Real Life Experience Prior To Surgery...

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Kia Ora Jendar,

I did not vote because I think that the time-frames are to rigid. I think that regardless of the "rules" or "laws", the time frame of RLE should be based on each individual's needs determined by themselves and their therapist. For some, they naturally have been living in their non-birth gender for some time, so that the requirement of RLE is either already met or certainly could be waived. Others, who have been timid about coming out, but are determined to move through the process of gender reassignment, I think would require many years of RLE.

Just my opinion,

bernie

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Sara & Stranded,

I should point out my comments were in regards to the Gender Recognition Bill passed in the UK [Julia's from the UK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Act_2004

I'm well aware that such things are quite uncommon elsewhere...I think at the moment there are very few countries that have a bill passed similar to that in the UK, off hand 'Spain' is the only other country that I've heard of...

Metta Jendar

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora,

Going slightly off topic here, but here's an interesting link especially for UK trans people re the Gender Recognition Act...

http://www.grp.gov.uk/formsguidancefaq.htm

There's quite a bit of useful info including a list of medical and mental health professionals who deal with transgender people...Others[non UK members] may find the link interesting...

Metta Jendar

[Guest julia_d]

Thanks Jendar . I'm well aware of all those rules (I linked to them regarding another matter a while ago)

The issue is the way in the UK they make a law, then change another which directly conflicts with it.. in this case the "prove who you are to get a job" immigration law... a part of the "keeping illegals out of employment" activities with our ridiculous national security paranoia.

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/childrens-service...obs_rrgsec9.htm

That is about the ultra paranoid childcare service, who employ dubious people on a regular basis.. hahaha.. but because they are very blinkered.. it boils down to passport, birth certificate or driving licence ..one of those three MUST be shown.. and it isn't just in childcare.. it is being used across the board. The biometric id cards they are trying to force on everybody will also be an unchanging piece of government tripe which will forever carry the marker they were issued with..

I have spent the last 3 months trying to get work.. only to be kicked back because I have no photo id.. no passport and my birth certificate is in the wrong name and gender.. It works brilliantly to keep transpeople out of employment. I have actually signed a contract of employment twice during the period.. only to then be informed after they forced me to produce a birth certificate that "the post is no longer available/does not exist .. dropped during restructuring"

You can't be discriminated against unless you are already employed.. and even then only after working there for 12 months or more..

Now you want another real pregnant dog at their retarded and discriminatory system... Can't even sign on the ordinary benefits.. they KNOW that you can never get employment because of this problem.. only option is to convince a doctor to give you.. a perfectly healthy and sound in mind person.. a sick note to claim sickness benefits. If you get that right you have some chance of a few months of benefits before they start hounding you to get employment... Fail to perform in one of their interviews with a benefits service doctor (not your doctor.. a random one they employ to get people off benefits) and that's the end of you.. no home, no income, no possibility of getting employment.. welcome to the world of the street girl or the cardboard box.. and I'm too old for either.

Right now the only thing keeping me going is my love for my husband. Luckily love is a very strong driving force which can overcome any feelings of futility and pointlessness. Sometimes the urge to just give up and go in the soil has been strong.. at least 4 times in the last 4 months I have been close to giving up and finishing it all off in a blaze of media and going to be just another statistic. For now I just need to move house.. get away from my transphobic scum landlord and into housing which isn't wrecking my health.. Then maybe I will feel just a little better about myself and this nasty situation that has been created by circumstances completely outside my control.

Can you work out why I want out of this country yet? Out of here.. or out of life.. the clock is ticking. It's going to be one or the other.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Julia,

I'm sorry to hear about the situation you find yourself in and I truly do hope that "A change is as good as a holiday" that by moving from where you are at, your perspective along with the environment will have changed for the better...

When I move place I always make a point of leaving behind any unwanted 'mental' baggage...Have you ever thought about moving to another European country ? For example The Nederlands ...Or even moving to another more LGBT friendly town/city in the UK like 'Brighton'? What's keeping you in the location you are in now?

Metta Jendar

[Guest julia_d]

Poverty.. plain and simple.. poverty. Every time you move to another town your pct funding clock resets to zero... so another 2 years if you are lucky enough to end up in a region where they will even consider it.

Brighton?.. I don't know why that hotspot of trans hatecrime is classed as LGBT "friendly" .. I have been there and it's far from that.. apart from housing being way way out of reach of all but the middle classes with well paid London jobs.

Unless you live here in the UK financial trap you can't hope to understand how hopeless it all feels.. You can't get a start here.. no matter what you try there are just more and more obstacles. I'm sure there has been a decision made to get us all to just give up or kill ourselves to solve their problem for them.. I just need my surgery.. and then I'm gone. Until then I have to suffer where I am.. but new housing would be nice because this place is becoming impossible.

[Guest Zenda]

Kia Ora Julia,

Well I guess in your situation, new housing is definately something to look forward to, I hope that you are able to move to a better area than where you are now...I had heard that Brighton was one of the most trans-friendy places in the UK, I guess no matter where one goes there a chance of meeting with bigotry of some kind...

I've never had to face any negative situations regarding my gender identity-perhaps I'm just lucky, however even here in laid back Aotearoa[ NZ ]there are trans-people who are struggling, having to run society's gauntlet everyday plus having continuing problems when faced with government departments, so you are not alone Julia...

I wish you all the best and has you have mentioned before, the love you and your husband have for each other will help you to over come most of what life throws at you...I have a friend here whose facing major difficulties with a botched government funded surgery, she's contacted numerous different government agencies, no one seems to care that much -the thing that keeping her going when she's feeling down is the love she shares with her husband...

Take care Julia

Metta Jendar

[Guest Leah1026]

I did not vote because I think that the time-frames are to rigid. I think that regardless of the "rules" or "laws", the time frame of RLE should be based on each individual's needs determined by themselves and their therapist.

That's exactly how the SOC work NOW. Okay, it says minimum one year RLE, but then the therapist may refer you for surgery. It doesn't say they have to refer you. They can write the letter IF they feel you are ready. So in essence the only set in stone requirement is at least one year RLE. It can be longer, or in very clear-cut cases, sometimes shorter (I've know many people who got the green light between 8-12 months.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I know the frustration. My therapist said at first she wasn't that literal with RLE requirements. Now she says it will be at least two years, she's not easy. Then she said she WILL give me my letter because I need to transition fully. Then she says I seem ready to live RLE and should have trouble passing male anymore. I am out at home and in the big city - partially out at work - until I got fired Monday - and now I feel in limbo! I am too androgynous to look for a new job without some questions. I am too poor to retire (age 61).

Where the heck am I? Sometimes I feel I will die just like I am - androgynous and neither here nor there. Will be an interesting funeral, "she looks so nice in that suit and tie!"

Venting today -sorry

Elizabeth

[Guest Little Sara]

That's exactly how the SOC work NOW. Okay, it says minimum one year RLE, but then the therapist may refer you for surgery. It doesn't say they have to refer you. They can write the letter IF they feel you are ready. So in essence the only set in stone requirement is at least one year RLE. It can be longer, or in very clear-cut cases, sometimes shorter (I've know many people who got the green light between 8-12 months.

If that's how it worked now it would allow shorter lengths in more than 'special cases'. You know those numbers were pulled out of thin air right? No study has been done to determine the numbers. They did study about length of RLT and regret and that kind of stuff, but samples too small, follow-ups don't happen etc. That never affected the SoCs however.

[Guest Leah1026]

If that's how it worked now it would allow shorter lengths in more than 'special cases'. You know those numbers were pulled out of thin air right? No study has been done to determine the numbers. They did study about length of RLT and regret and that kind of stuff, but samples too small, follow-ups don't happen etc. That never affected the SoCs however.

What does it matter? Between researching surgeons and saving money to pay for surgery it'll be at least a year for most folks anyway! This whole argument is just useless b*tching if you ask me. I had ZERO problems with the system. If you're interested I was full-time almost exactly 2 years before my SRS. Your problem isn't the SOC it's the freakin' system as it exists in Quebec!

365 days isn't going to kill anyone and it passes very quickly.

[Guest nova]

My opinion is that an assessment period is a good idea as long as it doesn't unnecessarily interfere in people's lives. Six months should be long enough to protect care providers and "consumers" interests. But some people may need longer to "assess". I don't think "surgery-on-demand" is a good idea at all.

[Guest B.heard]

This reply is mostly aimed for juliad As I am another brit and also my situation is some what like your own I hope I might be of some help.

I live away from a city by choice as I find they really can de-humanize you.. Im what is concider a disabled person and so my range for work is limited but that doesnt stop me being both active busy and helpful.

Now I know you having a really rough time right now and I was confused as to if you are british or moved to the country from another? if your british or getting benefits for sickness as you said, that now gives you some advantages you really need to work to you own good.

1. you can claim to have you travel cost paid back to you as long as you make the effort to fill in the correct forms.

2. housing people who are sick are allowed an assesment to gain 'housing points' if your current home effects you negatively you will gain points which bump you up a housing list faster and -not- only council housing there are many council approved trusts find out who they are get your name on their lists.

As for your doctors id suggest making an appointment with either an owner or the partner of the building you use regular and dont even ask for better treatment you dont need to ask it should be given to you simply say you have been treated poorly and are bringing the matter to his/ her attention and also stating from now on when entering the building you will have a device on your to record how you are spoken to -not- in your appointment but at the desk and waiting room, this can and will be used to build a case againest him/her if the matter isnt resolved I think you will find that poor treatment will stop over night, if it doesnt use a mob phone or anything record it and goto the cit' advice with it.

And as for your awful situation for finding work I dont know enough to know the process for getting the correct ID's all I can think of is going to your gender clinic and telling them look this catch 22 is not helping anyone.. your willing to work your trying your best to pass as the right gender and -not- insane and none of this helps when you cant answer a simple F or M question during a job interview without causing a lot of drama if they cant help you I dont know I can only hope more brits here can suggest moe for you.

My very best wishes TerryP

[Guest Jackson]

Where the heck am I? Sometimes I feel I will die just like I am - androgynous and neither here nor there. Will be an interesting funeral, "she looks so nice in that suit and tie!"

Elizabeth

Don't feel too bad, Elizabeth. I'm sure that if I die before my mother, she'll say the exact same thing about me regardless of the stage I'm in of transition.

[Guest Little Sara]

What does it matter? Between researching surgeons and saving money to pay for surgery it'll be at least a year for most folks anyway! This whole argument is just useless b*tching if you ask me. I had ZERO problems with the system. If you're interested I was full-time almost exactly 2 years before my SRS. Your problem isn't the SOC it's the freakin' system as it exists in Quebec!

365 days isn't going to kill anyone and it passes very quickly.

Many people either already have the money saved up, can take a loan right off, or will take a lot longer than a year (for example, with my current wage, I'd take ~15 years).

I've been full-time for 3 years. But I don't want to be expected to meet stringent criterias as to what I do during my full-time. If I'm a stay-at-home housewife or something like that, I don't want it to 'not be counted' as RLE because I don't work outside. If I lose my job for any reason, I don't want my full-time counter to reset.

[Guest amie]

My opinion is that an assessment period is a good idea as long as it doesn't unnecessarily interfere in people's lives. Six months should be long enough to protect care providers and "consumers" interests. But some people may need longer to "assess". I don't think "surgery-on-demand" is a good idea at all.

It's my contention that exceptions could be made in some cases and should. For example, one who could produce multiple testimonies from family and other loved ones that have been involved with the canidate for years upon years.

[Guest Little Sara]

What if you've been living as a girl full-time for 2 years but without seeing a therapist? How would the therapist know and what would they do? Restart at 0? I'd change therapist, or not go see one if that was the case. I've had 3 years, no shrinks, and my time is previous enough not to waste 1 day a month to talk about the weather for someone paid 100$ an hour.

[Guest amie]

Yu know, though I often hate the position I’m in, I’ve always found a sense of peace in the fact that those in my community seem to be some of the more free thinking individuals in existence.

It’s truly disappointing to see so many compliant to a system established by those primarily (and probably entirely) not in a position to relate to us.

It’s my opinion that one who doesn’t have the least of qualms with jumping through a hoop like this is either:

A) A post-op that can now look back on the whole thing and laugh.

Or,

One who is truly uncertain about themselves in terms going full-scale with their transition.

[Guest Little Sara]

I'm going to Thailand and won't require proof of RLT for 2 years for it. Only 6 months after name change and a letter from my endocrinologist would be sufficient.

[Guest]

I was never a fan of gate keepers. I always thought as long as your not harming someone does it matter what people want to do. That changed 5 years ago when i started this site and started getting emails from the community. These mails don't make it onto the public forums or even chat though i encourage people to do so. Certainly i get a lot of success stories from trans people in my mail. However i also get letters like these several times a week.

"Help i've been on hormones several months and have grown breasts and I can no longer hide them. I want to be a man again. How do I get rid of these"?

"I received SRS several months ago and I have little sensation and depth. I need to know how to reverse this surgery and become a man again".

I was surprised by the numbers as the TRANSSEXUAL dis-satisfaction rate was only 6% at the time. What I learned from followups was that they (the letter writers with regrets) were never transsexual in the first place, they were transgenderists. Some though did convince themselves they were transsexual to avoid ostracization in the Community which can be brutal. What I've found over the years is there are two dis-satisfaction rates post-op, 6% for Transsexuals and 31% for Transgenderists. In addition post-op the transsexual suicide was reduced while the Transgenderist suicide rate increased dramatically. Some of these went through the system legally for SRS and others did not for hormones, obtaining them on the internet. Some also lied to their therapists about their motivation and symptoms. In the end they only hurt themselves.

The system is far from perfect but is very necessary especially for safety reasons. Would the system RLE's have stopped those who weren't ready for hormones? Perhaps. However for SRS the patients input and truthfullness is essential as therapists are not mind readers. In my opinion the RLE should be 6 months to a year with some exemptions under extrodinary circumstances. ONLY a Transsexual should receive SRS/GRS. Some Transgenderists may qualify to live the role for relief and others may not. Honesty though is important if even to protect yourself from making serious life altering mistakes. Wpaths safety record is certainly better that no system at all. In this community everyone should be welcome. Disparaging one group or another can actually cause mistakes and from my experience it certainly has. The goal here is to get everyone the help that they need. Since we've been doing this i can say that those with regrets are less here than when i first started. I do think the worst thing we can do is drop the standards completely.

Intrestingly enough is that almost all regrets came from MTF's. FTM dissatisfaction with top surgery barely shows on the radar.

Laura

[Guest Little Sara]

ONLY a Transsexual should receive SRS/GRS.

and intersex people who want their assignment reversed (who usually don't qualify as trans, or don't want the label - personally, I take both)

Intrestingly enough is that almost all regrets came from MTF's. FTM dissatisfaction with top surgery barely shows on the radar.

I'm sure the regret for breast augmentation is also low. Let's compare apples with apples. Comparing SRS for MtFs with mastectomy is apples and oranges.

"I received SRS several months ago and I have little sensation and depth. I need to know how to reverse this surgery and become a man again".

This seems like a botched surgery, which does/can happen, and should be the responsability of the surgeon (he or she is getting paid 12,000-20,000+ right off to do it, you should expect something good). Sometimes patients/clients have no recourse for reparative surgery for botched surgeries (depending on surgeons, more and more offer repairs free of charge).

We have to differentiate regrets due to a botched surgery with regrets like Samantha/Charles Kane which are about living that way.

[Guest amie]

I'm going to Thailand and won't require proof of RLT for 2 years for it. Only 6 months after name change and a letter from my endocrinologist would be sufficient.

Coolness to the max!!! Try and visit Phuket while there...you've heard of the see to the bottom water, right? Well, it's there, Sweety. Good Luck.

[Guest Leah1026]

Coolness to the max!!! Try and visit Phuket while there...you've heard of the see to the bottom water, right? Well, it's there, Sweety. Good Luck.

Ummm she will be recovering from major surgery. Being a tourist is not really going to at the top of her agenda. Her mobility and energy levels will be limited, especially in the first few weeks.

[Guest Little Sara]

Ummm she will be recovering from major surgery. Being a tourist is not really going to at the top of her agenda. Her mobility and energy levels will be limited, especially in the first few weeks.

Well if I'm lucky I go there before the end of the Mayan calendar (Dec 2012), but I'm not even expecting that. Would be nice to have the op before I'm 35... (I'm turning 27 this summer).

[Guest N. Jane]

In "the old days", being recommended accepted for SRS was a lot about "passability" and that tied pretty strongly to having lived as a woman for some period of time. The shrinks looked for "thoughtful consideration of the consequences" and the surgeon looked for a candidate who was "easy and natural" as a woman.

By today's standard, that would be quite unacceptable to many people but I seriously doubt there were many who regretted their decision in those days. If you could find them today, they would probably say it was necessary and was the best thing they ever did. I know I would.