Still Not Passing

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

It must be a contrast effect. I'm in the computer lab running an experiment with one of my more manly friends. We have a bunch of students in here filling out questionnaires and whatnot, but that's not what's important to the story here. I had forgotten to tell the students that everyone would have to remain in the computer lab until everyone was done. No big deal. I guess I must have said it in an "authoritative voice" because one of the male students goes "Yes, ma'am" in a snooty little kid voice.

Words cannot express my anger.

Of course, as I frequently do, I ignored it. I can't really chew out a student. It would ruin the rest of the data. This is one of those times where you have to pretend you didn't hear.

I find this experience interesting on two levels.

1. Apparently I am NOT passing when judged by young adults. People are calling me "sir" on the phone and at the store...either that or they call me nothing. I haven't gotten a "ma'am" out in public for several months. Getting "ma'am" from a college student really upsets me.

2. It is interesting how perceptions of you differ with respect to gender. If I'd been read as male, I doubt I'd have gotten the same amount of disrespect.

To all you underage folks... there is never a bad time to be polite and respectful. Also, don't be sexist. When you think about it, much of the discrimination against TG individuals is rooted in sexist attitudes and that rigid "binary".

Now I am going to go be grouchy up in my office. As soon as I can squeeze out enough facial hair, I am definitely growing a beard.

[Guest kirsty]

I can only go buy your avatar Picture, but to me you definitely look passable. Don't let this student get you down either

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

I just feel like he must have been reading me as female to make a comment like that. If he'd been reading me as male, those would have been, as we say... "fighting words".

It just stings a little, that's all.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

HURTS

I know this isn't the case here, but in the South - yes ma'm is non gender - go figure.

I don't know what to advise. I can't pass as well as you do - you certainly are a guy in your avatar! Must have been a rumor or somethin' going around, and you were being tested. Ignoring it was probably best.

Now go do the guy thing and slug your fist into a wall - owwww - [hint - pull the punch at the last second, slam your knee into the wall where no one can see - the loud bang will make it 'seem' you really hit the wall hard with your fist - it's all for show anyway - don't tell anyone I let you in on that male secret]

Grin!

Lizzy

[Guest bronx]

Stranded-

Maybe I can help you out a bit, as I know exactly what you are going through. How long have you been on T? The reason I ask you this is because I truelly didn't start to pas 100% until I had been on T for a year. The changes as you know seem to take forever. After the first 7 mos it was better, I had a mustach (sota) but I also had long sideburns and I was still at sometimes getting read as a female. Mostly by younger people and gay people. I think this is because I find that the younger generation has been exposed so to say to more trans people and also gender tends to be more fluid with them. Even after my beard was starting to grow in at 10 months or so some people still called me she, just not as often. At about the year mark my face had become masculine enough that It really didn't matter if I had a beard or not. All I can say is to be patient, your time is coming and when it does life beomes a whole lot easier, to the point when you won't be listening so close to what pronoun people are using.

Hang in there guy, Hang in there...

Angel

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Thanks Lizzy and Angel. I feel bad coming on here and whining, but none of my friends out here in RL really understand. No one except other TG people get what it feels like.

Unfortunately, this kid just read me how I look. No rumors. It was an intro psych student in an experiment. There are hundreds of them. They don't know me from Adam's house cat, to use a term Granny would use. I was just some random grad student running an experiment. Apparently something about me looked like a female. I definitely don't sound female, but apparently something about my looks overpowered my voice. I realize I just need to be patient. It's just that lately I'd been passing so frequently that I got used to it. I even passed when I was getting my hair cut. That's at close range!!

Lizzy, what's this about not passing as well as I do? I saw your most recent pics! You look beautiful!

Angel, it's good to have you here to be the voice from the other side! I've been on T for about 6 months now. Actually, yesterday was EXACTLY the 6 month mark. I've definitely got visible stubble going on, some sideburns, and my face is shaped a bit different. I've had chest surgery. The thing that gets me is that I don't look like a 31 year old man yet. I look too young to be as old as I am, and that's what messes things up. Undergraduates know that I'm older than them, but that I look 14 or 15....which then translates to female because it wouldn't make sense for a 14 year old boy to be a grad student. They probably just know I'm a transman. It isn't like we're unheard of around college campuses.

What really gets me worried is how I'll be teaching again in fall. I really don't want to be teaching a class and get read as female. Hopefully these next few months will bring enough changes where I'll look a little less androgynous and not have to deal with the under the breath murmuring. Although most undergraduates are fine, upstanding citizens, 18 to 22 year olds can also be some of the meanest people you run in to. My high school experiences have given me a permanent fear of teenagers. I cover it well in class and am actually a pretty animated speaker, but the fear always looms near the surface. No amount of exposure seems to make it go away.

Thanks for the support! I'm hanging in there. I guess it only gets better from here. They day when I don't have to worry will be a happy one.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Now go do the guy thing and slug your fist into a wall - owwww - [hint - pull the punch at the last second, slam your knee into the wall where no one can see - the loud bang will make it 'seem' you really hit the wall hard with your fist - it's all for show anyway - don't tell anyone I let you in on that male secret]

Grin!

Lizzy

Thanks for the male secret! That really would scare the sass out of the little twerp. I so wanted to say something. He was my size or smaller. I could have taken him, but I have to be all grown up and whatnot. I keep telling myself that he was just a kid and that it's no big deal. Obviously it is a big deal though because I'm obsessing. Probably the best thing to do is to go to bed and it will all be gone in the morning.

After the experiment was over, that same jerk kid deleted the data off of one of the computers. I SO wanted to not give him credit for the experiment, but I had to. Oh well, heaven help him if he takes an upper level psych class that I'm teaching. If he wants to be a smarty pants, I'll show him what happens when you mess with the master.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Hey Stranded,

One, you pass! Two, I have another thought for you... sometimes guys can jokingly react to someone who is giving orders as to ma'am (deep reference to their mothers) eventhough they completely acknowledge the person giving the orders as male. I would not take too much to heart as to your passability by this comment.

You pass, don't ever forget that!!

LOL

bernii

[Guest bronx]

As far as looking younger I know what you mean, b4 i started T I was about to turn 36 and I looked like a 17 yr old boy. I was still getting carded all the time even for the movies, people thought my wife was my mother. I thought it was because of my size, I'm 5'2" and I weighed about 135 or so at the time. Well it wasn't my height, cause now I no longer get carded. Granted i still look younger than I am I'm turning 38 in a few weeks, buti was told that with my beard I look about 29 or so and with out it I look about 25 so. Just remember everything in stages.

I think I know why you can't get this out of you head, your probably like what else do I need to do. If I only...

Just let it go i know it can be hard but trust me you just have to give time, time.

Angel

[Guest leo]

stranded dont take offensive, before i knew i was trans kids would call me sir, mainly to annoy me, the kid just called you ma'am for effect to big himself up dont worry about it cus u deffo pass

angel black people always seems to look younger, my mum gets carded and she is 39 and her oldest child is 22!

[Sally]

Don't over react, you're passing just fine - you've got living proof of why we don't send donkeys to college right before you.

Snooty kids will say stupid things to find what makes the biggest reation.

Ignoring them is the best way to handle it - this jerk would have done that to your manly partner if he had given the instructions, but without gender being so close to the most imortant thing on his mind - he wouldn't even care!

Relax and just be you - that's good enough for anyone!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Ains - you sound like you are better! You are tough. It goes on forever, my post op friend tells me. It seems we trans worry and worry and worry - it can be self fulfilling, we must give off 'something' sometimes? We don't know always know what it is.

Oh honey - thanks for the compliment!

And one other thing I hadn't thought of - maybe it is the fact you look young. So drink a lot to ruin your liver and get age spots, smoke a lot to get wrinkles on your face! Stay up all night a ruin your health, look grouchy all the time, curse under your breath. Hey - if you live through it, you'll pass better.

oh oh oh - get a big ole pipe or - wow - a cigar to chew on! Don't light them up (poitically incorrect) but just pose with them, glare down at the students with a "so what is your problem, it isn't lit!! attitude.

Or spit into a cup a lot, like you are chewing tobaccy! That's something realllllly man-like. LOUDLY blow your nose into a hankerchief - or better yet, wipe it on your sleeve. No female does THAT!

Hummm - others might have some guy tips for the teaching person.

Oh - suddenly get reaaaaly mad, and wad up a piece of paper and throw it against the wall - or, hey, just SPIT on the wall! (nawwww too much).

Hummmm

This is fun!

Lizzy

[Guest Irielle]

Lizzy - you forgot probably the most important one - scratch your crotch.

[Guest Leigh]

i don't know how you can't pass...i don't see any female in you at all...

just don't let it get you down.

peace&love

[Guest Martin]

It sucks to be misgendered. I was still dealing with that after several years on T. Not very often - most people knew me, knew my masculine name, and accepted me as a guy. However, sometimes strangers used the wrong pronouns. Somehow, my long hair outweighed my facial hair. And sometimes my voice didn't sound masculine enough, even though I'm a baritone. As long as I keep my hair short and my facial hair grown out (even though it's FAR from being a full beard), I tend to be okay. But then there are the random ones - last week, one of my friends called me "she" simply because she misspoke. She was thinking of different girl while she was referring to me, and the word just slipped out. Still, it hurt.

What helps me is remembering it's not a matter of people using correct pronouns or not using correct pronouns, but how often this happens. This was one student. How many of them got it right? In what areas of your life do people get it right? Those experiences do not vanish just because one person calls you the wrong thing one time.

I'm slowly starting to look older. Now people say I look like a high schooler (I'm twenty-two) where as they said I looked like I was twelve when I first came out (I was seventeen). Still, either way I look maybe five years younger than I really am. Maybe I'll eventually catch up to my age. Maybe I won't. And maybe I'll be glad to look young when I'm much older. The problem is that people don't respect younger people as much as older people. So looking young means losing status. But respect can be earned through more than just age. If you do your job well and know what you're talking about, students will respect you.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

Lizzy - you forgot probably the most important one - scratch your crotch.

We always played pocket pool - where you shift it around a lot! ha!

[Guest Pól_Eire]

I'm slowly starting to look older. Now people say I look like a high schooler (I'm twenty-two) where as they said I looked like I was twelve when I first came out (I was seventeen). Still, either way I look maybe five years younger than I really am. Maybe I'll eventually catch up to my age. Maybe I won't. And maybe I'll be glad to look young when I'm much older. The problem is that people don't respect younger people as much as older people. So looking young means losing status. But respect can be earned through more than just age. If you do your job well and know what you're talking about, students will respect you.

I wouldn't feel too bad about looking younger, Martin. My cousin is 35 years of age and he's a cisguy, and people normally think he's in secondary school. I have a friend who's my age (20) who's going grey and balding. Lots of guys don't look their age.

Oh - suddenly get reaaaaly mad, and wad up a piece of paper and throw it against the wall

Or at the rude undergrad...oh wait. Did I say that out loud?

-Pól

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Like I said, I hope that undergrad doesn't end up in one of my lab classes next semester. I'm teaching two of them and both are challenging courses.

I probably wouldn't recognize the little booger anyway. The older I get, the more difficulty I have remembering specific undergrads. It's because "smarty-pants jock kids" all look really, really similar. The age old rivalry continues! At least for now, NERDS RULE!!

Speaking of nerds, I gave my first formal presentation since I began my transition. Once a year we have to present our research projects. Today was my turn. My voice has dropped a lot over the past 6 months, and I think not everyone has heard the "new me".

Today they heard it.

I had 15 minutes to give my talk, which isn't a lot of time. After that, it was my friend's turn. Anyway, I had a LOT of information to cover and had to go at a pretty brisk pace. The whole time I was talking, this professor kept scowling and scowling at me. I couldn't figure out if he was confused, hated my work, or hated me. This professor is kind of annoying because he's only about a year older than me. Yes. I am an "older student", but really only 4 years older than other people at my stage in grad school. This professor just got through things particularly fast. As a result, he thinks he's hot stuff (but actually isn't in my opinion).

Mr. Know-it-All professor just kept on making his little stank face. At one point I made eye contact and communicated a quick "what's your deal?" face. No effect. At this point I'm pretty sure that the guy hates both me and my research. He's one of those snooty people who thinks only his research is worth bothering with. Of course, I beg to differ. His research is lame-o. Mine is awesome.

After my talk we had question and answer session. I rocked that. All the polite professors asked at least one question because that's what you are supposed to do. Mr. Know-it-All didn't ask anything. I kept wondering why. Mr. Know-It-All's student asked me something, but Know-it-All kept his mouth shut and kept scowling. It was SO weird. This dude usually asks all kinds of questions and doesn't typically scowl. In fact, his default expression under most circumstances would be described as "goofy but pleasant".

Suddenly, as I was walking back up to my office, I realized why the dude was looking all mean. I think it was my voice. It's significantly different.

I wish I could know if they guy was freaked out about my voice or if he hated my research. Actually, I'd be kinda proud if he was freaked out by my voice. I mostly don't like the idea that he was scowling about my work.

Oh...after my talk, we all went to lunch at Moe's. I hate going to Moe's because of all the disorder and yelling. I don't care for "WELCOME TO MOE'S!!", not at all. Anyway, the girl behind the counter said "what can I get for you ladies". It was me and a friend. *crushed soul*.

What am I doing wrong? I did need a haircut. I had some fluffy hair going on that maybe looked effeminate. As soon as we left the restaurant, I went and got a haircut. My bangs are too short and look kinda dumb. I'm considering just buzzing the whole thing, but I'm afraid it'll make my head look all small. As I see it, the only positive effect of buzzing my hair (a long buzz) would be that it would stand out more and that people might realize that I am NOT happy being included as one of the "ladies".

Here's me, looking angry.

I'm getting lines on my forehead. Maybe it's the T? Either way, while I don't treasure the thought of looking old, there are probably some advantages to looking a little older.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Wow...looking at myself, I don't see how anyone could mistake me for a woman. I don't make a very attractive girl.

[Guest Jackson]

Wow...looking at myself, I don't see how anyone could mistake me for a woman. I don't make a very attractive girl.

You are such a riot sometimes, Ains.

I'm betting the reason that the guy was giving you the mean look was because of your voice. Oddly enough I've gotten a few more hostile vibes from people I see a lot and I think it has to do with some subconscious reaction to my voice. My boss went through a "phase" a few weeks ago where she was giving me a little bit of a hard time. The only thing I could really attribute it to was my voice. Sadly enough even after eight months, my voice is still changing.

On the positive side, I got carded yet again today when I went to the liquor store. The guy (who was two year younger than me) was laughing because I think he was worried that I'd be mad for getting carded.

I think the problem with us being read as "female" is more so because we look so young. I'm sure the counter girl at the restaurant probably just saw your friend and made an assumption. We don't have the chiseled features that some guys do. I know that I don't look my age or even look professional when I'm out and about off work.

Besides, like Lizzy said, I'm way more apt to say "yes, ma'am" to anyone. It is a knee-jerk reaction that has nothing to do with gender.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Thanks, Jackson. As always, you totally get where I'm coming from and what's going on. I've been on T for 6 months and my voice is still changing. I've been wondering how long before it settles. If it gets deeper than it is now, I won't cry.

You are right about the voice thing. I am almost certain that's what was bugging the guy. From what I've heard, he's a very devout follower of some religion or another, which is beyond rare for an academic. I think he's catholic, but I'm not sure. This is one of those peeps who married their high school sweetheart and has 2.5 kids...that stuff. Mr. Normal.... You know.

I hate to be always thinking that religious people are out to get me, but I keep running into instances where I can't deny it. There are lots of religious people that are very nice people and don't deserve for me to regard them with the air of suspicion that I do. Mostly I just feel kind of...bad.

This professor is someone who has never liked me. I think he has always read me as a butch lesbian and disliked me because of that. There's a good chance that my advisor has talked to him and referred to me as "he". He's not a stupid guy. He probably knows I'm TG. Of course, knowing it and seeing it aren't the same thing. Call me crazy, but I feel like some people react to me with actual disgust. I've seen disgust before, and the face he was making definitely fit that bill pretty well. As a woman, I was pretty nonthreatening to most people. The more male I look, the more "threatening" people must find me. Where I used to be "that mixed up girl", I guess I'm now "the abomination".

I guess this is just an awkward period for me. It will pass in time. I am definitely in this ugly duckling phase. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawkward....

Oh...and on the "ladies" thing. The kid behind the counter did make a snap judgment based on my company. The other people who were with me were guys who are my age (between 26 and 32). Next to them I look like either a child or a female. The sting of "ladies" is palpable. OUCH!!

FYI, college campuses are the hardest place on earth to pass. I don't know if it is because the degree of gender fluidity that is tolerated is so high or what. It really frustrates me how hairy and masculine looking all the 18 year olds are. I feel very inadequate. I definitely did NOT want to eat at the Moe's across from campus, but no one wanted to drive all far just for lunch. I don't have to deal with "ma'am" and "ladies" in restaurants in the part of town I live in. I pass 85% of the time away from campus, and maybe 10% of the time on campus.

Okay, so...here's a pic that includes more of me. I can't get a good one from much further back. The remote for my camera doesn't work.

Should I just buzz my hair? Maybe with a longer gaurd...like a #6 or so? I think I look pretty dumb with shorter bangs. I guess I shouldn't have told the girl at the haircut place to cut them so short.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

Dear Ains,

You are actually so far down the road in your journey that maybe you do not realize it. Passing 85% off campus, well that is truely awesome and inspiring! Your comment about the differential of passing on college campuses vs off campus is intriguing. Do you think that this is that real or simply your perception? I think that you probably pass much more than you realize. I want you to know that your sharing of your fears and concerns has helped me too. As MTF, I have good days (where I am feeling good about myself and have some real passing experiences), and more often than not, I have bad days (well you know why). Reading your post and Jackson's (as well as others), and looking at myself, I realize that we are all way too hard on ourselves!! We are such perfectionists!! I saw your picture in your last post... dude you are a guy! There is no doubt about it! I know your self doubt and insecurities, I have the same issues! We all (FTM and MTF) share in so much of the same concerns, I am absolutely blown away!!

You are going to be 100% in the very near future! You only have to see that you are the man that we all see, and I hope you see too, very soon!

Lots Of Love

bernii

[Guest Little Sara]

I got the looking young think, but no thanks to being MtF, because being biologically male usually runs counter to looking younger. It's from my intersex condition, limited my development so much for some reason, I only look 75% of my real age, or less.

About the guy, probably the voice change that got him all troubled.

I think you pass 100%. I don't know how you physically look besides the face, but the face is the #1 cue (breasts come close behind) for gendering.

What helps me be seen as a cis female? My slight build, my baby face. My very long hair only helps a bit, I don't keep it in top-condition like is expected of women (I brush my hair once in a long while), but it never hindered passing. My voice only "gives me away" if someone is half-expecting me to be trans.

My history has more chances to give me away. (virgin, never been in a relationship, never touches myself)

[Guest Pól_Eire]

I don't think you should buzz your hair -- that's kind of a lesbian stereotype, at least on my college campus.

Can you gel your hair up in the front in that really obnoxious preppy way? That could help with the short bangs.

I hope this phase passes quickly for you, it sucks to be ma'amed.

-Pól

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Bernie, you are cool. Thanks for posting! We all do seem to share a lot of the same worries and insecurities.

It really IS harder to pass on or near a college campus. I'm not the only one who has found this. I've heard lots of people talk about it. We've all tossed around theories. One is that young people have been exposed to transpeople and are better at spotting them. Also, college campuses are typically very accepting of the GLB part of GLBT. For me, it is hard to get masculine enough to not look like a butch lesbian. I wonder if cismen who are my height have the problems I have. As for MTF's, I wonder if the college campus passing vortex holds.

Pól, I know about buzz cuts being a stereotypical lesbian thing. That's why I was wearing my hair longer to begin with. I know it (what I had before) was a men's cut because the hair dresser read me as male and commented on my sideburns. My sideburns grow way too far down for me to be a woman. Anyway, the only reason I considered a buzz cut is because it would serve two functions. 1) If I got read as male, it would be no big deal. A lot of guys, including those my age, wear a longer buzz cut. 2) If I got read as female, maybe they'd be less comfortable assuming I want to be called "ma'am". It's just kind of a frustration thing. If I can't pass as a man, I can at least distance myself from traditional femininity as much as possible.

That's my rationale. Of course, I'm not going to buzz it. Then it will take a lot longer for my bangs to grow back out.

Here's how I had my hair before. I really liked this look better and wish I hadn't gone and chopped my hair all short yesterday. At least I know it'll grow back.