I had no choice but to watch in silence :(

[Guest Of Whitby]

Well, maybe it was a guilt trip that put them in a place where they felt they had to use a male restroom, no?

Though the idea of using the urinal seems a bit off, that's for sure. Hard to weigh in on such an odd situation.

[Guest Razilee]

It reminds me of my time in North Dakota. The best experience was at the local science fiction club's convention, which welcomed dressing up. Since I was bearded then and had to show up that evening for work I did the best I could. I wore the belly dancer costume that I'd been working on and wearing in my apartment for a while and added a female chimp mask from Planet of the Apes, so it looked like the beard was part of the mask. I got chosen to be in the cantina skit with some other "beauties" where Han Solo and James Kirk competed for us. (Kirk won.) I got to hang with the girls for a while, but eventually my voice gave me away. They didn't scream or anything, but they were surprised. I was just a bit more creative with my costume that they were. I had to get to work, but it was fun while it lasted. I don't know what they said behind my back though.

It's good not to take it too seriously (unless, of course, it does become a matter of life or death.)

Love,

Raz

[Guest Mickey]

Maybe this person IS a man, I mean they did say they were a man. And why are we judging a man simply because he wants dress and look like a woman? Personally I am glad that he chose to use the mens restroom. It keeps the "man in a dress" out of the womens restroom. It is not up to me to judge any person for any reason. Especially the way they choose to dress. I've suffered from that for way too long to ever wish to impose it on another human being.

[Sakura]

I am not judging this person for thier actions though I must say it did anger me. as it started a quasi witch hunt there at work . and any slightly masculine female was called into question. It caused a gay panic of sorts or I should say trans panic. and here I am sitting in the middle of a very toxic situation.

But an ironic situation happened the other day at work. I work 12 hour shifts so my shift comes into contact with night shift. While on my way in passing by the lockers . I was passed by and sorry if this offensive , a man dressed as a woman . I know of the person though I have never spoken to him , he is openly gay though I do know that much.

I was not at my machine 10 minutes before this boy I joke around with often comes running up to me " did you see that dude dressed like a chick ? " I just said yeah" I saw it" he goes " well bruce genner came out so I guess they all need to now " I chuckled and just shook my head but in side i was like " uuuuuuuhg " threw out the day . the leading topic was trans people , well I should say the joke. one of the mechanics I am friendly with was like " did you see that guy from the other shift this morning " I told him yeah . he said " thats just wierd " I said " yeah maybe a little.... , what do you find wierd about it ? " he said " I don't know i just don't know how to act around those types of people " I said " those types of people ? " he said yeah , you know queers. I donlt like the idea of a guy finding me sexy " I told him " well if that isn;t a testament to the male ego I don't know what is lol " he asked me what I meant , I said " well it seems to me that all men think they are gods gift to everything , so much so that even gay men want to jump in the sack with them " I managed to change the subject .

but my girl friends at work had to offer there two cents about it before the day was out. ranging from anything from it being wierd to it being disgusting. some where indifferent . I took that route . I said " It is the 21st century. I don't care if some one is gay or a cross dresser . if it is not hurting anyone else or they are not a jerk to me . I really don;t care what they do it is thier choice it is their life ". One of the girls goes yeah but what if they start using our bath room. i said "... well so long as he puts the seat down when they are done . I'm fine with it " I know it was a joke that was in bad taste . but I was trying to fien some amount of ignorance and defend thier right to be them selves with out drawing to much attention to my self.

Uuuuhg, I hope this blows over quickly. What really irritates me is, we have alot of butch lesbiens that work there. for the most part they are well liked. but the few gay men or a few trans type people who pass threw. and it instantly gets every one bent out of shape.

Being an insider , sitting and listening to these people. and knowing there is really nothing I can say or do and knowing that I call alot of these people friends. It is just disheartening to me.

[Guest Mickey]

I am sorry you have to deal with this Sakura. It sounds like a truly toxic environment. I will keep you in my prayers. And I hope you can find some place better. That just doesn't sound like any fun at all.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Being an insider , sitting and listening to these people. and knowing there is really nothing I can say or do and knowing that I call alot of these people friends. It is just disheartening to me.

Honestly.. I've learned to just let the trans jokes slide at this point. Most people on campus (college) are pretty accepting, but at the same time trans jokes and commentary is not all that uncommon. Really I barely knew who Jenner was before all of this started.. and now suddenly it's this thing everyone is talking about and I'm already tired of hearing about it (from both the cheerleaders and the jokes and such). I swear today alone I've had friends post Jenner transition memes on my facebook page at least 4 of them. I'm not really going to dig in on them either.. firstly because I have no desire to out my self, and like you these are my friends. Fortunately it's summer so most of my friends are on the West side of the state, it is my hope that this will be old news by the time Fall semester rolls around.

[Drea]

What stands out to me the person was served respectfully despite being in rural middle of nowhere conservative republican state.

Even you describe this person as a "guy in a dress".

You got some insight into someone else's shock about the presentation. Was that a comment about trans? Or was it commentary on that one person's presentation? Maybe the person commenting recognized you as trans and didn't connect you with that "guy in a dress" as you say?

More importantly, do you think people in a liberal democratic area would have likely thinking "oh that person is just great looking?". I grant in certain cities, certain areas people might be so jaded at seeing people present in non-conventional ways to shrug and it isn't worth commenting to anyone else about it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't see it is weird. And there are plenty in liberal areas who would feel exactly like that person who commented to you although perhaps out of political correctness just wouldn't say something. The thought is still the same.

In the context of that situation the biggest factor in play isn't political ideology, but rather a person presenting that way is such an uncommon sight out in rural North Dakota.

People, right or wrong, judge others all the time for how they look, how they dress, how they present. The more unusual the stronger the reaction.

What would you have said? Typical response of people when someone says something they don't agree with is sort of nod, acknowledge or otherwise deflect and move on. Would you have leaped to the conclusion they were transphobes? Did that "guy in a dress" even identify as transgender? Maybe just say "I thought he was cool"? Wait that could be rude, say "I thought she was cool"? Taken them to take for referring to the person as "that"? Although that could have referred to dress and presentation. Now if they referred to the person as "it" that be easier to respond to.

I might have said something like "I thought that was an awesome dress"

I have intervened in a situation. That was a much more clear cut one however. Oh and by the way it was in a big liberal democrat area.

In that situation it was several teens laughing and actively taunting a trans woman who walked past and they started to follow here at a distance. I was behind them when she went past. A "whats so funny guys?" from behind shamed them and distracted them enough that the girl they were taunting was able to move off. No doubt they recognized me as trans. Guys like that like to taunt and laugh among themselves but aren't prepared to be taken to task for it.

[Guest KerryUK]

Very well put Drea.

Kerry x

[Sakura]

Thank you for your concern carla. I have been working at this place for three and a half years now . The fact is with out a better education any where I go would have these types of people. I can say however that working there being able to maintain annonimity with my trans status among these people, has taught me alot .

Truthfully sarah . I didn't know who bruce jenner was . I just asked my hubby today. what the hell is he even famous for ? I mean I had heard some jokes on the radio but I didn't pay it much mind. There had been a few jokes about it at work . Like you I typically do let most of it roll off my back. I am usually fairly hard to offend and my skin is thick . But when things like this strike so close to home it feels like the spot light is suddenly upon you . You know ?

I know what you mean Drea to me it seems to be more a shock to the unusual . or the fact that it is suddenly in their face. Most peoples encounters with a trans type person is from the safty of thier sofas on tv . then when it is in front of them it is like " OMG it is one of those people ??!! " im sure they went home told thier friends about it as it was likely the highlight to an other wise drab work day.

[Guest Sarah Faith]

Thank you for your concern carla. I have been working at this place for three and a half years now . The fact is with out a better education any where I go would have these types of people. I can say however that working there being able to maintain annonimity with my trans status among these people, has taught me alot .

Truthfully sarah . I didn't know who bruce jenner was . I just asked my hubby today. what the hell is he even famous for ? I mean I had heard some jokes on the radio but I didn't pay it much mind. There had been a few jokes about it at work . Like you I typically do let most of it roll off my back. I am usually fairly hard to offend and my skin is thick . But when things like this strike so close to home it feels like the spot light is suddenly upon you . You know ?

I know what you mean Drea to me it seems to be more a shock to the unusual . or the fact that it is suddenly in their face. Most peoples encounters with a trans type person is from the safty of thier sofas on tv . then when it is in front of them it is like " OMG it is one of those people ??!! " im sure they went home told thier friends about it as it was likely the highlight to an other wise drab work day.

Yeah I hear you. This is probably why the exact reason I get as annoyed when I do (when other trans people seem to get really excited) that trans stuff is the main headline. It feels like thats all people want to talk about, and since none of them know my trans history they talk about it like they would with anyone else. It leaves me in a situation like I said where I need to figure out how to respond with out outing my self. I normally know how to handle any situation, but this just makes me somewhat uncomfortable. Fortunately I actually do have trans family members who are far more out than I.. So I can often just use them as a reference for opinions on the subject.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

What would you have said?

I would have shrugged my shoulders and said "Doesn't bother me, whatever makes you happy."

[Drea]

What would you have said?

I would have shrugged my shoulders and said "Doesn't bother me, whatever makes you happy."

If that is all you would have said, I guess my question now is why did you feel compelled not to just say that? To remain silent?

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Because I pick my battles. If I don't think it's going to do anything or be worth it, I just don't bother. if my little monologue about acceptance and understanding is just going to fall on deaf ears then all I did was just waste my time. sometimes it's just not worth the energy.

[Drea]

My apologies Lizzie. I took your statement that you would have said "Doesn't bother me, whatever makes you happy" quite literally. Since that statement expresses your opinion and nothing accusatory of the other person. It certainly could make the other person think different.

My concern was why suppress such a simple statement. I see lots in the community suppress saying things because of how they will be perceived or because of presumptions made about the persons acceptance, or over fears that may be totally unfounded.

But I guess what you meant was that would be a first statement leading into a whole lecture about acceptance and understanding. Yeah, I get that, not worth it.

[Guest]

Silence is often the wiser choice to make. Nothing you could have said or really done in that situation.

In the years and years I have been in transition I have been confronted with only a handful of such situations. The worst was where I work . We get alot of temporary workers at my job. one such temp was a trans type person . I spotted her on the way in since new temps are not allowed a badge to get into the building . they have to stand out side and wait for a supervisior to let them in. Every one was oblivious to this person and I thought to my self " well they pass well enough , if they keep thier head down there should be no problem " She was maybe 5'4 105 pounds fairly attractive . baring her voice, which I did not hear. there should have been no problems for her.

....well, It was not long before the gossip began getting around the floor of the dude who looks like a girl. jokes of crossdressers bengan flying about , talks from the men there of them trying to nominate one of the other guys to walk up and grab her crotch area , "just to be sure" . some of the vulgarity I heard from both the men and women there in regards to this person would make you sick . I remained quiet for the most part . I only inquired to one thing " how did they find out ? " was it her voice ? did she tell some one ? was it her mannerisims ? ..... Nope apparently one of the material handlers there went to use the restroom . He walks in to be confronted by this person standing at the urinal peeing. He told her " eeeerm this is the men's room" and she told him " I am a man " .....

There temp assignment was terminated with in a few days . it took weeks for the gossip to die down. I had plenty of time and oppertunity to interject or correct . but I chose to stay quiet . laugh at the jokes threw gritted teeth . There was nothing I could do. and the fear of outting my self to defend them. just completely overrided my need to defend them. I felt bad about it. But my sense of self preservation is much stronger than my sense or need to be an activist.

While in a perfect world this probably shouldn't matter, but in the world we live in now, she's doing all trans people a disservice. If you are presenting as a particular gender, the present all the way.

I guess it's possible that this person was concerned about the problems that arise from using restrooms. What a quandary......

[Guest Kayla Grace]

I was thinking the same thing, Fiona.

I understand that not everyone has the same surgical goals as me, but you could at least save yourself the gossip and the spotlight (in a very, very bad way). It does rise the question of if this person was presenting female, why wouldn't they use the stall? I've sat since before I went full time, and it's just a natural thing for me now.

In my going on 3 months of working at my current job, I've picked up a few things.

- people are going to have opinions that are unshakable no matter what. Perhaps they may change, but don't hold your breath

- talking to women can be a dangerous thing. Some women will pretend to like you (or some might be open about their dislike) and talking to them will just give them ammunition to use against you later

- If someone doesn't know, don't tell them. It was certainly an odd week when Andrea made the "look, it's here" comment. I had this one lady, very sweet girl, ask me if I complained about her and I said no (technically I didn't even know until I found out), then she was saying "I don't know how they don't like you here". I said

"I do, you don't see it?"

"...No?"

I smiled, and said for her not to worry about it. In my mind, if they don't know, don't tell them. To this day she and I still haven't had the "trans" conversation, and unless she brings it up, we never will. All it does is cause trouble unfortunately. I wish it were different, but it often becomes the only thing they see. "She used to be a guy!?"

I might even go so far as to say that trans folk should only date other trans. As bad as that sounds, there will be literally nobody else that would understand them to the level that they wish to be understood at.

[Guest Mickey]

I don't feel any need to be understood. I do have a strong desire and need to be _accepted_ as a woman. I don't care if they know I am trans, the case is, they most likely do know. And at times it takes some talking for them to come to accept me, even if they can't really understand me. Some never will, and that is _not_ my loss. Rather it is their loss, for I am a fabulous woman and a joy to be around. In my own humble opinion, of course.