a horrible experince

[Guest ska girl]

i was in a local fast food establishment today and had an unnerving experience. i go in and the girl behind the counter while the counter wasent ugly she was clearly trans. when i approached the counter i smiled and was polite but she was very standoffish to me which definitally urked me a little. i stayed polite but lost my smile then went to sit down. as i ate i occasionally glanced over in her direction and after seeing several customers and coworkers interact with her. it suddenly became obvious how badly she must be treated and what she must go through on a daily basis. it definitely runied my meal and made me very sad to see that. i wanted to go up and say something anything, nice to her but as i still present male and the general atmosphere i felt something that said i could only make it worse and that she probally took my smile completly the wrong way. the whole experience made me question myself my strength to come out and my ability to pass more than anything in a long time. i cant stop thinking about it. i feel so sorry for and feel more sympathy towards her than just about any other person in my entire life. having not gone out dresses as myself i cant truely know what that feels like but i completely played into deeply rooted fears i have within myself. even now writing this i feel my soul drowning in tears. and i wish i could have talked to her.

love,

Annah

[JenniferB]

That definitely can be used as an opportunity to learn what to do next time you see her, or run into a similar experience. I would have tried to say something that could put her mind at ease. Maybe crack a joke, or find something that you can compliment her for. Say her clothes, or jewelry. It is all about positive energy and anything we do that can lighten the load of someone else is always worthwhile, even if there isn't a grateful attitude. Then at least I would know that I did all I could and don't have to wonder if I could have made her day a little brighter.

Love,

Jenny

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

Well you could always go back to that restaurant and try smiling a little more and say something to lift her spirits as well as your own.

If you say something nice to her then she cant misread your smile

Who knows maybe somebody will return the favor for you one day when you are dressed in public yourself.

She could also just be having a bad day because her job just plain old sucks and not so much because she is trans.

Brenda Hailey

[VickySGV]

It is a real bear-cat to meet someone you know is out Trans* when you are still closet bound. It really can put a lump in your throat and stomach. There is the real possibility of being taken as "one of the cis crowd" with bad motives. Sincere appreciation for the person's service goes a long way if it does not go beyond what was really done. It is one of the shames of being Trans* that we cannot acknowledge each other openly, but that's the way the mop flops.

Brenda does have a good point there, that the girl may have just been having a cruddy day that was not related to being Trans* at all. I had bosses who were equal opportunity offenders, they offended you no matter who you were.

[Guest jnemo]

I can... kinda relate to where you're coming from. I still dress in 'drab' for the most part, but I've been clocked by others who've transitioned and are out. I haven't had an encounter quite like yours, though. My heart goes out to you both.

Here's my idea... Sit down and write her a note of what you want to say. Maybe rewrite it... I think by a least putting down what you want to say, it'll help. And maybe you'll feel like passing her a note if you go back there, but I think being able to say what you want to say is the important part, even if you don't say it to her.

Also, hugs!

PS - maybe it is roses, but all roses have thorns!

[Guest Kenna Dixon]

Last year I was in Florida for 3 weeks, and people were very reserved - were often taken aback when that West-Coast geniality slipped out.

I'm surprised by your observation. I've lived in Florida for 37 years and traveled to the LA area many times and to Chicago even more, and I never found a general difference between the people of any two areas in terms of openness. There were instances both good and bad everywhere but never to the extent that I could form an opinion about the local population as a whole.

According to a 2005 survey, only about 33 per cent of Floridians are native to the state. But no matter what their origin, I have found people here, for the most part, to be cordial and genial.

[Guest IreneT]

Good post since we all meet TG comrades on occasion in our daily lives. It takes great courage for the girl to work behind that counter and display to the world who she is. Saying something may be just as destructive for both of you as saying nothing but sometimes we must act. My opinion is to recognize her courage next time by telling her she looks great and is not alone and give her a little note directing her to this web site. It may help and it may hurt but doing nothing can have the same effect on both of you. Let her know she is not alone.

IreneT

[JJ]

One thing I am not hearing here is the strongest protocol among us as far as meeting another trans person-It is to never, ever acknowledge that you have recognized another trans person. I have seen a couple of people I was pretty sure were trans and longed to speak to them but have been told and read over and over again that it is unacceptable to do so. You can compliment her on her outfit or hair etc but never acknowledge she is trans. That can be devastating for many trans people. We tend to see signs not everyone does but that doesn't mean it won;t harm the other trans person if we acknowledge them. And we can be wrong which can also be devastating. The person you saw as a transwoman may instead be a feminine gay guy. Happens.

Also there is seldom if ever a time in public that someone else might not overhear if you acknowledge in public and a suspicion might become a certainty that results in negative actions..

As hard as it is unless you have made contact in an LGBT environment or the other person is wearing a trans symbol or indicating in some way they are out and open to discussing it you just should not say anything.

Johnny

[Drea]

I thought the protocol if you suspected someone was trans (MTF at least) was to ask "are you a hairdresser?".

If they know the code, the dialog is open. If they don't and ask why you can complement them on their hair.

[JJ]

Never heard that -and it would be really inappropriate in every situation where I have spotted someone who I suspected might be trans. Insulting even for an FTM in some circumstances and a couple of the women I have seen have been in women's business suits.

However it's good to know in case anyone ever asks me I suppose

Johnny

[Carolyn Marie]

I thought the protocol if you suspected someone was trans (MTF at least) was to ask "are you a hairdresser?"

I've never heard that before. It''s not something I would do. I agree with what JJ said.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest jnemo]

Carolyn and JJ, thanks for the reality check. I thought about how I would feel - at the very least, I'd feel put on the spot. As for the hairdresser thing, that'd just make me go, "Huh?" Even having heard of it now, I'd go "Huh?"

I'd stick with... like I said, writing a note. Just to vent your thoughts. Then don't give it them. Maybe put it in a journal, maybe chuck it. I think if you really want to make contact, just talk to them (and anyone else you meet) like you would anyone else (talk about mundane things, like how their day is, the weather, thanks for the courteous meal service, etc - probably avoid compliments, as those can touch on insecurities more than be reassuring at times)... maybe you'll become friends and at some point have a different dialogue, but don't count on it. Also, if you do keep going there hoping to talk, it might seem like you're creepin'. Just my $0.02

[Guest LizMarie]

I find sarcasm, especially sarcasm that is exceptionally lacking in empathy to be a poor response. But hey, that's just me.

Not long ago I read about Cyndi, right here at Laura's having a conversation with a woman who walked up to her and simply said that "I'm a lot like you." Without ever focusing on Cyndi as trans, she was able to cross that barrier in what seemed a very kind way to me.

I mentioned Cyndi's story to a local friend who is very open about her trans past and she told me that she, even though she passes perfectly and is a very pretty woman, has on occasion simply walked up to someone who she knew was trans and who was struggling. She never identified that person as trans or outed them. What she did instead was to relate to the person's apparent discomfort, then reassure them by outing herself to them, and reaffirming that things can get better and that if they ever wished to chat, she'd be available. She'd then give them her cell phone number. This was all done discreetly, quietly, without calling attention to either of them and without ever focusing on that person as trans. She said sometimes people simply didn't want to talk but that other times the gates would open and that she's actually made a few of her best friends in this manner over the years.

This woman told me she's also used this strategy with cisgender women of color who have been getting harassed because they are a minority, a woman, or both. Though it's not exactly the same problem, she said that others can often still instantly relate and that bond can form. Just admitting her vulnerability and showing someone that they can get past this moment often helps.

I have to thank Cyndi for relaying that story. It opened my eyes a bit and then relaying Cyndi's story to someone here locally helped yet again.

[Drea]

I thought the protocol if you suspected someone was trans (MTF at least) was to ask "are you a hairdresser?"

I've never heard that before. It''s not something I would do. I agree with what JJ said.

Carolyn Marie

I personally wouldn't say anything however...

What I described has actually happened to me.

It certainly beats the "May I ask you a personal question?" approach.

And then there was the time person was asking about the book I was reading (just some sci-fi novel) and went on to talk about how she been reading biographies lately and rattled off a few names including "True Selves" and asked me if I heard of them. To which I answered no. It was only later that "True Selves" rang a bell and I realized her intent. So I had a quite unintentional natural air of obliviousness in answering. I knew at the time she was with someone who I was pretty certain was trans.

Such things kind of come part and parcel with awareness.

Is it really worse than getting the looks and people making assumptions? Or people not looking and making judgments and assumptions.

I think self acceptance, self confidence, self esteem are far more important than such things. Or should I say that such makes these things trivial matters.

I am sure there are plenty of trans people who never heard this protocol never to approach trans. I've certainly heard plenty of trans people say and suggest they would never approach, suggest to others as well and I wouldn't but never heard a hard and fast rule. But I suppose it is in some GLAAD recommended policy document someplace.

Though, since so often people reach to gay for parallels, is there an protocol were gay people don't approach others they think are gay?

There was an occasion at the local mall once where I saw someone who looked to be CD out at the mall and a group of teens was following her making snickering sounds and comments. I was some distance away went to intervene but the teens had split off in one direction and she had put on some speed walking with the big heels she had on so it turned into a no-event.

All that aside, in this situation, there certainly is nothing wrong with complementing her for her service (if it was good). There is certainly nothing wrong (if opportunity arises to do out of earshot of coworkers) to comment that you thought her co-workers were treating her poorly. Probably nothing wrong with offering her a tip for service though a few places have rules against such and some have a general tipping thing so can't be given individually.

[Guest Kenna Dixon]

We can't know what's in someone else's mind, of course. One might be devastated if "read" in public, and another might welcome the reinforcement offered by a fellow transgender person.

Because of my age (and because I'm so obvious that I might as well wear a neon sign on my back), it wouldn't bother me to be approached in that manner. At the same time, though, I see the transgender aspect of my being as a relatively minor part of who I am and feel funny being identified solely or even primarily on that basis.

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

I find sarcasm, especially sarcasm that is exceptionally lacking in empathy to be a poor response. But hey, that's just me.

Not long ago I read about Cyndi, right here at Laura's having a conversation with a woman who walked up to her and simply said that "I'm a lot like you." Without ever focusing on Cyndi as trans, she was able to cross that barrier in what seemed a very kind way to me.

I mentioned Cyndi's story to a local friend who is very open about her trans past and she told me that she, even though she passes perfectly and is a very pretty woman, has on occasion simply walked up to someone who she knew was trans and who was struggling. She never identified that person as trans or outed them. What she did instead was to relate to the person's apparent discomfort, then reassure them by outing herself to them, and reaffirming that things can get better and that if they ever wished to chat, she'd be available. She'd then give them her cell phone number. This was all done discreetly, quietly, without calling attention to either of them and without ever focusing on that person as trans. She said sometimes people simply didn't want to talk but that other times the gates would open and that she's actually made a few of her best friends in this manner over the years.

This woman told me she's also used this strategy with cisgender women of color who have been getting harassed because they are a minority, a woman, or both. Though it's not exactly the same problem, she said that others can often still instantly relate and that bond can form. Just admitting her vulnerability and showing someone that they can get past this moment often helps.

I have to thank Cyndi for relaying that story. It opened my eyes a bit and then relaying Cyndi's story to someone here locally helped yet again.

I thought Cyndi's story was wonderful, I enjoyed it very much, trans people dont have to be untouched China stuck in a cabinet.

I agree with Liz completely here.

I would not mind at all if someone noticed that about me and still wanted to talk to me in a nice way regardless. Its not like I dont know how I look already and I already assume everyone else is already staring at me anyway....so what the heck.

Brenda

[Drea]

Carolyn and JJ, thanks for the reality check. I thought about how I would feel - at the very least, I'd feel put on the spot. As for the hairdresser thing, that'd just make me go, "Huh?" Even having heard of it now, I'd go "Huh?"

That is exactly what I did too.

I actually got quite a laugh out of it however. This person was well meaning enough like in all the examples I mentioned.

When life throws you a curve, and isn't this trans stuff in itself a curve, one has to go with it. One can get all uptight about "somebody read me" or think, well it happens.

I dunno, I am not ashamed of who I am, I don't worry about this stuff, and what other people think isn't going to upset me.

Certainly in the one example of the book no dialog was opened. Not intentionally on my part. In the other instances it was a positive dialog.

While I recognize some may not take it so stridently as me, and I don't approach others, I think recognizing regardless of protocols and such that there are people uncouth enough to be direct, some forethought about how one might react might allow one to be more prepared if/when such arises.

[Guest Brenda Hailey]

One thing I am not hearing here is the strongest protocol among us as far as meeting another trans person-It is to never, ever acknowledge that you have recognized another trans person. I have seen a couple of people I was pretty sure were trans and longed to speak to them but have been told and read over and over again that it is unacceptable to do so. You can compliment her on her outfit or hair etc but never acknowledge she is trans. That can be devastating for many trans people. We tend to see signs not everyone does but that doesn't mean it won;t harm the other trans person if we acknowledge them. And we can be wrong which can also be devastating. The person you saw as a transwoman may instead be a feminine gay guy. Happens.

Also there is seldom if ever a time in public that someone else might not overhear if you acknowledge in public and a suspicion might become a certainty that results in negative actions..

As hard as it is unless you have made contact in an LGBT environment or the other person is wearing a trans symbol or indicating in some way they are out and open to discussing it you just should not say anything.

Johnny

I never heard of such a protocol until now. I dont understand how denying yourself what you are seeing is a good way to start a conversation.

I certainly agree pointing at the person and saying outloud for everyone to hear "HEY YOUR TRANS LIKE ME !" Is not a good way to start a conversation either. But I am sure there is a way to communicate without denying the obvious between each other.

The fact we are what we are isnt going to go away because we simply ignore it, I tried that for decades it never worked....

Brenda

[Guest jnemo]

LizMarie - I hope you didn't take what I said as being sarcastic? I would have indicated it specifically if that was my intent. However, I realize that though I may have been sincere... empathy isn't my strongest suit.

In general - I just think that it'd put me off balance if I was on the receiving end - I've found it discomfiting when the one other trans woman I know around here "gave me the eye"... subsequently, we never really struck it off (there are other factors of course). Sometimes when people are surprised or put on the spot, they don't react well. Fact of human life. As someone who doesn't pass... yeah, I'd find it disconcerting to be addressed on the basis on my transness. I would be a bit suspicious, too.

Drea - Other than being like, "Huh?" to that question I might say, "I think you're thinking of my mom, she's the cosmetologist." Well meaning or not... Idk.

I guess there's as many approaches to approaching (or not) as there are us. It's interesting to see the different viewpoints. And in that light - not everyone is going to react the same way, as people have said. Some my respond enthusiastically, some cautiously, some not at all, etc.

[Guest KimberlyF]

Always feel comfortable in telling someone you know they're Trans and asking any woman when her baby is due. Where can things possibly go wrong?

[Guest Jennifer T]

i was in a local fast food establishment today and had an unnerving experience. i go in and the girl behind the counter while the counter wasent ugly she was clearly trans. when i approached the counter i smiled and was polite but she was very standoffish to me which definitally urked me a little. i stayed polite but lost my smile then went to sit down. as i ate i occasionally glanced over in her direction and after seeing several customers and coworkers interact with her. it suddenly became obvious how badly she must be treated and what she must go through on a daily basis. it definitely runied my meal and made me very sad to see that. i wanted to go up and say something anything, nice to her but as i still present male and the general atmosphere i felt something that said i could only make it worse and that she probally took my smile completly the wrong way. the whole experience made me question myself my strength to come out and my ability to pass more than anything in a long time. i cant stop thinking about it. i feel so sorry for and feel more sympathy towards her than just about any other person in my entire life. having not gone out dresses as myself i cant truely know what that feels like but i completely played into deeply rooted fears i have within myself. even now writing this i feel my soul drowning in tears. and i wish i could have talked to her.love,Annah

I had a similar experience very recently at a gas station. The was working the cash register and when I went in to get a drink and pay, I strongly suspected she was Trans. But her supervisor was having a pretty intense conversation with her and they both acted as though I wasn't there. When the superviser finished and left, the woman working the counter just looked really tired and sad. I was pleasant. But I really wanted to say something uplifting or kind and let her know I shared a little of what she deals with, if only on the inside. For the record, the sup want berating her or anything, and their conversation was totally work related. But still, I felt a great deal if empathy fir this woman. I walked out feeling like I missed an opportunity to help someone.

[Guest ska girl]

i was mostly venting at my own fustration and expected such a response so thank you to all who contributed

i would say that what johnny said struck resonance because i felt that it would be WAY too rude to confrount her about the trans thing. i have to admit that i would not take it well either even though im shure she knows that people are aware of what she is.

as for where i live it must make huge diffrence as people here are VERY close minded and critical toward LGBT issues and someone is probally right to be suspicious if they are approached by someone presenting male.

IN response to Kenna i lived and went to school in florida (deltona actually) for 7 years because you say you are older, and if are/were a mechanic i have reason to belive i met you back in 2007 on my 18th birthday, if in fact you are the same person i would like to say that i always remembered you and you gave me some amount of inspiration in finding myself.

i would also say i definitally found the people there much more friendly but also in a very unrealistic superficial way.

again thanks to everyone who responded

love,

Annah

[Guest Kenna Dixon]

IN response to Kenna i lived and went to school in florida (deltona actually) for 7 years because you say you are older, and if are/were a mechanic i have reason to believe i met you back in 2007 on my 18th birthday

No, Annah. That would not have been me. I've never been a mechanic. I live in Deltona now but was in Orlando in 2007.

[Charlize]

I have had similar experiences when i just felt i might be able to make contact. I have done so several times but all of those were in AA meetings where honesty and openness are allowed. One of these was at a GLBT meeting so we both knew we could talk at the end of the meeting. The other was in a straight meeting and the trans person was a visitor to our area. I didn't want to call her out. I know how much it hurts to be read. When i was able to share i outed myself. Most of the people in the room have seen me transition and i am accepted there so i was only outing myself to a few newbies and i really don't care in the rooms. After the meeting she came up to me quietly and we had a good chat. She was do for surgery and was up visiting Dr. McGinn ,my MD, before her date. We spoke by phone several times and she told me her surgery date.

Later after her surgery i was able to visit her in the hospital with a straight man from the group. We had a meeting with her still confined to bed. I'm glad i outed myself to her. Sometimes it all works out for the best and we can give some comfort to another trans person. ???? "hairdresser" ????

Hugs,

Charlie

[Guest jnemo]

Context matters, that's a really good point Charlie!

Oh, and you're welcome Annah - I want to thank everyone as well, these different perspectives do help to fill in the picture for me about interacting.