How good intentions often hurt depressed post-op

[Drea]

I find this statement to be patronizing and invalidating

Again, it is patronizing and invalidating

I am trying to understand what this "invalidating" stuff means? How does someone invalidate someone else?

Certainly someone can validate someone's feelings by saying something like "yes I feel like that too", so is invalidating "no I never felt like that at all"? And if so, is someone supposed to lie about their experiences because it differs from what one wants to hear? What does it matter if someone agrees or not? Is support supposed to be telling people only what they want to hear? To me that is flattery.

Or when you are saying "invalidating me" is it something else?

I seen people say things like "invalidating me" along with "it is like saying I don't exist". I get confused by it.

I know the US educational system there is so much emphasis on nobody ever being wrong, or losing in a sports competition which has fostered in an ironic way that people can't have different points of view because expression of the different point of view is the same as saying "you are wrong".

[Carolyn Marie]

For the Mods, please remember that arguing is not part of your mission here. This debate appears to be going in circles.

For Erika, please remember that those who respond to you are not obligated to all agree with your point of view, and that doing so is not an attack or attempt to belittle your opinion.

Thank you.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest NatashaJade]

If you find it patronizing and invalidating that SRS does not fix everything, and a person can still be depressed afterwards, you're going to be in for a rude awakening if and when it does happen. SRS fixes one thing with your body. It corrects what causes a lot of pain and anguish, yes, but that's all it does. It cannot change how people interact with you, your financial situation, your love life, your job, or your lack thereof, just to name a few things, whether they're not good before the SRS or things change afterwards. Life happens, and what's in your pants really doesn't affect most of those things that go on day-to-day.

You're welcome to believe otherwise, but going in to SRS with unrealistic expectations for it isn't doing yourself any favors.

This response was even more patronizing than the last. Wherever did I say that I thought SRS fixes everything?

Again, it is patronizing and invalidating to someone who has grieved and resented a lack of access SRS for years (most of the time silently), who sees it as an important part of their transition (and who has attempted suicide over the lack of such access), to tell them SRS doesn't fix everything, y'know. We know that! But it doesn't lessen the pain any, and your restating what we already know comes across as the superior, enlightened post-op, chosen by destiny, lecturing to us miserable and benighted perpetual pre-ops.

Again, I will make this point very clear: Post-ops should not expect to depend on perpetual pre-ops for any emotional support; the pain is often too much for us. They should find other post-ops and non-ops, as well as pre-ops that are very likely to get SRS in the next couple years or so, for that purpose. You might say it divides the community, but the American trans community has long already been divided by the haves and the have nots, because of the lack of access to medically necessary treatment for so many of us, unlike the trans communities in some other countries.

You really need to get a reality check. To say that just because I was able to beg, borrow and plead my way to my surgeon, that I am somehow "chosen by destiny" or feel myself to be superior is insulting. What you have been saying to all of the post-op folks here is that we should just shut up and be happy, or at least not share our perspective that GRS, which was entirely necessary and incredibly healing for me, did not fix every last problem in our lives. It fixed a major one and by fixing that problem, it lifted the veil on all the other problems that needed to be dealt with. We are allowed to share and allowed to continue to feel pain and allowed to occasionally look for a port in the storm.

I'm sure you will say that I am invalidating you or being patronizing, because that is your fall-back response. I suggest you reconsider your terms and tone. I have all the sympathy in the world for your plight and trust me, I was in a place where GRS did not seem possible or likely. But I never put those who had surgery on blast for having had it nor would i have ever considered telling them to find some post-op club to join so that I didn't have to hear what they had to say...or know that all the happiness eggs I was putting into that basket may not be the wisest of choices. It was because I knew folks who had been through this before that I was able to mitigate my expectations. It was because of people who had been through this before that I learned and grew and found my way to where I am now.

But if you don't want to hear what I have to say, if you'll simply negate my experience, then I have nothing for you and, perhaps, rather than offer me insults, you can just skip on by my posts.

Tasha

[Guest KimberlyF]

I have to say that I have and will continue from when I was post-op and going forward to try to support anyone I feel I can connect with or offer some advice.

In my day to day life, my friends are my friends and I look out for them be they pre, post, or non-trans. It doesn't matter who is more likely to be depressed on any given day, if someone is down, I try to help my friends.

[Guest Erika_1984]

For the Mods, please remember that arguing is not part of your mission here. This debate appears to be going in circles.

For Erika, please remember that those who respond to you are not obligated to all agree with your point of view, and that doing so is not an attack or attempt to belittle your opinion.

Thank you.

Carolyn Marie

I was saying that the tone of their posts was patronizing, in the sense of their feeling the need to remind me that SRS doesn't fix everything. It wasn't because of disagreement.

[Guest Erika_1984]

I can be a role model, but there's a reality that everyone who is thinking about transitioning or who is currently do so needs to face: Fixing trans doesn't fix everything. Cis-folk get depressed, too. Life is more than transitioning and life can be hard no matter how well things are going in one area of it. If people can learn something from me, I hope they learn that.

For someone who finds SRS a very important part of their transition, and grieves and resents their (possible) lack of access to the same (and has for years), I find this statement to be patronizing and invalidating. Only now do I find a possible opening for SRS, but that remains uncertain. For years, I have quietly mourned and resented this lack of access to SRS for me; only in the past couple of years has it erupted into a more explicit expression.

How do you have lack of access?

It seems to me that you have two options.

1) Mourn your perception of how the world should be.

2) Work with the system that is currently in place to deal with what you feel the need to deal with as thousands of people have done before you.

Regardless of if your perception of how things should be, which has more long term upside for you right now?

I have finally found a path that might lead the way, but I am not just speaking for myself and my current situation: I am speaking from years of silently grieving and resenting a lack of access to SRS and for others for whom SRS is also important, but who under the way things are now haven't a snowball's chance in heck of getting it. I know a trans woman who went full-time 30 years ago who developed a disability not long after and became unable to work; she is now on SSI and Medicaid. Even though she has wanted SRS for these 30 years, she has been unable to get it.

30 years? I know someone on SSI that found it important enough to buy herself a new car. She never had a cell phone or cable, and didn't smoke and had a roommate. She'd take a few odd jobs like baby sitting a few times a month, and put that money in the bank, and live off the other. She would rather drive than take public transportation for treatments. She did have to save for a while, but it was less than 30 years.

I suppose she could have just waited for the Gov to give her a car?

When you're on SSI, you cannot save up for SRS, because there is a restriction on the total value of the assets you are permitted to have (with some things excepted such as a single private vehicle for personal or family use, as you mention in your post, though saving up money for a medical procedure does not seem to be excepted; retirement accounts are also not excepted); violating the restriction would cause you to lose your SSI. I believe the asset limit for an individual is $2000.

[Guest Erika_1984]

Again, I will make this point very clear: Post-ops should not expect to depend on perpetual pre-ops for any emotional support; the pain is often too much for us. They should find other post-ops and non-ops, as well as pre-ops that are very likely to get SRS in the next couple years or so, for that purpose. You might say it divides the community, but the American trans community has long already been divided by the haves and the have nots, because of the lack of access to medically necessary treatment for so many of us, unlike the trans communities in some other countries.

A thousand pardons. How should the post-ops behave and feel, in order to live up to your expectations? I don't know what we'd do without your emotional support.

By the way, how was it that I had access to medically necessary treatment? Just curious.

Your 3rd sentence on the 1st paragraph suggests you are post-op, because the antecedent of "we" appears to be "post-ops" and being a first-person pronoun, the "we" meant you were including yourself in that group. So I am guessing you are a post-op.

As for the statement "I don't know what we'd do without your emotional support," it doesn't make sense in light of what I said, when I advised post-ops against relying on people like me for emotional support. So it's like the statement does not really respond to what I actually said.

As for your question, I don't know. How did you have access?

[Guest Erika_1984]

My responses below in bold:

You really need to get a reality check. To say that just because I was able to beg, borrow and plead my way to my surgeon, that I am somehow "chosen by destiny" or feel myself to be superior is insulting. What you have been saying to all of the post-op folks here is that we should just shut up and be happy, or at least not share our perspective that GRS, which was entirely necessary and incredibly healing for me, did not fix every last problem in our lives. It fixed a major one and by fixing that problem, it lifted the veil on all the other problems that needed to be dealt with. We are allowed to share and allowed to continue to feel pain and allowed to occasionally look for a port in the storm.

That's how it came across to me. Share away, but don't direct those kinds of comments to miserable pre-ops who don't have a snowball's chance in heck of getting SRS; it does not diminish their pain. Here's the thing: that particular type of pre-op, many of whose statements were quoted in the original post of this thread, have a diminished capacity to empathize with you. Very few trans people, pre-op or not, believe that SRS would fix everything, so to some extent it is not a lesson that should even need to be taught. As well, by announcing your surgery status, you are already putting yourself at a remove from that kind of pre-op, hence the diminishing of empathy. Those quotes in the original post stem more from diminished empathy than from any unrealistic expectations of what SRS can do, I'll have you know.

I'm sure you will say that I am invalidating you or being patronizing, because that is your fall-back response. I suggest you reconsider your terms and tone. I have all the sympathy in the world for your plight and trust me, I was in a place where GRS did not seem possible or likely. But I never put those who had surgery on blast for having had it nor would i have ever considered telling them to find some post-op club to join so that I didn't have to hear what they had to say...or know that all the happiness eggs I was putting into that basket may not be the wisest of choices. It was because I knew folks who had been through this before that I was able to mitigate my expectations. It was because of people who had been through this before that I learned and grew and found my way to where I am now.

Talk away. I don't blame you for that.

But if you don't want to hear what I have to say, if you'll simply negate my experience, then I have nothing for you and, perhaps, rather than offer me insults, you can just skip on by my posts.

I hear you loud and clear.

[Guest Erika_1984]

I have to say that I have and will continue from when I was post-op and going forward to try to support anyone I feel I can connect with or offer some advice.

In my day to day life, my friends are my friends and I look out for them be they pre, post, or non-trans. It doesn't matter who is more likely to be depressed on any given day, if someone is down, I try to help my friends.

As I have long been a miserable envious perpetual pre-op (MEPP) who saw only reminders of my pain in the stories shared by post-ops, on this board and under this name (and my other pseudonym, not used here but elsewhere, beneficii), when the results of my attempt at insurance preauthorization for SRS return, I will not share it (beyond the fact that some sort of result was returned), and from then on I will cease speaking of my experience. This is so I do not conjure up pain in any other MEPPs.

This might be of benefit to the board, as well, as I think that I have a tendency to be rather toxic when describing my experiences.

[Guest KimberlyF]

When you're on SSI, you cannot save up for SRS, because there is a restriction on the total value of the assets you are permitted to have (with some things excepted such as a single private vehicle for personal or family use, as you mention in your post, though saving up money for a medical procedure does not seem to be excepted; retirement accounts are also not excepted); violating the restriction would cause you to lose your SSI. I believe the asset limit for an individual is $2000.

Are they getting the disibility insurance or the low income insurance? The disability insurance is for one who is disabled and can't work. It's my understanding that SSI, the one with the 2000 cap is supplemental insurance for low income.

If your friend wasn't getting SSDI, then the gov may have never ruled they were too disabled to work?

Edited April 14, 2014 by KimberlyF
string of prior posts deleted for clarity

[Guest Erika_1984]

When you're on SSI, you cannot save up for SRS, because there is a restriction on the total value of the assets you are permitted to have (with some things excepted such as a single private vehicle for personal or family use, as you mention in your post, though saving up money for a medical procedure does not seem to be excepted; retirement accounts are also not excepted); violating the restriction would cause you to lose your SSI. I believe the asset limit for an individual is $2000.

Are they getting the disibility insurance or the low income insurance? The disability insurance is for one who is disabled and can't work. It's my understanding that SSI, the one with the 2000 cap is supplemental insurance for low income.

If your friend wasn't getting SSDI, then the gov may have never ruled they were too disabled to work?

As I understand, it depends on how much you contributed to Social Security (and below a certain age, how much your parents contributed to Social Security) through taxes. Basically, to qualify for SSDI (which does NOT have asset limits) when you become disabled, there is a requirement based on how much you've worked in the past x years, x being dependent on age in order to get SSDI (basically your "work credits"). If you are disabled, but do not meet the "work credits" requirement for SSDI, then you get SSI, which does limit your assets. That is my understanding.

[Carolyn Marie]

May we please return the thread to the original topic? If you wish to have a discussion about benefits, you are welcome to start a different thread. Thank you.

Carolyn Marie

[MaryEllen]

There appears to be some trolling going on here for the sake of creating dissention. As Carolyn stated, please return to the original topic. Any member adjudged to be trolling will face account suspension.

[Guest Gregg Jameson]

Hi Drea,

Thanks so much for starting a very insightful thread!

Many helpful contributions to this thread as well!

Helps me to gain further understanding.

With Gratitude,

Brad