I had no choice but to watch in silence :(

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

This is not going to be a happy thread. Alas, it was heart breaking to watch and given where I was and my current situation, there was nothing I really could do about it.

A few days ago, I was in Minot ND at a truck stop. I was getting ready to hit the road, so I ran inside to get lunch for later. As I'm walking through the truck stop, I passed by a number of trucks fueling. One truck in particular had a guy wearing a long pink and black zig-zag striped dress. I noticed the dress first, because it was so unusual. I noticed the person after. Now this is probably not going to be a very popular description of the guy, but from my perspective, it was a guy in a dress. I know, I know. I looked for signs that maybe he was trying to pass, or was attempting to pass. Nothing. It was just a guy...wearing a dress. As I passed by him, my only thought was "well that's unusual."

Remember, I'm in North Dakota. Red state ND. Oil well drilling ND. Conservative out in the middle of nowhere, this town is the biggest thing in 90 miles any direction ND. This isn't San Francisco.

So I went inside and did what I came in for. As I'm deciding between Subway or the deli for lunch, I look to my right and there's the guy standing in line at the cash register. Y'all, this is where my heart started to sink. But there was nothing I could do about it.

I decided on Subway, and made my way over to the counter and started placing my order. Half way through, one lady who starts the sandwiches passes me over to the other lady who does the vegetables and I hear her greet another customer. I look to my left and there's the guy. There's nothing I can do except pretend to be oblivious.

From what I could tell by being a casual "pretending not to eavesdrop but actually eavesdropping" observer, he was treated with courtesy and politeness like any other customer.

Once my sandwich was paid for, I decided to get some soup from the deli so I prepared some in a to go bowl, put a lid on it and walked over to the deli counter to pay for it. The guy with the dress on paid for his sandwiches and left.

As he left, the lady from the deli counter looked up at me with that "what the heck was that?" look. I just shrugged and commented that I saw him while walking in here. Then, the lady at Subway rushed over to the convenience store side and ran up to the lady who was the cashier. The only part of the conversation I heard was "omg did you see that?"

Y'all. There was nothing I could do except watch in silence.

Could I have taken a firm stance and scolded the ladies about their immature attitude? I could have. Would it have changed anything? I doubt it. Would it have enlightened them to the variety of the gender spectrum? Most likely not. Would it have made them more open-minded to people different than they are? I highly doubt it. Would it have outed me in the process? Possibly.

I'm just doing my best to try and blend in and be accepted and not make it incredibly obvious that there's something different about me. Unfortunately because of this, I cannot stand up for others who are targets of jokes, laughs, and mean comments.

Would I have? I would have made a comment about how it's not weird or gross, it's just different.

...but I was in North Dakota. They're not as progressive as other parts of the country.

Sadly, it was safer for me to just do nothing.

[Carolyn Marie]

Lizzie, you did nothing wrong by staying silent. Given the total circumstances, I agree that there was little else you could have done, and nothing you said would have made it any better for the other customer, since he had already departed. I think he was fortunate to have been treated well while he was in the store.

In a perfect world, no one would have paid any mind, or commented, or rolled an eye, and been perfectly OK with it. But when has it been a perfect world? We do the best we can, we stay safe, we survive. There are other scenarios where I would have done something different, for example, if he was being verbally harassed or assaulted. But if I were standing were you were at the time, I would have done the same.

We can't know what is in another's mind, or judge motivations. I've seen a cross dresser who showed up at the museum in much the same sort of outfit and three day stubble, and was out and proud about it. She was treated fine, too. We are all different. We do what we can when we can. You did just fine.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[VickySGV]

I don't think I could have said anything in behalf of the dress wearer either in those circumstances. If they were polite and helpful to the person, that at least was a start. Guns were not pulled from behind the counter at least, and tire irons were not swung at a human head or body. That is an improvement over what might have happened. I wish I knew, I wish I knew what to do there as well.

[Guest alexaz]

Yeah lizzie

I too think 'what if I were there'

Im very verbal when it comes to disrespect. It just urks me when that happens.

But as you said. He came He went and nobody said anything to him so there really wasnt anything to say about that.

As far as after he left........ Im not so sure I wouldnt have said anything like you did. Im not saying you did anything wrong, You didnt and you were right, I have a way of saying things sometimes when I really shouldnt.

Only thing that comes to mind for me to their comments is " Well at least he didnt comment on how weird you are to him"

Maybe it would have made them stop and think about it maybe not. One can only hope it would.

Heres wishing the best for the man in a dress.

alexaz

[Guest Raya]

Well, again I'm a contrarian. I don't think this is an unhappy thread- I think it's pretty awesome that this guy was bold enough to present this way, and that he was treated with respect. It seems to me the gossip after (the little we know) could have occurred , to a lesser extent, with any avant gard or way out fashion on anyone. Some people talk about people, regardless.

I'm glad he wasn't harrassed, and it gives me hope.

[tracy_j]

I don't think you did anything wrong at all Liz, as a situation like that could escalate to be really nasty in a moment. Doing nothing just left it at comments but to raise a challenge may have been dangerous, if not for you for the dress wearer. I find people seem to have a trigger point. Up to that they can cope but beyond they become very unpredictable as they feel they have to act. Without knowing the motives of the person wearing the dress you maybe could get into a conflicting situation anyway. Many of us have been in a similar situation, especially in the early days and have learnt much from it. I will admit though there are places in the world that would not be good to experiment in, and even here a truck stop is not a place to do anything to attact attention.

I would agree with Tracy. It was bold to go out like that and good that all went well. I also think though, it does highlight the fact that doing something out of the ordinary can cause repucussions with other lives which may not be realised. Not much we can allow ourselves to worry about but does show that with relations with others things are not always simple or predictable.

Tracy

[Cyndee]

:)

I've been to ND and this story ended better than I could have imagined.

It's all good....

Happy trails to you Lizzie

C -

[Guest LizMarie]

Lizzie, each of us has to make decisions that not only consider others but ourselves as well. Your choice wasn't wrong. Let go of that. And as you said, there's probably nothing you could have done with people like that anyway.

*hugs*

[Guest Mickey]

I think I would've said something to them, like, "I'm real proud of y'all for being so respectful of them while they were in here. I know it takes a LOT of courage for them to dress in a way they wish, that doesn't fit societal norms. And I am so happy that all y'all were so nice and respectful to them while they were in here. Y'all have a nice day now, ya hear. " And then went on my way, letting them stew on that. They'd likely be talking about me when I left as well. But who cares. It's not like MY happiness depends on anybody BUT me. So what do they matter anyway.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

You gotta do what's right for you, nothing wrong with that. I really wouldn't have said anything either because I live in a small rural college town and I have done pretty well that everyone who knows me here thinks I am a ciswoman.. I try to avoid trans-topics most of the time, even when some of the guys I know here make trans-jokes (the kind of jokes people tell when they don't think there is any trans people in ear shot). For me it's about avoiding drama in my already busy and stressful life here.

While it is important to say something, like others have said this person was treated respectfully. You can't control what others say and think out of earshot, and you would have just caused your self grief by attempting to do so.

[Guest]

These days, as long as the 'guy' in the dress is happ, good for 'him'. As for the gossipers, it doesn's sound like they said a thing to the 'guy' in the dress nor did they say anything derogatory about 'him'. I don't have an intrinsic problem with people being a bit surprised or talking among themselves, as long as respect is given, especially in a podunk place like Minot!

Again, if 'he's' happy, then good for him. To be quite honest, since I've started embracing my true self, I have worked very hard to not judge or be surprised by any one in terms of what makes them happy. I've not only changed in terms of trying to be me, but also in trying to be a better, more supportive person, girl?

Whatever I am, and frankly I still don't know at this point, I'm happier than ever and seeing other people being hapy makes me so very hapy that sometimes I wan't to cry.

*hugs*

-Fiona

[Guest]

I think you handled the situation the best you could, Lizzie.

Huggs,

Joann

[Guest noeleena]

Hi.

Well I wonder what the reception would be for myself . would I be seen as a female or woman or a dresser or as you said a male in a dress. how was his voice how did he interact with others around him ,

my ? would be was he trying to be like a woman or just a male in a dress what about shoes makeup earings a wig maybe .

And maybe he was just doing it as a prank or for fun or just wore dress,s .

You see im a female and don't look much like one male facial features yet how I interact with others is as any normal female my voice is okay and no makeup no wig if the two women saw me and interacted with me they would know im female , = [perception.,

Oh whats that ???........ they say ,

well is it any wonder they say what they did you see most normal men don't wear dress.s or skirts yet we who are Scot,s do just called Kilt,s ,

western socity has been groomed and taught to think this way because of fashion , go back to Renaissance times and before then they would never say whats that, what was worn then was normal ,

...noeleena...

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

would be was he trying to be like a woman or just a male in a dress what about shoes makeup earings a wig maybe .

None of that. I'm very observant and I looked for anything to denote that he was trying to pass. I actually thought about it before writing this because I wasn't sure what gender pronouns to use, so I went with male because I didn't see any clues or hints that he was trying to look the part.

It really got me thinking about Drea's thread from a few days earlier about if we really pass or if people are just being polite.

[Guest noeleena]

Hi Lizzie.

Do we have to comment all the time in what we see, or think we see, >>>> the two women , in ...Oh.... whats that ...it was different = he looked different in those clothes , okay

Do we really pass well I,ll only speak for myself , or are people polite.

1500 people in our groups if they have any thing to say will . make no mistake on that I talk to every one and they sure know me as a person and what I do with in our groups front line in their face all the time no way out of that ,

.are they being polite , may be a few are most just talk with me as being quite normal and nothing different about myself , and its not about clothes or garb. as we all dress differently much of the time , with what we do and in front of many 100s of people some know us and others don't , so is being polite or is this acceptance of us as knowing this is what we do,

On my own I dress differently and talk to many people and some don't know me yet all I see is acceptance ,

I think some here will see passing or blending in a bit different from myself in as much that im female and not passing or blending in yet accepted fully, I see more to it than how I look in clothes its about personality manerisms and who I am as a person ,

I know whats really importaint and that is my interaction with people .

How do you see it what makes it for you , is it clothes makeup shoes hair or wig, just in looks , or are you including personality as well and that covers really a lot more , spos im trying to see the what makes you ....YOU....

...noeleena...

[Guest alexaz]

Lizzie

Its really to bad that we cant openly talk with each other without odd feelings.

It would have been nice to talk with this man in a dress and find out where he was at.

I know that sounds snoopy or inappropriate but sometimes people just need to talk with others like themselves out there in the world.

I may be way off base here but I would welcome someone coming up to me and introducing themselves as trans and wanting to "just talk "

We share so many things and to identify with others just makes me feel like Im not so weird or different from others.

I need that feeling sometimes.

Just my 2 cents worth

alexaz

[Guest G-A-L-E]

Hello everyone, just because a person (man) is wearing a longer outfit (dress) does not instantly clock one as transgender. Case in point, super high profile live TV event I covered recently had the MC wearing a long white black-stripped dress. Yes it seemed bizarre since it was a RAP concert. He sported a beard, no female mannerisms, makeup or anything else to move him out of the guy wearing a dress category. If one wants me or others to give them the 'OK that's a start', then they need to try. I understand the importance of not feeling alone but how am I expected to feel safe initiating interaction when it appears questionable?

Misery loves company!

EOM

[Guest Kayla Grace]

Women. They drive me nuts sometimes. Talking to some is a pleasure, like all of you are; whereas saying one word to others just gives them ammunition to use against you later in the HenHouse.

What would I have done? Depending on my mood, nothing, or I would have scolded them and tell them to be respectful of others. Nowadays it's the latter as opposed to the former. I'm generally more touchy about the LGBTQ spectrum now that I'm classified as one, but also because I've come out of my shell.

Did you do anything wrong? I don't know. Given the information you said, they probably would have done the same thing if a girl with whacky rainbow coloured hair ordered. Gossip annoys me.

God Bless, Loves

Kayla <3

[Guest Kate]

Lizzie,

I agree with Sarah, you did nothing wrong. Being part of a minority doesn't obligate one to be an activist. I'm not about to let someone come to harm if there's something I can do about it but it's not my job to point it out every time another person is being an idiot, if I did there'd never be time for anything else. I would have done the same as you, refuse to participate in the gossip.

Kate

[Guest KerryUK]

I think you did the right thing Lizzie. In that situation, I would probably have replied to the 'raised OMG eyebrow look' with a quick "each and everyone to their own" remark. It wouldn't out me and would also say to them in a quick and respectful way that you didn't care how he presented and nor should they. I also think that it's quite good that you seemed to 'pass' to them because they wouldn't have done what they did if you hadn't have 'passed'. Good on you girl.

Kerry x.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Thank you for the responses everyone. I think what made me sad at first was when I saw the person outside, I didn't think much of it, but when I suddenly turned and saw them inside in line at the register, I just knew what was going to happen. Then when I turned later and they were nearby me at Subway, I continued to have that sinking feeling.

[Sakura]

Silence is often the wiser choice to make. Nothing you could have said or really done in that situation.

In the years and years I have been in transition I have been confronted with only a handful of such situations. The worst was where I work . We get alot of temporary workers at my job. one such temp was a trans type person . I spotted her on the way in since new temps are not allowed a badge to get into the building . they have to stand out side and wait for a supervisior to let them in. Every one was oblivious to this person and I thought to my self " well they pass well enough , if they keep thier head down there should be no problem " She was maybe 5'4 105 pounds fairly attractive . baring her voice, which I did not hear. there should have been no problems for her.

....well, It was not long before the gossip began getting around the floor of the dude who looks like a girl. jokes of crossdressers bengan flying about , talks from the men there of them trying to nominate one of the other guys to walk up and grab her crotch area , "just to be sure" . some of the vulgarity I heard from both the men and women there in regards to this person would make you sick . I remained quiet for the most part . I only inquired to one thing " how did they find out ? " was it her voice ? did she tell some one ? was it her mannerisims ? ..... Nope apparently one of the material handlers there went to use the restroom . He walks in to be confronted by this person standing at the urinal peeing. He told her " eeeerm this is the men's room" and she told him " I am a man " .....

There temp assignment was terminated with in a few days . it took weeks for the gossip to die down. I had plenty of time and oppertunity to interject or correct . but I chose to stay quiet . laugh at the jokes threw gritted teeth . There was nothing I could do. and the fear of outting my self to defend them. just completely overrided my need to defend them. I felt bad about it. But my sense of self preservation is much stronger than my sense or need to be an activist.

[Guest Kayla Grace]

Silence is often the wiser choice to make. Nothing you could have said or really done in that situation.

In the years and years I have been in transition I have been confronted with only a handful of such situations. The worst was where I work . We get alot of temporary workers at my job. one such temp was a trans type person . I spotted her on the way in since new temps are not allowed a badge to get into the building . they have to stand out side and wait for a supervisior to let them in. Every one was oblivious to this person and I thought to my self " well they pass well enough , if they keep thier head down there should be no problem " She was maybe 5'4 105 pounds fairly attractive . baring her voice, which I did not hear. there should have been no problems for her.

....well, It was not long before the gossip began getting around the floor of the dude who looks like a girl. jokes of crossdressers bengan flying about , talks from the men there of them trying to nominate one of the other guys to walk up and grab her crotch area , "just to be sure" . some of the vulgarity I heard from both the men and women there in regards to this person would make you sick . I remained quiet for the most part . I only inquired to one thing " how did they find out ? " was it her voice ? did she tell some one ? was it her mannerisims ? ..... Nope apparently one of the material handlers there went to use the restroom . He walks in to be confronted by this person standing at the urinal peeing. He told her " eeeerm this is the men's room" and she told him " I am a man " .....

What the actual truck, Sakura? I don't think I'll be done scratching my head with this one for a while ... in the men's room ... standing .... "I am a man" ...

....

What?

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

There was nothing I could do. and the fear of outting my self to defend them. just completely overrided my need to defend them. I felt bad about it. But my sense of self preservation is much stronger than my sense or need to be an activist.

I totally get that, and I'm the same way. Had she done something great, you could comment in support but had she done something bad, you'd want to distance yourself from that person as much as possible. Don't want to be guilty by association. Nothing like people at work finding out you're transgender also for them to possibly say "So are you going to stand to pee at the urinal, too?" because, naturally, if one of us does it....we all must do it. I'd try to distance myself from that type of generalization, too.

[Guest KerryUK]

........well, I walks in to be confronted by this person standing at the urinal peeing. He told her " eeeerm this is the men's room" and she told him " I am a man " .....

Well, I hate to say this but I'm afraid that this sort of behaviour sickens me. It's this sort of thing which gives the bigots their excuses to harass, intimidate and bully us. If 'he' (yes, I feel justified in mis pronouning him) felt that he had to stand to pee, the least he could have done out of respect for others (both trans and cis) was to go and use a cubicle. Jeez, I'm soooooo cross - selfish git.