Almost 4 Years Post-Op - Thoughts

[Alejandra]

6 hours ago, MarcieMarie12 said:

My expectation is that at some point the newness of it wears off, and life settles into a new normal--whatever that is for each person though is different. 

Thank for responding to my question, although I must say that it really seems to diminish or, IMHO, dismiss or make light of what I see as a truly profound change in how one is able to interact and/or relate to the world around you.

Life does indeed go on, but unless it is significantly different, (except perhaps for how one pees), then as the OP has noted, what is the point?

In my case the biggest change, (after the pain of recovery had finally subsided of course),  was that I was no longer having to deal with the trauma of dealing with a body that was just not right. I could now get on with my life as the simple, well educated and attractive young woman that I was. For me, that was the point; to make the best of my time on this earth and to do so authentically. Fortunately for me, that has indeed been the case.

I just think that transition involves such a huge and irrevocable change in one's life, and in many cases the lives of loved ones, that it should only be undertaken when every other possible option has been thoroughly explored and exhausted.

[MarcieMarie12]

Let me clarify some, just because the newness wears off, doesn't mean that the changes are not significant. I've been out part time since December and even at work since May and love it (by comparison to some others my transition has been relatively easy). But since May and the previous whirlwind of firsts, things have gotten into a new "normal". It doesn't mean transition was nothing, just that my reason was to get myself to be where I could be my authentic self as well (as I said I am a girly girl), and address the dysphoria that plagued me.  

No I am not post op--yet. GCS as far as I am concerned is only for me and my sense of personal peace and well being. Even were I am at now the stupid thing causes dysphoria. No one but my boyfriend/girlfriend will notice, nor is it anybody else's business. After GCS--guess what, I still have a career to attend to, bills to pay, family issues, and life in general to deal with. That stuff doesn't go away with my transition, it just made some things more complicated.

How do I feel about my transition so far? For me, it is best decision I ever made.

 

[Alejandra]

I am glad that things are working out for you, Marcie.  I wish you all the best.

[Guest vtphoenix]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, Alejandra said:

Thoughts like this make me really uncomfortable.  I keep thinking...what were these folks thinking.  What were they expecting?  What did they expect to change besides the removal of an unwanted appendage?

I realize that these are very dangerous and terribly intimate questions, but I think they are important because shedding light on these very difficult issues might cause others to delve down into their own reasoning and expectations.

 

I think that those ideas make a lot of people in the trans community uncomfortable. Regret is a taboo topic in our community. It is used by those who oppose us to justify their opposition (since they can pretend they're really doing it for our benefit) and it is used within the trans community as a way to establish a hierarchy. An example of the latter would be a person feeling that they are more trans or more female because they don't experience regret. Further, I think discussions about regret are frightening to those who have yet to have GRS because no one wants to be the person who has GRS and then regrets it.

Therefore, I don't think we always read such stories with a critical eye. Instead, our focus become "What warning signs can I find in this person's story that will prove that their experience is different than what my experience will be?" And I think this is terribly wrong on many levels. It is not intellectually honest (we are reading other people's stories for our own benefit, research, encouragement, living vicariously, etc.). It is not humble ("oh that happened to them for x, y, z reasons, it could never happen to me"). And it is invalidating (that a person has such and such an experience means that they are not "really" trans, for example).

That being said, regret is not a binary thing. It is not like we either regret our surgeries or don't. Speaking from my own experience, I would say that I am happy I had surgery like 10% of the time, unhappy like 5% of the time, and that it just feels normal/doesn't matter 85% of the time. Even the unhappiness I experience sometimes is rooted in physical and social outcomes. I feel like my actual surgical result does not look as good as I had expected. I think I was given a lot of reason to expect more: from the trans community, from the medical team, from the literature, from the media, etc. I also have not appreciated how I've been treated by some people: doctors, teachers, my peers, job interviewers, etc.

Your response, the way it is worded, comes across kind of offensive in several respects. Like you say "What were these folks thinking?" and by framing this in such a way you are suggesting that there is something categorically different from people like me, who have moments that can best be described as dissatisfaction or disappointment (regret is too strong), and people like you, who maybe are 100% happy/satisfied with your decision (I think that is unlikely with any decision that carries such strong consequences). Unfortunately, it's that kind of attitude that prevents the trans community from sharing stories about disappointment/regret because there is an implication that we are somehow less female or less trans or that we did not put as much effort into researching or thinking about our decisions. In other words, what makes you think that I or anyone else who is even a little bit dissatisfied must have had unrealistic expectations?

Yes I knew that GRS meant the "removal of an unwanted appendage" but I didn't know that over time I would miss more and more the sex life I used to have with my wife. I didn't know that my vagina would look so much different from a cis-woman's vagina. I didn't know I would have so much difficulty finding a doctor who would see me even for minor issues.

There's a lot that is impossible to know from the outset but I would encourage anyone who reads "regret" in a person's posts/stories to give them the benefit of the doubt that they made their decision in the best possible way that they could, that they tried to be as informed as they could, that they tried to maintain realistic expectations, and that they had both eyes open.

I hate the word "elitist" because it gets thrown around so much that it frankly has lost a lot of its true meaning, but I think it is an apt word to use if someone has the attitude of "nothing bad can happen to me because I am cut from a different cloth". I have tried to be honest with myself and with every professional who helped me with the transition process. I don't think that any negative feelings I or others might have can necessarily be blamed on a failure of introspection or research.

Basically, I'm not sharing my thoughts so that others can poke holes in my trans-ness. I want others to approach transition and GRS with caution and to not just hear the voice of the cheerleaders saying how awesome transition is. I'm not looking for people to try to pick apart things I say looking for signs that they will have a different/better experience than what I've had (as you implied by the comment about causing others to delve deeper about their own expectations).

I'll reiterate: I don't think that my experience is qualitatively different than any other trans person's. I don't think I made a mistake. I am a little disappointed but not terribly dissatisfied with my outcome. I made myself vulnerable by being open and honest here. If someone's take-away is that they have (or will have) a better experience because I said x, y, or z and that indicates that I must've had too high of expectations, then all I can say is people will believe what they want to believe. Just know that "high expectations" is entirely subjective. Before I transitioned, I was just trying to make it through the day. I think people should be able to expect more out of life than this, but I'm sure the people who don't can be more easily pleased. I don't think that makes the people who hope for more wrong.

[Jani]

Ashley I said months ago this was a good discussion and I still feel that way.  I appreciate your candor.  I think your thought that"...that it just feels normal/doesn't matter 85% of the time" is important to me in that this is what I would strive for, normalcy.  My new normal is settling in as my journey goes on.  There are so many things I no longer think or worry about any more.  This is what I hope for.  

BTW you write and express your thoughts well.  I don't know what sort of book you're writing but I'm sure it will be good. 

Jani

[Alejandra]

1 hour ago, vtphoenix said:

I think I was given a lot of reason to expect more: from the trans community, from the medical team, from the literature, from the media, etc. I also have not appreciated how I've been treated by some people: doctors, teachers, my peers, job interviewers, etc.

Hi Ashley.  I feel terrible that my words, thoughts and feelings have been offensive to you.  Please accept my apologies if I in any way caused you to feel badly.  I really hope that you will believe me when I say to you that being offensive or uncaring was the farthest thing from my mind. And please do not paint me with a "holier than thou", (or 'trannier than thou"). That really just sounds like an over used dog whistle to me.

Personally I think there is a lot of wisdom in what you I have quoted above and to try and reduce my reaction to your OP as some kind of "put down" on my part just distracts from the point you are trying to make.

How hard is it to understand that I am agreeing with you and I am echoing your thoughts and feelings and trying to draw attention to them. That I feel very happy about my life and have zero regrets should not be seen as some " way to establish a hierarchy".  Maybe as you say this is something that occurs "within the trans community", but IMO it has nothing to do with the realities of our very different experiences post-op.

I think you are very brave in sharing your experience.  I think your truth has great value and needs to be out there.  On behalf of those that come after us, I thank you.

[Alejandra]

Just so that there is no more misunderstanding I want you and everyone here to know that I am 100% in agreement with your saying that, "I want others to approach transition and GRS with caution and to not just hear the voice of the cheerleaders saying how awesome transition is."  I share your feelings on this.

However to infer that I am trying, " to pick apart things I (you), say looking for signs that they will have a different/better experience than what I've had" because I urge "others to delve deeper into their own expectations".... that is a gross misinterpretation of my intended meaning.

Having said that, I think that you are seriously mistaken if you honestly belief that "that (your) experience is not qualitatively different than any other trans person's".

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Charlize
"not edited by posting member's request.

[MarcieMarie12]

One thing I was warned about by my GT and others I have met on this journey. Be honest with yourself and how you feel. GCS for me is the final step in this process--(Ok maybe my last electrolysis session a year or two down the road-just enough  white and red hairs on my face that I know it will take a while).

[Guest vtphoenix]

1 hour ago, Alejandra said:

Hi Ashley.  I feel terrible that my words, thoughts and feelings have been offensive to you.  Please accept my apologies if I in any way caused you to feel badly.  I really hope that you will believe me when I say to you that being offensive or uncaring was the farthest thing from my mind. And please do not paint me with a "holier than thou", (or 'trannier than thou"). That really just sounds like an over used dog whistle to me.

Personally I think there is a lot of wisdom in what you I have quoted above and to try and reduce my reaction to your OP as some kind of "put down" on my part just distracts from the point you are trying to make.

How hard is it to understand that I am agreeing with you and I am echoing your thoughts and feelings and trying to draw attention to them. That I feel very happy about my life and have zero regrets should not be seen as some " way to establish a hierarchy".  Maybe as you say this is something that occurs "within the trans community", but IMO it has nothing to do with the realities of our very different experiences post-op.

I think you are very brave in sharing your experience.  I think your truth has great value and needs to be out there.  On behalf of those that come after us, I thank you.

Hi, Alejandra, I've read some of your other posts and I can tell that you are a kind, intelligent, reasonable person. I know that you were not intentionally trying to cause offense. Nevertheless, when you say things like "What are these folks thinking?" it comes across as judgmental. No worries, we don't have to argue about it. I just wanted to make you aware of my perceptions. Likewise, I don't think you should follow an apology with "that really just sounds like an over used dog whistle" because on the one hand it seems like you're saying you're sorry and didn't mean anything by what you said but on the other it seems like you're suggesting my reaction was over the top.

I mean I'm not mad or anything and I honestly don't think you bear any ill intent. It's just that we have to be really intentional with our language especially around issues that might be really tough or sensitive for people. For example, I was going to respond to a post tonight but deleted my message because I realized that I just didn't know a good way to explain what I was saying without hurting someone's feelings. So I decided that my post would not be constructive and passed on adding my input. We can't post first and think after. This is nothing personal against you, I'm speaking in general. I've been guilty of doing this in the past myself.

I don't think your reaction to my post was a "put down" but I do think it was a somewhat knee-jerk response. All I was trying to say back was that as much as someone can think transition or surgery is right for them, there are a lot of unknowns, so we shouldn't assume that just because a person is less happy with the end result that they failed in their introspection or that the process failed. No one has to be to blame. I like to write. I know other people who like to write. We don't necessarily like writing to the same degree. In the same way, transition and surgery will meet some people's needs more than others.

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I just want to challenge you to slow down before making assumptions. For example, you say that we have very different post-op experiences and you think you are happier or have less regrets, but this is not necessarily true. I had surgery over 4 years ago and have rarely desired to post about it, so this part you are hearing about now is a very small window into my experiences. In every other respect, our experiences might be identical, there's no way to know. I don't like the word "regret" for political reasons but also for language reasons too; it is too strong a word for my very occasional disappointments. When I said above that I am only happy 10% of the time, what I meant is I am only really ecstatic 10% of the time, the other 85% of the time where it is just normal/whatever, there is some amount of happiness. The reason I point this out is I am feeling like you are perceiving more dissatisfaction with my situation than is really there.

What you were saying about not trying to establish a hierarchy - I trust you. I know you are well-meaning. Nevertheless this is a dynamic that exists in the trans community so when you say something like "What are these folks thinking?" it is against this backdrop. So I'd just ask you to please be more careful in the words you choose. Because: what was I thinking? I was thinking "Hey, if I transition/have surgery I'll be happier." In this way, I think my experience IS like every other person who transitions/has surgery. I've never heard of someone transitioning to be UN-happy. And I'm pretty sure that most people seek out as much information as they can before they make that leap. The information we find is not all the same though, the messages aren't all the same, and the conclusions we can reasonably draw from data aren't necessarily all the same.

I don't have anything against transition/surgery whatsoever. My main gripe is that we don't have good research. If we had better research, we would have a better idea what we could improve about transition and surgery to have better outcomes. For example, if the biggest reason people have regrets is surgical outcome, then we might be wasting time with mandated therapy and need to focus our efforts on pushing for higher quality medical care. Very few doctors around here will work with trans patients and that is a real problem. Of course some dissatisfaction stems from things like this. My point is that unhappiness can stem from structural issues in society rather than internal characteristics of the person or whether transition/surgery is a good "fit" for that person.

[Carolyn Marie]

I think everyone's point has been made quite clear.  Why doesn't everyone move on and not rehash this any further?  Agreed?

Carolyn Marie

[Alejandra]

OK.  I understand what you are saying and I will agree that when I say things they tend to come straight from the heart.  More often than not, my tired old brain is just not all motivated or awake enough to properly parse said thoughts in such a way as to make it palatable to everyone's idea of what is politically correct or appropriate for "safe spaces".  

1 hour ago, vtphoenix said:

 My point is that unhappiness can stem from structural issues in society rather than internal characteristics of the person or whether transition/surgery is a good "fit" for that person.

I cannot disagree with you that society is not particularly sympathetic to the plight of trans people.  Despite much outward, seemingly rather contrived acceptance, it is my feeling that most people just don't get it. Nevertheless, I still think that it is really important to determine whether transition/surgery is a good "fit" for any particular individual. I am sure that you are aware that the majority of trans people find surgery to be a rather unneeded or unwanted expense.

[VickySGV]

I will second Carolyn Marie's suggestion that folks have circled the block on this one several times by  now and it may be time to move on to other topics.