...or he was just a transphobic jerk.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

I don't even know where to begin with this guy. I joined a facebook group of an unofficial page of truck drivers for my company. It was mainly to build some camaraderie and meet other drivers because I like meeting people and I like having friends. This group consists of current drivers, trainees, students in the driving program and people considering coming to our company. For the most part, it's pretty decent. However, one thing I cannot stand is people passing along incorrect information, especially when it comes to company-related things or truck driving in general. Sadly, this isn't taken too kindly because I can be a bit sarcastic in my delivery of correcting erroneous information.

It just so happened this one fella, I'll call him R, didn't take too kindly to me correcting him on something. When I pointed out an error in his answer to a question, he became a little defensive. Not one to back down from an Internet disagreement, I stood my ground. When he questioned if I was male or female, I of course responded that I was female. (I mean, it's facebook, you can see my name and my profile picture is quite clearly me. It's one of my better pictures, actually!) He accused me, based on my sarcastic response to him, that I must be a guy. Well this went on back and forth, him accusing me of being a guy, me defending that I'm a woman. He demanded proof that I was female. When I wouldn't give him any, then the transphobic insults came out including being called a shim, it, a dude dressing like a girl but still acting like a dude, and he refused to refer to me as a woman until I proved to him that I was female. In fact, he went out of his way to capitalize the word MAN and that I was "acting like a D**K".

It got to the point where I started taking screen captures on my phone in case I needed to go to HR about this, I mean, it was bordering on sexual harassment at this point. I didn't know if my company could do anything about online harassment from a fellow coworker, but I thought collecting evidence just in case would be a smart decision. Also HR told me when I was first hired if anyone gives me a hard time about being transgender to come to them about it, so I had that in my favor as well.

Then, a momentum-changing turn of events happened. A mutual friend who I had just met a few days earlier chimed in. He commented that he met me in person, and he could verify that I was in fact female and never once did he question what gender I was. This was good enough for R because he's friends with him so that was sufficient enough for him to believe that I am in fact female and he should start using the correct pronouns. He apologized and deleted all of his offensive comments.

...which is nice but I already have them saved to my phone which I then downloaded onto my laptop into a special folder. You know, just in case. But I digress...

However, it made me think. This guy, R, would not believe me that I'm female (to my knowledge, he never questioned any of the other women in the group about their gender) and it wasn't until a mutual guy friend chimed in that he changed his tone. Basically, R believed another guy's opinion over mine, as if mine wasn't good enough. Ugh!

I also started thinking about the "you're a dude, dressing like a woman, coming at me like a dude" comment. It's almost as if he expects me, of all people, to not vocalize disagreement, not correct him, but basically just shut up and look pretty. Any time I disagreed with this guy, the insults began again. I apparently could not disagree with him ever.

Sadly, this has affected me in future postings. I've decided instead to sweeten my responses and cut down on the sarcasm. When I try to answer someone's question, R seems to show up and say something different. I don't try to correct him now because I don't want the insults to start again. Basically I've learned instead of standing up for what's right, to just shut up and look pretty. That's apparently all I'm supposed to do. It sucks and I hate it but I don't want to be insulted again.

As a side "huh?!" note, the day after R apologized to me and everything was back to being all nice and pleasant again, he began messaging me on facebook, commenting that people think he and I like each other. I nearly spit water all over my phone when I read this but he honestly believed, despite the day before, that I actually had a thing for him. It's like now that he knows I'm a woman, suddenly he wants in my pants! Trust me, he's going nowhere near them. I made it perfectly clear that I only think of him as a coworker and nothing else.

He's got a lot of nerve, that's for sure...

(sorry for the length and all the drama. Being as close to stealth as possible, I don't really have anywhere else to talk about this besides here)

p.s. I sent the mutual guy friend a thank you message on facebook thanking him for saying what he did and I really appreciated it.

[VickySGV]

The goofer's idea of what male behavior should be like needs to have adjustment with a tire-iron or maybe a lug nut wrench. Welcome to thw world of womanhood in the ugly lane.

[Guest KerryUK]

What an interesting post Lizzie and thanks for adding it.

What a complete and utter tosser. Unfortunately, as a woman, sarcasm doesn't go down too well if used in a confrontational way towards guys. - it seems to raise their hackles and makes them get quite nasty. I myself am quite a sarcastic person and I've learned it can occasionally backfire on me too.

To be honest, he should have been reported to HR because his behaviour was abusive - but that's your decision. I think it's still alarming that he apologised ONLY when your friend informed him that you ARE female - if your friend hadn't stepped in, he would have continued the abuse. What about somebody else in a similar situation who doesn't have a friend like you had?

Regarding the sudden admiration he has for you - well, I really don't know what to say. I really can't fathom them out. They think 'anything in a skirt and with a pulse' must surely fancy them. Jeez, he's just been downright abusive to you and so because he's apologised you are now expected to swoon when he makes advances towards you? Hmmmm. MEN.

[Guest Kayla Grace]

Suddenly that you're a real girl now Lizzie, you just want the D. His D. It's probably the most irritating thing I've ever come across - besides the cattiness of females to other females, but that's a different story entirely.

A second annoyance I have is APPARENTLY just changing that M to an F on my license will grant me paying 200 p/m for insurance instead of 290. While I'm happy about this reduction, I'm somewhat peed. Just for identifying as female gives me lower insurance. AND that will drop drastically when I hit 25. Considering all the things we have to put up with (case in point, Lizzie), I guess we deserve some kind of break somewhere.

Stay safe,

Kayla <3

[Charlize]

I come to the old rhetoric from early feminist days; Male chauvinistic pig. It seems to fit this character. I rarely worked with long haul truckers but i remember all the dirt jockeys running tandems weren't the brightest bulbs in the pack. When they would come on to a fill on the interstate i was working on i would notice that hey seemed to live with a pile of porn magazines in the passenger seat,

Women are good for one thing only.

Your in a minority simply being a truck driver not to mention being an outspoken woman. His feeble brain can't take it. Sounds like a person to steer well clear of.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest AllisonRae]

Hi Lizzy, Boy R would definitely not be able to take my first wife. Not only would she throw sarcasm at a guy without batting a eyelash but I seen her go toe to toe with guys in arguements and insult contest and come out the victor. Matter of fact you handled things far more gracefully than she would of. A note about my ex, physically she and I were almost identical size, we shared clothes when we were married. I had people that thought she was my sister, lol

I have to totally agree with Charlize's take on this.

Hugs

Allison

[Carolyn Marie]

Lizzie, that guy has no idea how lucky he is that you didn't throw the book (not to mention a tire iron) at him. What an insufferable jerk. You did well to restrain yourself, but yeah, keep that evidence safe and close. You may need it someday.

HUGS

Carolyn Marie

[Guest LesleyAnne]

I think you did everything correctly!

Maybe not the sarcasm in the beginning, but you closed all the avenues for this testosterone muddled headed jerk to go. Plus many thanks to that friend!

Show kindness to your enemies it'll drive them crazy, however not too much kindness as this self proclaimed ladies man will undoubtedly think you're into him as you stated. Goodness knows you have no desire for a jerk-wad like that!

Again... good for you lady!

P.S. I also think it's a good idea to keep the evidence

[JJ]

What a narrow little world this guy must have constructed for himself if he thinks sarcasm is the exclusive province of males. Or being strong and standing your ground.

I actually have come at people in male ways all my life-and it caused me a lot of grief from people because it was at odds with my assigned gender but I was never misgendered because of it. Just called a name. A female name more appropriate to canines actually. Men can get away with being more direct and harsher and I'm seen as a much nicer person now even with the same behavior. Especially by that kind of creep who things all women are meek little things to be looked down on and avoid or attack any woman who doesn't fit their mold for them.

Funny thing is other men see that type as jerks as well.

I hope in time you will get back to being just who you are online. Otherwise he won. He changed you and your behavior by being a jerk, In my book he never should have challenged you in the first place. It was a sexist question from the beginning . I'm glad your friend chimed in but ultimately you shouldn't need to prove anything either way to have your opinions and your approach validated.

Good thing you kept the screenshots too. Jerks like this are slow learners and he may try to get nasty again if he fees rejected.

And kudos for handling a situation many would have found devastating. That kind of nastiness is many people's worst nightmare.

Johnny

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Jeez, he's just been downright abusive to you and so because he's apologised you are now expected to swoon when he makes advances towards you? Hmmmm. MEN.

Right? I mean how arrogant can someone get. Did he forget what happened just the day before? On top of that, he told me directly he's not married, however, I have a feeling that he actually is. But I'll save that little gem for when he starts acting up again, especially since she's a member of the group as well, and I don't think anyone knows R and I have talked privately. I could have said something about it today but I'll save this for a more opportune moment.

besides the cattiness of females to other females, but that's a different story entirely.

That is very much person-specific. I mean, I don't do it, my friends don't do it, but there are women who do. It's more of a reflection of them and their insecurities than what they're saying or doing to the other woman. Rise above it and kill 'em with kindness because they hate that. Usually if you're super nice, they feel guilty for being so mean to you.

Lizzie, that guy has no idea how lucky he is that you didn't throw the book (not to mention a tire iron) at him.

Sadly, I have heard from other lady truck drivers who have experienced sexual harassment and they pretty much take it on the chin to prove to the guys that they can deal with it in this male-dominated career field. It shouldn't have to be this way but it's an unfortunate reality.

And kudos for handling a situation many would have found devastating. That kind of nastiness is many people's worst nightmare.

I have experience in handling this kind of nightmare situation. Repeated exposure to it has taught me what and what not to do. Believe me, there have been many times where I've sat at my computer crying because of transphobic internet jerkwads. While I've had to grow a thicker skin, estrogen seems to undo that every now and then.

[Guest]

His name is big R, oh, I know him! On the road and in the way, ROADWAY!

Aside from the actions documented for sexual issues, more important to them could be his fountain of misinformation and your efforts to correct that with factual information. There could be safety or maintenance issues that could cost the company huge bucks by his arrogant lack of skill and knowledge. They will tighten his fanbelt quicker than boy girl squabbles.

I can envision Mr. ROADWAY, pedal mashing, gear crunching, clutch disc slinging, brake block busting, horn blowing supertrucker with curb scrub racing stripes on all his outer tires. He's the Man! The kind you hope are not your slip seater. On handoff, his bunk will stink like you know what, sunflower seed hulls all over the floor, fast food grease all over the steering wheel, gear lever and every knob on the dash.

Greasy, holy, "Keep on truckin'" T-shirt from the seventies, those nasty funky bluejeans that stand up an their own. Yuck, I just want to close every curtain on the cab, the way he sits on the lot learing at women. Creepville! He caused the demise of the CB radio with his endless whining like an unfed puppy, about how his nineteenth wife left him.

Girl you fly so much higher than him in all areas. If he keeps blinking his lights at you, send off that envelope and smash him like a bug on a windshield! JodyAnn

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

So there's an update.

2 weeks after the first night of insults, this person began doing it again, so once again I began taking screen shots of everything. I reached my breaking point and told him if he didn't stop that I would contact human resources. He laughed at that notion, and another co-worker chimed in that even if I did, the company wouldn't be able to do anything because it happened online.

Out of curiosity, I contacted our company to ask if we had any policies regarding sexual harassment via social media. I went to bed that night nervous about what the response would be. Around 4p Friday, I received a voice mail from someone in the company addressing my question and asked that I call her back. So I called her back and we talked for a little bit. I explained what happened and gave several examples. She was very nice and very professional (the lady I talked with on the phone). He asked for his name or truck number, and I spelled out his name for her. She also asked where this took place so I gave her the facebook group in which this took place. She asked what I have done since yesterday about this for myself and I told her I now have him blocked on facebook.

She apologized and empathized with my situation. I explained that in the 4.5 years I've been with this company, this is the first time I've ever had a problem with anyone. I also explained to her that when I was first hired on, I was told that if anyone ever gave me a hard time for being who I am, to come directly to HR and they would take care of it, so sadly, that's the reason why I was contacting her.

She asked if I had evidence of these incidents and I told her that yes, I have screen shots of everything. She gave me her email address and asked me to send her all of the pictures that I have, so once we finished our phone call, I fired up the laptop and sent her the 13 pictures I have. She said this way it's not just a case of "he said/she said".

I don't know what is going to happen this week. I'm a little bit nervous of online retaliation because he has a lot of friends. I also don't know what my company will do about this, if it's just going to be a slap on the wrist and tell him to not contact me, or if it's going to be something more severe. I honestly don't know, but either way I'm nervous about the outcome.

So yeah. I reported someone for sexual harassment.

I thought about mentioning another person who participated but ultimately decided to only report the main culprit who I had the most evidence against. Lucky for me, I managed to take all the screen shots that I needed before the evidence disappeared or threads were deleted. Better safe than sorry, you know?

[Charlize]

Lizzie i'm sorry. You have done the right thing. This person sounds like the big bully on the playground. Letting him know he can't get away with it may well be all it takes to make him back off. There comes a time when enough is too much and you were ready for that day. It sounds like the company has your back. I certainly understand being nervous. I would be. You've done the right thing just hope it works out for the best.

Hugs,

Charlize

[Guest KerryUK]

Hi Lizzie,

Like Charlize, I'm also sorry that you have had to endure this. In my view, you have done the right thing and it took real courage. What I would like to further advise is that any kind of retaliation that you might receive, record it. Dates, times, who did what and what their actions were AND if there were any others present. If further bullying continues, then you have evidence of it. As you've already experienced, evidence is vital.

That bully will likely be warned that their actions will not be tolerated by the Company - if they persist, then they will face disciplinary action.

Hugs

Kerry x

[Guest LesleyAnne]

I am so, so sorry you're having to go through this, it really bothers me that someone like this just can't let go once they find a button to push.

I am very hopeful that your company will do the right thing. But I do worry about this kind of cancer spreading.......I hope not.

Is there any danger of you running into this dipstick out on the road? If so I know you'll be careful, but may I suggest you carry a can of bear spray. They tested this stuff and it will stop a charging bear from 30 ft. away, and you don't have to be a good shot to get results.

I recommended this to my son who has a BBQ restaurant. He gets to his business at 4AM and most of the time doesn't get home till way late in the evening. Of course as a parent I worry all the time (can't help it, it's just the way I am....a worrier), and since he has such a successful business, bad elements know this. Anyway he did get one, and keeps it on a holster when he's filling his pit, and cleaning up at night. Like I said you don't have to be a good shot (remember I was a gunner in Nam, and I didn't have to have a great aim since my 7.62 was a gatling gun and sprayed 6000 rounds per minute) So I prefer a nice wide spray when up against the bad guys.

I seriously care, and just hope you stay safe from this lowlife bully.

Wish I could ride shotgun for ya

Big hug,

LesleyAnne

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Is there any danger of you running into this dipstick out on the road?

The chances are very slim considering he is on a completely different division than I am. Our chances of interacting would only be at one of our company terminals and if we just so happened to be there at the same day.

[Guest KerryUK]

Hi LesleyAnne,

I wish we could get that Bear Spray here in the UK (though so far I haven't had cause to need any). Women in the UK tend to carry small tins of deodorant spray in their handbag for the same reason. Sprayed in the face and eyes of an attacker, it will give enough time to get away to safety.

Kerry

[Guest LesleyAnne]

DesiB, So glad to hear the chances are slim to run into dipstick! But as you mentioned he has lots of friends (which is amazing in of itself!), and that makes me think you still have to be extra careful! Please be safe.....our best wishes are traveling with you

Hi JustMeUK,

Is the bear spray illegal in the UK?

Here in the states it's illegal to use it on humans which I think is comical since concealed carrying a gun is so accepted here now. As an ex-gunner I do not own a gun, and don't wish too! I've seen quite enough harm to last me a lifetime.

The bear spray will incapacitate the attacker but does not cause permanent harm. If someone is attacking me, be it bear or human, I'll deal with the legal issues later. It's not illegal to carry it here just use it on people.

Can you have it sent to you legally?

[Drea]

Forgetting about all the trans stuff at the moment.

There are so many people on the internet who play at roles, create identities to live vicariously thru or to cause trouble or whatever that people can easily become skeptical about someone's claimed identity. I've seen guys get skeptical when they are shown up by a woman particularly when the venue is one where women are relatively uncommon. Some guys just look down on that much and rather presume that it is some guy playing some trick. Pictures and profiles mean nothing cause they can be fiction just as easily as anything else.

I am sure that is why the original question.

Not saying it is right, it happens, has happened to me a number of times, but like you I had people who would vouch for me or I just talk to them in person. That is....if it was even worth messing with. Sometimes it was just my own satisfaction.

Awareness about trans is also very high so it isn't surprising it escalated into that.

I've often commented that in the world of passing there are many levels of this. At the toughest level is the day to day interaction where even if one looks and sounds totally passable, the way one interacts socially can be the thing that outs one.

I tend to feel it is a losing battle to get into an online argument that one is really female instead of male. The argument in itself and how it progresses may just scream male attitude back at the other despite what words are used to convince.

Just report it if it is a venue where it can be and is worthwhile and move on is the way I look at it.

Anyways you did the right thing to document what he was saying. If the venue is work sponsored they may be able to take some significant action. If it is outside work they will be limited in what he said outside work, but one can argue harassing another employee originates from the workplace so is a workplace issue anyway.

Let us know how it turns out.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Just received an email today letting me know the two emails I sent to my company have been forwarded to the head of HR, and they will be speaking to the other party about this.

I don't think I want the guy fired, but just informed that this type of conduct is completely unacceptable and offensive.

[Guest KerryUK]

Hi LesleyAnne,

I'm pretty sure Bear Spray is illegal here in the UK. The police can carry pepper spray (not sure if it's the same thing) and use it on violent people who are a threat to them but again, I think it's an offence here for Jo Public to carry it (let alone use it).

Any woman carries perfume or deodorant in her bag - this can still be quite effective.

Kerry

[JJ]

Decades ago when I was being stalked by an anonymous stalker who would make short calls to tell me where I had been and describe my clothes as well as making threats (Long story. A supervisor at a company I worked for had used my name & id copied from work to have her boyfriends baby and it was his wife's brother who though it was actually me. The police eventually caught him. My supervisor got charged with fraud and lost her job as well) the officers told me off the record to carry a can of oven cleaner in my purse. It's lye based and will cause permanent disfigurement and often blindness which will get get you sued. But it WILL stop an attacker cold if sprayed in the face.

Far safer than a gun-I am a crack shot but the police felt as a woman at the time I was far more likely to get killed with my own gun than stop anyone even though I was trained to use it. They had seen it too often. Not wanting to get into that whole issue -just repeating what officers on the streets in Denver said at the time. Something reiterated by an officer friend of mine a decade later in Lubbock Texas as well. As a children's protective services worker there I had to go alone sometimes into neighborhoods the police would only enter in teams and knowing I had it helped me not to walk or act like prey. .

If you ever have to use it you just say you were taking it home to clean the oven. I periodically got a new can and used the old one for just that so it wasn't a lie. That was it's ultimate purpose after all.

Johnny

[Guest LesleyAnne]

Another good one to use is wasp spray.....nice long spray, and very effective

[tracy_j]

To be honest I would be wary of using insecticide or other dangerous chemicals.

I can see the reasoning but a mistake could result in unseen consequences. Perfume or deordorant sounds better, or even one of these devices which has piercing sound. Don't forget though that if the initial shock fails the reprocussions may be fatal! If you have something you also need the confidence to use it. I also remember that my father never liked my air pistol in the house as he always worried about burglers using it on him! Seldom happens but not unknown.

Bear in mind though that things are tempered a bit as mostly things tend to be quieter here than some places so being careful is usually enough.

Tracy

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

Well, this week has been pretty uneventful, which I guess is a blessing. I don't think the guy has been talked to about this, then again I haven't heard anything about it. I figured if he did, I'm sure he would have told some people and I would have received some kind of verbal backlash about it, but so far nothing. Haven't seen anything come across my email either, just in case my company chose to keep me informed that way.

I was thinking in the shower today (it's where I do most of my serious thinking) if it were to come down to me, what kind of resolution would I want from this. Had this been asked of me last week I would have said "fire him" but now that the emotions have died down, I started to think about it and if it were to come down to what a satisfactory resolution would be for me, I wouldn't want him to lose his job but I would want him to be educated. I'd want him to know that his behavior, especially in this day and age, is unacceptable. He claims to have gay friends but never said if he has transgender friends. If he did, then I was assume he already knows the power these derogatory slurs have and therefore his behavior was intentional. If that was the case, then I'd want something a little more strict to happen, but I don't know if that's true so I cannot assume and would just opt for the education option and let him know what he said towards me is unacceptable in this day and age. This way if it were to happen again, then we could infer his actions were deliberate since he was already educated. I'd also ask that he simply stay away from me online. I tried this option the very first time and he rejected my olive branch but now he's blocked so that's going to happen anyway. I'd also request that (two particular people) not have any contact with me as well. These two people would be the main 2 people who he'd go to about this and I feel they would be the most likely to harass me since he could not, so if it's all possible, I'd not want any contact with those two people as well.

...and that's all I could think of.

Now granted if it starts up again, then naturally I'm going to seek something more severe. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens in the following weeks. I'm hoping that just by bringing this to their (the company's) attention that this issue will be handled and nothing else will happen ever again but I have my doubts...