kids sizes. Which is embarrassing in it's own right when trying on clothing.

I ordered a binder from T-Kingdom- 801 I think is the proper number. Ordered it Saturday. So...hopefully it will be here before my trip to Pittsburgh in November. Whereupon I intend on being male for an entire week when in public. I am also looking into packers. So...yah...hopefully that will help my stance as well. Not being able to put my legs together comfortably and all that.

As for hands in pockets...I know I know, it's probably not something to aim for when trying to pass as male. But I have been observing a lot lately; when out grocery shopping, at the mall for clothing, ect. And...really a substantial amount of men around here do actually walk with their hands in their pockets. However, I have noticed that I will pull my posture upright more now. Helps my back as well I suppose. Anyway. I did get a more traditional "graphic tee" the other day-- need to take a photo. And also got the blond from my hair. Ended up making it nearly black in coloration, but whatever.

I do have a question for everyone though:

My ears are gauged. And while I realize both genders wear gauges, should I just leave them out of my ears for not attracting attention to my face (as it is feminine) or should I not worry about it? I'm used to having them in, and I think if they weren't there I might start tugging on my ears out of habit then attract more attention myself by fidgeting.

[Guest Jaques]

What is "gauged" please? If its some kind of ear ring, i occasionally wear a small plain white gold ring in one ear or small diamond studs if i go to a party, most of the time im bare eared because i dont wear jewelry much - in fact i dont even wear a watch unless im going out somewhere i might need it - if you dont want to draw attention to any part of your body, i would avoid anything too big - some F2M's can pack a little large for instance which often causes people to stare and look at them when they might normally not notice....................i have a feeling this is nothing to do with jewellry - im puzzled about these gauges, lol!

[Guest Jamie_cd]

Silver, you pass well as a male. Men tho stand a little differently than you are in the pics you posted. Typically their elbows are pointed out and arms aren't right at their sides. And you can keep the gauges in your ears. That's a pretty normal thing for men and women.

[Guest Scarlett London]

Jaques, gauge refers to the size of the ear rings. Generally if someone says their ears are gauged, they probably have a decent size hole in their lobe. Silver, what size gauge are you? I don't think people really notice much unless they're huge. And since guys wear them too, I'm not sure I'd worry too much.

Also, in regards to men with their hands in their pockets, I have a hard time keeping them OUT. But I understand, when I'm en femme, I'm not really sure what to do with my hands either, lol. You can make it a confident look as long as you keep your back straight and chin up. So, that grey button down was a small? Hmmmm. Not sure then what to say, lol.

[JJ]

Funny and odd body language thing about hands in pockets. Most men keep their thumbs out while most women keep their thumbs in. Displaying thumbs is an old body language way of expressing dominance or being assertive and hiding them expresses submission. Women in positions of power or who are more assertive do keep thumbs out more but basically it's more a male thing. Like all behaviors there are exceptions and situations that don't apply but if you watch it is in general true. So there is more to keeping your hands in your pockets even than most people are consciously aware but unconsciously we read body language far more than anything else.

However adapting a posture that just doesn't feel right to you because it is seen as male is counterproductive if it makes you feel or seem unreal or awkward.

Johnny