Baltimore Gay Bar Throws Transman Out Of Bathroom

[Guest Seth]

http://bashbacknews.wordpress.com/2009/02/...ut-of-bathroom/

[Guest Keane]

That's bull! It's not fair that our bottom surgery sucks!

[Guest DanM]

If I want to use the mens room I will use the mens room surgery or no surgery. How do they expect someone to transition properly if they throw them out. Don't they get the meaning of living as a man.

mens clothes, shoes, cologne and yes even the bathroom.

[Guest Irielle]

The discrimination just never seems to end....... *sigh*

[Guest Conrí]

Wow, I didn't hear about that at all...though I don't really read much of the news or anything

Something like that is so much.. ...I can't believe I actually walk past that place most days. I'm androgynous... and I've never had any problem using the guys bathroom, and if you think about it, what is wrong with someone using whatever bathroom they see fit if they are just gonna go in there to actually use the bathroom...

[Guest My_Genesis]

This is why we need a better bottom surgery! I've wanted to pee like a guy since I was like 2 years old! lol...another one of those "it's not important unless you don't have it" type things...if anyone knows the saying I'm referring to

[Guest Elizabeth K]

My therapist warned me about an incident in a Mall in Baton Rouge. A transwoman was harrased an banned from coming to the Mall for one year by Mall security (three female rent-a-cops). She had been shopping all day and had parcels of items purchased at the Mall with her.

She was fully presenting female and had to use the restroom. It was too dangerous to use the Men's Room. She waited until there was no traffic and used the Women's facilties, and supposedly she went in, did her business and left. She was detained and forced to go to the Cortana offices, where she was told she could be arrested for being in disguise and impersonating a woman.

This did not make the news.

Lizzy

[Guest leo]

omg

what disgusting behaviour

they expect us to go RTL but dont help us against things like this

[Guest kirsty]

I think this is something that needs addressing globally. This is a big issue for us all. I am totally against this sort of discrimination.

[Guest Little Sara]

My therapist warned me about an incident in a Mall in Baton Rouge. A transwoman was harrased an banned from coming to the Mall for one year by Mall security (three female rent-a-cops). She had been shopping all day and had parcels of items purchased at the Mall with her.

She was fully presenting female and had to use the restroom. It was too dangerous to use the Men's Room. She waited until there was no traffic and used the Women's facilties, and supposedly she went in, did her business and left. She was detained and forced to go to the Cortana offices, where she was told she could be arrested for being in disguise and impersonating a woman.

This did not make the news.

Lizzy

Huh, is being "in disguise" a crime? Is impersonating a woman, none in particular, just a generic woman a crime?

Impersonating someone else and trying to pass for say, Angelina Jolie, is a crime. That's even identity theft. But I think they made up the rest, or their local laws are archaic.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

The problem with stuff like this is that it probably doesn't make the news all that often, but I imagine it happens pretty often. The bottom line is that lots of people of both genders are uncomfortable with TG people. I mean, since we don't check the genitals of everyone who enters the bathroom, I think the gender you are presenting as should be the way to determine what bathroom you should use. End of story. You can't be like "Oh...ma'am... I'm sorry. You've had a hysterectomy. You can't come in here." Imagine someone telling my poor Granny that!

This really gets me angry.

If a guy lost his penis in an accident or something (there ARE people that this has happened to), what then? What are we going to do? Are we going to check chromosomes at the door?

Nope, that won't work either. There are people with chromosomal abnormalities that don't even know. There are men, with all of the male equipment, that will go to the doctor and find out that they have two X chromosomes.

So, it's a silly question for people to want to argue about. Social gender is the only efficient, fair way to determine what bathroom you use. I don't understand why this is such an issue for people. I used the women's bathroom at school the other day because there were workers in the men's room and I was too lazy to go to another floor. Trust me. Women do not want me in there.

[Guest]

I've had emails from trans people who were refused access to both bathrooms. When denied entry to the bathroom of choice some compromised and asked management to watch the door and let them use the other one because they were bursting and needed to go. They were refused. In one case cops arrested a transwoman for disturbing the peace and wouldn't let her go to either bathroom before getting in the car. During the ride to the station she soiled herself and had to wait hours through the booking process to clean herself up.

Those in transition should always carry a letter from the doctor or therapist stating they are in transition and what that means. It should state what bathroom will be used out of necessity. Many times this helps especially legally. Mtf's going into a men's room will almost certainly be beat up.

Denying anyone bathroom rights is cruel and unusal punishment. We just want to go, do our business like everyone else and leave. There are no credible reports of a trans person sexually harrassing or attacking other people in the bathrooms unless they are attacked first. It's always the other way around. We are the ones harrassed.

Laura

[Guest Little Sara]

If a guy lost his penis in an accident or something (there ARE people that this has happened to), what then? What are we going to do? Are we going to check chromosomes at the door?

Actually, a sizeable part of TG fiction deals with this, and subsequent reconstruction as female (which isn't all that likely imo) as a "transition as a kid" deal. Usually happens after an accident that destroyed or made the tissue otherwise unusable.

In one story, the child in question was recommended by the surgeon to be reconstructed as female, but per the mother and a religious argument, the child's genitals were reconstructed as male. The child was really hoping to do something about it before the accident happened, so you can sort of guess what happened after.

Imo, in real life, doctors would balk at the notion of reconstructing a male child who is more than 2-3 and who isn't ambiguous in any way as female. They'd rather reconstruct a half-assed penis with shreds of what was left than attempt to construct a neo-vagina, whatever the wish of the patient. You'd be told to wait until 18 (which is stupid).

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I have my letter from my therapist. I carry it in my purse, I carry my purse with me ALWAYS even if I have to leave it locked in the car.

I also avoid public restrooms - but sometimes there is no choice!

Its a major problem with us. All we want to do (most likely) is pee! I rarely go into a bathroom and beg those I see in there to change their sex!

Lizzy

[Guest Martin]

Stories like this make me feel helpless and angry. I feel like there's nothing I can do, yet these injustices keep happening.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I've had emails from trans people who were refused access to both bathrooms. When denied entry to the bathroom of choice some compromised and asked management to watch the door and let them use the other one because they were bursting and needed to go. They were refused. In one case cops arrested a transwoman for disturbing the peace and wouldn't let her go to either bathroom before getting in the car. During the ride to the station she soiled herself and had to wait hours through the booking process to clean herself up.

Those in transition should always carry a letter from the doctor or therapist stating they are in transition and what that means. It should state what bathroom will be used out of necessity. Many times this helps especially legally. Mtf's going into a men's room will almost certainly be beat up.

Denying anyone bathroom rights is cruel and unusal punishment. We just want to go, do our business like everyone else and leave. There are no credible reports of a trans person sexually harrassing or attacking other people in the bathrooms unless they are attacked first. It's always the other way around. We are the ones harrassed.

Laura

Amen, Laura. In my opinion, it seems like at least some of this would be avoided if bathrooms were just gender neutral. A lot of schools have found that many bad behaviors diminish when dorms are made co-ed. They don't do co-ed rooms usually, but co-ed halls. Anyway, the result is usually less bickering from the girls and less ridiculous property destruction and posturing from the boys. I'm wondering if just switching over to gender neutral bathrooms would have a similar effect. If there are stalls, it isn't like everyone is watching everyone. Maybe men wouldn't destroy the restroom so much if they knew they were sharing the space.

I don't know. One of my cisgender female friends says that she doesn't want men in any bathroom she is using because they are dangerous. My argument in response was that there was nothing stopping the kinds of abuses she was talking about in gender neutral "family" and handicapped restrooms.

At my school we are fortunate enough to have some gender neutral bathrooms on campus, so I get to use those. Still, given that I am obviously not handicapped, I still feel anxious when I have to go to the bathroom. The result is, like so many other transmen and women, a lot of times I just end up holding it.

Here's a website that might be helpful to those of you in the US:

Safe2pee

If we all pitch in and add bathrooms to the database, it benefits everyone! It's not a perfect solution, but it helps.

Another question, I wonder what the legality of my situation is. I've changed my sex designation on my driver's license to male. However, I haven't had any bottom surgery and I haven't managed to change a lot of my other documentation. I wonder what would happen if I got thrown out of a bathroom. I don't carry a status letter because I figure my driver's license covers me in most situations.

I swear, this is all very silly. We just want to go to the bathroom!!

[Guest Chrissie]

Amen, Laura. In my opinion, it seems like at least some of this would be avoided if bathrooms were just gender neutral. A lot of schools have found that many bad behaviors diminish when dorms are made co-ed. They don't do co-ed rooms usually, but co-ed halls. Anyway, the result is usually less bickering from the girls and less ridiculous property destruction and posturing from the boys. I'm wondering if just switching over to gender neutral bathrooms would have a similar effect. If there are stalls, it isn't like everyone is watching everyone. Maybe men wouldn't destroy the restroom so much if they knew they were sharing the space.

I don't know. One of my cisgender female friends says that she doesn't want men in any bathroom she is using because they are dangerous. My argument in response was that there was nothing stopping the kinds of abuses she was talking about in gender neutral "family" and handicapped restrooms.

At my school we are fortunate enough to have some gender neutral bathrooms on campus, so I get to use those. Still, given that I am obviously not handicapped, I still feel anxious when I have to go to the bathroom. The result is, like so many other transmen and women, a lot of times I just end up holding it.

Here's a website that might be helpful to those of you in the US:

Safe2pee

If we all pitch in and add bathrooms to the database, it benefits everyone! It's not a perfect solution, but it helps.

Another question, I wonder what the legality of my situation is. I've changed my sex designation on my driver's license to male. However, I haven't had any bottom surgery and I haven't managed to change a lot of my other documentation. I wonder what would happen if I got thrown out of a bathroom. I don't carry a status letter because I figure my driver's license covers me in most situations.

I swear, this is all very silly. We just want to go to the bathroom!!

Wonders what we are supposed to do? Hold it until we are 70 and explode?

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Wonders what we are supposed to do? Hold it until we are 70 and explode?

?

Did I say something wrong? You are quoting me and yelling at the same time?

Yes, I hold it for a good, long while sometimes because I'm afraid. The men's bathroom can be pretty scary sometimes, and I'm not a big guy. I was out shooting pool with some friends a while back, when I'd only been on T for a month or so. It was very quickly apparent that the men in the bar were a rough crowd and that I'd stand out A LOT if I tried to duck into the women's room. The result? I held it until I was about to pop. Then I made up an excuse why I needed to go home for a second (my house was 5 minutes away) and went to the bathroom at home.

What needs to happen is for cisgender people to lighten up about the stupid bathrooms. Until the rest of the world can join us in the land of the rational, I think the Safe2pee website is a good resource. We just need more people to contribute.

[Guest Chrissie]

?

Did I say something wrong? You are quoting me and yelling at the same time?

Yes, I hold it for a good, long while sometimes because I'm afraid. The men's bathroom can be pretty scary sometimes, and I'm not a big guy. I was out shooting pool with some friends a while back, when I'd only been on T for a month or so. It was very quickly apparent that the men in the bar were a rough crowd and that I'd stand out A LOT if I tried to duck into the women's room. The result? I held it until I was about to pop. Then I made up an excuse why I needed to go home for a second (my house was 5 minutes away) and went to the bathroom at home.

What needs to happen is for cisgender people to lighten up about the stupid bathrooms. Until the rest of the world can join us in the land of the rational, I think the Safe2pee website is a good resource. We just need more people to contribute.

Nah you are fine ... Its that what you say spark the weirdest reactions in me. I wonder if we're related I was actually yelling at society:P

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Nah you are fine ... Its that what you say spark the weirdest reactions in me. I wonder if we're related I was actually yelling at society:P

LOL!

I was afraid of your big, yellow letters! We are related. We're all brothers and sisters around here!

I like to yell at society too!!

[Guest Little Sara]

Those in transition should always carry a letter from the doctor or therapist stating they are in transition and what that means. It should state what bathroom will be used out of necessity.

Meh, I've never heard, anywhere in Canada, of a need for such a letter. People and police here are less anal about it or something.

If I had a problem with say, an employer or a school or w/e giving me grief about using the women's room and forcing me to use the men's, I'd go to work/school in diapers as a protest.

[Guest kirsty]

Blimey! That yellow text on a 26inch monitor really makes the eyes hurt

I will need my sunglasses when If i come back to this thread.

Can I yell too?

[Guest Chrissie]

Blimey! That yellow text on a 26inch monitor really makes the eyes hurt

I will need my sunglasses when If i come back to this thread.

Can I yell too?

The yellow letters were because this was a bathroom Issue ... Brown just wouldnt have worked ...

Society is stupid we may need to beat it around a bit .... Who has the Sledgehammers and who has the whips?

[Guest April63]

How do you get caught using the bathroom? If you pass, how do people know? People don't check your genitals. Is it because we don't pass well enough?

April

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

The yellow letters were because this was a bathroom Issue ... Brown just wouldnt have worked ...

Society is stupid we may need to beat it around a bit .... Who has the Sledgehammers and who has the whips?

I've been in a brown situation too... when there was no safe bathroom in sight. Yellow is more frequent, but brown isn't out of the question.

April, when people have bathroom problems it usually is because we aren't passing consistently enough. In my case, I still use only gender neutral bathrooms at school. On a college campus, where there are no kids, I stick out like a sore thumb. In public, I worry less because I blend as a 14 to 16 year old boy. When people of all ages are around, I generally feel safer.

In Seth's post, I think people knew who the transguys were because there was a drag show going on. I'm thinking it was one of the performers who got thrown out, so it would have been obvious who he was. I might be reading it wrong though.

Basically, we are in the most danger if we aren't passing consistently yet or if we are in a setting where people know who is trans.

I think MTF's have it worse with bathroom situations.

1. Women scrutinize everyone in the bathroom. Men generally don't.

2. Women are afraid of everyone...so again, they scrutinize whomever is in the bathroom.

3. MTF's are more likely to be tall for a woman. In my case, I'm 5'6". That's short for a guy, but it doesn't stand out. I think there are more guys who are 5'6" than women who are 6 feet and up. It's just a question of who stands out more.

I hate bathrooms.