Some Thing That May Be A Little...

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Well now that we have and African American President in the U.S. I have a different attitude about Black People I used to judge Black people on how far they climbed up the ladder of success in this prejudiced society...and wherever the Black people were I always thought "Give them credit for achieving any thing in a country that has had slaves and until 1964 weer legally discriminated against and now so and so is head of a Fortune 500 company or my buddy finished college or that guy/gal is surviving and I'm so glad for him/her.

But now we have a President of the U.S. and he is Black and Holy Cow there is the pinnacle of success in America and what is left...African Americans are at the highest point and I'm just a retired salesman God Bless the United States Of America for doing something right......And God bless you Bronx for being what you became through a lot of hardships and adversity...Hope I got this thread right.......Mia

Interestingly enough, there is something going on in the scientific literature on prejudice that they are calling "the Obama Effect". In past studies looking at "implicit prejudice" (which is measured by a test like this: Implicit Association Test) Caucasians....even those who don't report having prejudiced attitudes, will sometimes show evidence of "implicit prejudice".

...until now.

Since Barack Obama has become a prominent and visible public figure, researchers have been finding less of an implicit prejudice effect. I don't know why this is, but researchers are scrambling to figure it out because it is awesome.

Mia, you taked about President Obama, and it reminded me of this. I just wanted to share.

[Guest bronx]

The history of race in America is not told completely. I have been reading up on race relations in this country from the time I was in Highschool.

Like I mentioned b4 I have been fortunate to have met and become friends with people of all backgrounds and because of this I tend to think outside the box. I can understand why certain people feel the way that they do. I can even understand slavery and how it has affected this country. I can understand the new imagrants moving here looking for better opertunities. In NY there are alot of people coming from west affrica and ther seems to be tension between them and the African - Americans that were born here. There is also tension between the poeple coming from the islands as well. the funny thing is it's that in this country no-matter where you come from some people will always see you as being black. Where as when I meet people from spanish speacking countries it's a little diffrent. And they them selves are divided amongst each other. WOW!!!

[Guest Crossroads]

I disagree with a lot of the race issues.

The issue isn't that people are afraid of blacks or transgendered people. Society is afraid of people who are different.

I was subject to lots of abuse growing up because of my religion and heritage. I looked white, but I'm pure-bred Hebrew. People didn't like that, they were "scared" of that, and I got physical violence because of it.

Angie, who is black, got the same abuse for completely different reasons. She grew up in the ghetto, but talked properly. She was DIFFERENT!

I think it's easier for people to say that color is a problem for them, and be racist, when in actuality they just don't understand anything different from them. But I do know that there are people of EVERY color being badly discriminated against because of being transgender. Of course, depending on where you are, the factors are always different, but white and black and every other color feel the horror of society's "fear".

I know where I live, there is a pretty bad discrimination against white people by some blacks. They think it's okay because so many white people are racist. They think that gives them the right to be racist back. We all know this is happening, and I hope everyone here can agree that it's wrong. Whenever someone meets Angie, they are taken aback. They are surprised that I'm with a black person, more surprised than that I'm with a woman in general. Although it's become much more accepted, I got a lot of nasty looks and treatment for it.

I know it is naive of me, but I always tell people who bring it up to stop thinking about race as race. Start thinking of it as a different in melanin content. Some people have one or two freckles, some people are covered. That is controlled by melanin, not your quality as a human being.

I'm getting off topic, I suppose, but I genuinely feel that race is linked too closely with other issues. Sure, in some places, a black transgendered man may be considered "worse" than a white one, but my opinion from what I've seen is that sometimes those of us in the situation make it worse. Worrying about it sometimes makes you think things that aren't there. I can think of some customers who've accused me of being racist when I helped a white person before them (because the white person was in front of them in line). They are afraid it's the case, and I'm sure they've had a bad experience, but I don't ever assume the worst first. I'd like to think that someone helped someone else ahead of me because they didn't see me, or because I was having an attitude or something. The last thing I ever think is my race. Again, maybe that's naive of me. Unless someone comes out and says "Well, if you were just trans, it'd be okay, but BLACK trans? Uh uh!" I don't think there's really a way for us to get into the minds of the people that cause us so much heartache.

I hope I didn't say too much, but this is a sore topic for me that hits pretty close to home......

[Guest mia 1]

Right you are crossroads the world is full of prejudice and hate and speaking as another Jewish person America is a haven for the Jews> Just read about hatred in Europe for the Jewish people and see how close they have come to wiping out the Jews ans would to this day if there were any Jews left....But here in the U.S. Jews have never experienced genocide..mistreated and discriminated by some but never persecuted to the death...with a couple of exceptions like in your home state of Georgia..where there was a lynching by a mob of racists who hung a Jewish Druggist for having an affair with a White Christian WOmen..but all in all for the Jews this is the land of Milk And Honey....Do I hear a big Amen there People....

[Guest bronx]

Unfortunatly race is a huge issue in this country, and I know that a lot of people don't feel easy talking about it and that it can hit you some kinda way. I don't think we can solve the problem in the next generation but I think that it is important to open dialoge on the subject. There is so much that others don't know about other peoples culture and I think talking about our experiences will help us to realize that yeah we are all just human beings living on this earth, trying to do and be the best that we can.

Crossroads I feel you man. I dated a Jewish girl a while back and caught alot of flak for that. Then again I've pretty much always dated outside my race. Some people can be cruel and judgemental. But I've never let that stop me from being friends with someone. I did however marry an African - American girl and she herself gets S*** from the black community. She doesn't "talk" black as they say and she has a few degrees. She is very educated and well spoken. She grew up in the hood though. The funny thing is that when we got together some of my friends didn't get it. I was raised middle class, but I chose not to go to college, I am how ever very well read and can communicate with anyone.

So not only is race an issue that we don't talk about and status after we transition but also what a persons economic status can be brought into the picture as well.

[Sally]

Unfortunatly race is a huge issue in this country, and I know that a lot of people don't feel easy talking about it and that it can hit you some kinda way. I don't think we can solve the problem in the next generation but I think that it is important to open dialoge on the subject. There is so much that others don't know about other peoples culture and I think talking about our experiences will help us to realize that yeah we are all just human beings living on this earth, trying to do and be the best that we can.

So not only is race an issue that we don't talk about and status after we transition but also what a persons economic status can be brought into the picture as well.

I am one of those that will actually speak about race, I have friends from several.

In the group that go out for dinner after jazz band we have one Hispanic man a little older than myself, his wife and his older brother, Another Hispanic man a little older than me and his African American wife, The only one younger than me is of Polish decent and Jewish, I'm Irish, Christian and to my knowledge the only trans in our little group.

Through work at varies places I have come into contact with a number of nationalities and made some good friends who sadly moved back to Nigeria after they got their engineering degrees.

I have Asian friends form several different countries and I just can't keep track of them all, because it really doesn't matter to me.

I use a system that I would like to see the world adopt - The only criteria for becoming my friend is that you have to be nice!

We claim to have no 'class system' here in the US, and as far as birthrights, I guess we don't unless you inherit a lot of money, because that is the class distinction here.

Love ya, rich, poor, whatever race and religion,

Sally

[Guest Crossroads]

I just think that some people focus so much on race that they don't think about the tons of other issues as well.

It's like me being attacked and saying it was because I was Jewish, when it could have been many things: Jewish. "lesbian", transgender, cross dresser, I made some snide remark, I did something to someone they know, or just that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think it's important to teach my children the way I feel everyone should grow up. I didn't even know that races existed until high school, really. I understood what had happened to many people, but I also knew that other colors of people have been enslaved all over the world. I didn't realize (again, naive) that color had anything to do with it. Of course, then I educated myself. I feel that if we didn't teach children that they were a "race", then they'd feel no difference. It's good to be proud of what you are, but there's a line crossed when you think it makes you completely different from other humans.

I'm of the mindset that even though I'm transgendered, even though I'm going to have to go through things that most people don't, that we're all human and therefore the same. Even though I came from an upper class Jewish family and Angie from a lower class black family, I never once felt that we were any different.

But I guess I also need to understand that many people DON'T feel that way and don't even want to TRY to think that way....

[Guest bronx]

Now here's somthing that I never really thought about untill now. My mother who was a school teacher for over 35yrs, very well educated always rasied me not to look at anyones race and or religion. As a child there were always diffrent people around. There were white, jewish, catholic, asian, etc.. It was never anything i thought about until I went to highschool. the school i went to was very competitive on the academic level and the kids would seperate themselves into groups, especialy in the lunch room. I had know Idea what it was all about.

My mom who was born in the south during the 1920's never once spoke bad about anyone, even though I knew she had a hard life growing up. I would ask her about race all she would say was that we were all God's children and we need to love and recpect one another. I carry that with me always without even thinking about it, but it did make me want to learn more about everybody's culture, weather it be though food or custumes.

Now if the rest of the world could follow through.

[Sally]

I had a wonderful post explaining everything from how to solve race relations to ending the depression and a lot of other great stuff, when a pop up came on my computer screen telling me to check for better Internet pricing and I could not type in the topic - closing the pop up cleared my post - so now I have yet another group to ad to my list of 'the people who are causing all of the trouble'.

In short the problems are that most people live on an emotional level driven by two of the strongest emotions - fear and greed.

The only stronger emotion is Love, but most people consider compassion to be a sign of weakness so combating this ignorance is very hard.

As to why the fear of black men - during slavery - some of the slaves did manage to kill their masters in order to escape and be free (Who could really blame them), so it begins.

It was reinforced during the race riots of the civil rights movement and images of black men with knives and guns were a regular item on the evening news - people who had never even met or talked to a black person were forming their opinions of these militant, angry and dangerous men.

I was in a school that was integrated prior to the passing of any laws about it because of the large military base near it - while the fires were still smoldering from the riots in Watts - look that up if you are younger - I was pledging a fraternity along with six other young men, two of them black (I liked Franz and Ray a lot better than two of the white guys).

I was raised to accept everyone and I suppose that is why my mother's refusal to accept me as trans is so disturbing.

Well, as far as racism goes, try to find the history of the Irish in the US and you'll learn a valuable lesson - while there is no guarantee that everyone will have a turn at the top - everyone has had a time at the bottom!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Elizabeth K]

As a newly minted woman, living in the deep south, I might have a couple of observations here.

As a male

Afraid of a Black man? I think it is more 'suspicious' of a man who is not like me in some ways. If I am in an area I feel comfortable (95% of a southern town) I am pretty confident around everyone. I am male and I have my size and my limited capabilities toward self-defense if needed. I have taken prcautions to prevent being a victim of crime - any nationality has criminals. In a poorer neighborhood things can change. There are so many unemployed. I have no experience with the love and brotherhood a poor neighborhod can have (I learned this later) so I don't understand that 'I' am the intruder sometimes - am I lost? Am I a bill collector? Am I looking for someone as an officer or a social worker? I stand out. This is a plapable sensation of tension in the air. I am uncertain if a Black man approaches me , what he expects. I rely on courtousy - it works out. I was afraid - and ashamed to have prejudged - I promise myself to do better.

As a female

Afraid of a Black man? I am more afraid of ALL men. I am certainly suspicious of those who are not even close to me in race and gender (limited as I am). But it's mostly a gender thing. Any woman who is a lone is a potential victim - I am TERRIFIED if I accidently get into a position where I don't feel safe. STUPID stupid stupid! What am I doing here? I am uncertain if a Black man approaches me , what he expects. I rely on courtousy - it works out. I was afraid - and ashamed to have prejudged - I promise myself to do better - I promise to stay away from danger, I am so fragile in my gender, and must depend on bluster, not strength - that scares the hell out of me!

I will end this by saying we have poverty in the South - as everywhere, but in the South it has been here so long a time. People can be as beautiful as you can imagine and not have a cent. People can also have a million dollars and be as unpleasant as the devil.

We try our best. Unfortunately for the Black man or woman, they usually start the race a few hunded feet farther back, not always mind you, but more often than is fair.

Just some thoughts.

lizzy