Death Threat Today

[Guest nova]

Today I received a death threat from the guy who lives across the hall. right now he's in jail.

This morning I heard sweeping sounds outside my door. I opened the door to see what was going on. He was standing there with a broom and a giant pile of trash by my door. He says "what the ---- are you looking at." I said, "don't leave your mess by my door this time." I closed the door. He yelled, "---- you, I'm gonna come through that door and take your stuff and break it, and then I'm gonna put you in your coffin." He screamed these threats several more times. I called the police. When they were talking to him, he tried denying making threats, but another neighbor had heard him. while he was talking to the police he kept referring to me as "that queer", and "he" and "him", and then they cuffed him and put him in jail.

I immediately filed a petition for a restraining order and tomorrow the judge's signed order will be ready. The building manager said he'll have to move out when I get the restraining order. The police said he will probably be charged with a hate crime as well.

I am so upset I feel like throwing up. I have a headache.

[CharlotteW]

Jeez, even in San Fran? Wow that's tough.

He just went off on you like that for no reason at all. I wish I could say I am surprised; I am just disappointed. Why the hell gotta react so violently to us, when obviously they don't know anything about us. He did refer to you as a homosexual, and not as trans right? I can't hate this guy, cause if I wasn't trans I could have been like that, BUT Gosh darned that scares the hell out of me as is.

Take care of yourself, you did the right thing I believe.

[Sally]

Ignorance and fear live everywhere.

It is a shame that we have to come in contact with these people, they don't want to be around us, but I really don't want to be around them.

Be careful and be safe.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest April63]

He can be charged with a hate crime? For saying that he's going to put you in your coffin? He didn't even do anything... freedom of speech? If he's been a jerk before, the restraining order may be the right thing to do, but hate crime? For yelling?

This world is messed up no matter how you look at it...

April

[Guest]

He can be charged with a hate crime? For saying that he's going to put you in your coffin? He didn't even do anything... freedom of speech? If he's been a jerk before, the restraining order may be the right thing to do, but hate crime? For yelling?

This world is messed up no matter how you look at it...

April

A threat to put someone in their coffin is a death threat and is illegal for anyone to make and taken seriously. It's hardly a freedom of speech issue.

Laura

[Guest kirsty]

Really sorry to hear about this. Take care and be safe

[Guest ~Brenda~]

OMG Nova!!

I am so sorry for you!! Is there any way that you can confirm that person is incarcerated? My dear, I hate to say this, but for your safety, maybe you should move to a different apartment.

Oh, I just want to hold you!

I am very worried about you!

bernii

[Guest nova]

Today I received a death threat from the guy who lives across the hall. right now he's in jail.

This morning I heard sweeping sounds outside my door. I opened the door to see what was going on. He was standing there with a broom and a giant pile of trash by my door. He says "what the ---- are you looking at." I said, "don't leave your mess by my door this time." I closed the door. He yelled, "---- you, I'm gonna come through that door and take your stuff and break it, and then I'm gonna put you in your coffin." He screamed these threats several more times. I called the police. When they were talking to him, he tried denying making threats, but another neighbor had heard him. while he was talking to the police he kept referring to me as "that queer", and "he" and "him", and then they cuffed him and put him in jail.

I immediately filed a petition for a restraining order and tomorrow the judge's signed order will be ready. The building manager said he'll have to move out when I get the restraining order. The police said he will probably be charged with a hate crime as well.

I am so upset I feel like throwing up. I have a headache.

Yeah, he's been harassing me for almost 10 months. I've never done anything to him. I never tried to come on to him. I've complained to the manager numerous times and had him written up but nothing was done. I think everybody is afraid of him--he sells crack and cooks it up in the community kitchen. I called the police on him once before, maybe that's why he harasses me. He always wears a blue mammy scarf so maybe he's in a gang? He has been dumping trash outside my door for months. Other tenants have seen him do it, He even got caught on camera, but the management always told me to ignore him and he'll leave me alone then !

[Guest Pól_Eire]

Nova,

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Please take good care of yourself and stay safe. Do you have somewhere else safe to stay for a few days in case he comes back?

April,

Below is an excerpt from the "Freedom of Speech" entry in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. I'll summarize it for you, but it's good reading. Essentially, death threats cause harm, so they are a reasonable limit to the freedom of speech.

2.1 John Stuart Mill's Harm Principle

Given that Mill presented one of the first, and still perhaps the most famous liberal defense of free speech, I will focus on his claims in this essay and use them as a springboard for a more general discussion of free expression. In the footnote at the beginning of Chapter II of On Liberty, Mill makes a very bold statement:

If the arguments of the present chapter are of any validity, there ought to exist the fullest liberty of professing and discussing, as a matter of ethical conviction, any doctrine, however immoral it may be considered. (1978, 15)

This is a very strong defense of free speech; Mill tells us that any doctrine should be allowed the light of day no matter how immoral it may seem to everyone else. And Mill does mean everyone:

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. (1978, 16)

Such liberty should exist with every subject matter so that we have “absolute freedom of opinion and sentiment on all subjects, practical or speculative, scientific, moral or theological” (1978, 11). Mill claims that the fullest liberty of expression is required to push our arguments to their logical limits, rather than the limits of social embarrassment. Such liberty of expression is necessary, he suggests, for the dignity of persons.

This is as strong an argument for freedom of speech as we are likely to find. But as I already noted above, Mill also suggests that we need some rules of conduct to regulate the actions of members of a political community. The limitation he places on free expression is “one very simple principle,” now usually referred to as the Harm Principle, which states that

the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. (1978, 9)

There is a great deal of debate about what Mill had in mind when he referred to harm; for the purposes of this essay he will be taken to mean that an action has to directly and in the first instance invade the rights of a person (Mill himself uses the term rights, despite basing the arguments in the book on the principle of utility). The limits on free speech will be very narrow because it is difficult to support the claim that most speech causes harm to the rights of others. This is the position staked out by Mill in the first two chapters of On Liberty and it is a good starting point for a discussion of free speech because it is hard to imagine a more liberal position. Liberals find it very difficult to defend free speech once it can be demonstrated that its practice does actually invade the rights of others.

If we accept the argument based on the harm principle we need to ask “what types of speech, if any, cause harm?” Once we can answer this question, we have found the appropriate limits to free expression. The example Mill uses is in reference to corn dealers; he suggests that it is acceptable to claim that corn dealers starve the poor if such a view is expressed through the medium of the printed page. It is not acceptable to express the same view to an angry mob, ready to explode, that has gathered outside the house of the corn dealer. The difference between the two is that the latter is an expression “such as to constitute…a positive instigation to some mischievous act,” (1978, 53), namely, to place the rights, and possibly the life, of the corn dealer in danger. As Daniel Jacobson (2000) notes, it is important to remember that Mill will not sanction limits to free speech simply because someone is harmed by the statements of others. For example, the corn dealer may suffer severe financial hardship if he is accused of starving the poor. Mill distinguishes between legitimate and illegitimate harm, and it is only when speech causes a direct and clear violation of rights that it can be limited. The fact that Mill does not count accusations of starving the poor as causing legitimate harm to the rights of corn dealers suggests he wished to apply the harm principle sparingly. Other examples where the harm principle may apply include libel laws, blackmail, advertising blatant untruths about commercial products, advertising dangerous products to children (e.g. cigarettes), and securing truth in contracts. In most of these cases, it is possible to make an argument that harm has been committed and that rights have been violated.

You can see the rest of the entry, which is also interesting, here: Freedom of Speech - John Stuart Mill's Harm Principle

The death threat by itself is not allowed under the common interpretation of freedom of speech, and when you add in the fact that it sounds like it was motivated by this guy's hatred of Nova as a transgender person, that's good grounds for a hate crime, I think. I will grant you that the idea of hate speech as a crime is not universally agreed on, though.

-Pól

[Guest April63]

I don't consider hate speech a crime. I think we all have our right to express whatever we want to express. I personally don't really think that a threat should be illegal. If you get a threat, and believe it to be serious, then I think you should just like Nova. Call the cops. Protect yourself. But does this guy really deserve to be locked up over something he said? I think that just pushes it a little. Even if what he said was horrible... it's just a bunch of sound waves...

April

[Guest nova]

He can be charged with a hate crime? For saying that he's going to put you in your coffin? He didn't even do anything... freedom of speech? If he's been a jerk before, the restraining order may be the right thing to do, but hate crime? For yelling?

This world is messed up no matter how you look at it...

April

April, that's what the police said. The first amendment doesn't give anyone the right to yell "fire" in a movie theater just as a prank, and hate speech and criminal threats are not protected speech. Verbal threats can be charged as assault , the judge will look at the fact that I felt the threats were real and the fact that there is a pattern of him using hate speech against me. If anyone thinks that making criminal threats is not doing anything, the law says otherwise. San Francisco city and county has local laws protecting LGBT people in addition to the state of California. Last year a different tenant revealed his plot to murder me--admitted it to the police--and now he is locked up in the state mental hospital for three years. I went through this before with the legal system and the police. I get along quite well with the police, they know I don't make things up or call them at the drop of a hat. There may not be enough evidence to convict him of a hate crime, but they do charge people with it in San Francisco. It is a penal code violation. The president of the citizen's police review board is a transgendered woman. They take death threats very seriously. I was assaulted inside a Carl's Junior's and I was raped in my own building by a guy who snuck past the front desk. I was driven to some deserted area and raped at knife-point by a guy I thought I knew. The rapes were not hate crimes. Both these guys were drooling with lust.

God forbid, but if anyone threatens to murder you, you had better take it seriously. You'll know when someone is serious or "didn't mean it'. This person was not arrested for "yelling", April. "Didn't even do anything" ? do you really believe that?

[Guest nova]

I just had to talk about this. thank you for the support. But, I am overcome with emotion right now. I am crying and I can't stop. I am logging out.

[Guest ~Brenda~]

I just had to talk about this. thank you for the support. But, I am overcome with emotion right now. I am crying and I can't stop. I am logging out.

Dear, nova!

Get out of the neighborhood you in in ASAP!!

I mean it! You are in very grave danger!

I don't want anything to happen to you.

Free speech? Restraining order? Police review board? This all means nothing when your life is in peril.

Do you have friends to stay with? Can they help you move to a different apartment. Leases can be broken. I have done it numerous times. In your case, the lease can be legitimatley broken.

Get out of where you are living, NOW!!

LOL

bernii

[Guest Elizabeth K]

NOVA

My poor lady friend - what a terrible thing to have happened. You did exactly right and I believe you have - fortunately - had the supposrt of the police. In any case, PLEASE be careful! It he gets out your life could be in peril. We trans have very little we can do against pure hatred - and that is what this person has - pure hatred!

Praying for you dear - and I hope others will too.

What a terrible world we live in sometimes!

Love you

KEEP US POSTED! Vent out to us - we want you to...

LIZZY

[Sally]

The thing that you need to be aware of, each and everyone of us is that the law is very clear on threats, they are considered to be verbal assualt and carry stiff penalties - freedom of speech carries a responsibility to use that freedom wisely.

We tend to drive down the highways shouting at other drivers and making gestures - those can also be considered as threats and arrests can be made - they often are the foreshadowing of road rage.

Never threaten to kill or attack anyone- you have no idea who will hear it and what their reaction will be - Nova's was to lock the door and call the police, it could have been to get her gun and blow his head off, he'd be dead and she'd be in jail awaiting trial.

The best way to avoid these situations of escalating violence is to think before you speak and just don't yell.

I have yelled at people and made gestures and realized later just how stupid it was.

I don't want to be stupid any more so I think before I speak.

A word to the wise instead of a threat,

Sally

[Guest skyy]

i'm feel horable about all of this. i'm so sorry for everything that has happened to you. i hope you can get away from all of it. you deserve better than that. i hope you get to feeling better soon.

i'm not even going try and explain all that is wrong with the idea that this violates freedom of speech. a death threat is unaceptable, period. it is much different that yelling, and it can be lethal if it isnt taken care of. that April could think otherwise scares me. i would think that this issue would be one-sided, like rape or murder. for Christ's sake, the woman just got her life threatened, have some sympathy. i guess the world really is messed up.

[CharlotteW]

April, I think you are very naive on this issue. I understand where you are coming from, but this isn't even hate speech. This was a very direct verbal threat that gave everyone just cause to believe Nova's life was in danger. I understand very, very well, how 'hate speech' laws could be abused to silence unpopular opinions, but even the Founding Fathers would certainly agree what this man said was inappropriate and just cause cause for being arrested.

[Guest April63]

I do have sympathy for Nova. This was a very unfortunate thing that happened to her, and hopefully nothing serious will happen to her. It's just that in my opinion, I don't think words are criminal. I do believe actions can be criminal. Words may not be nice, but I think everyone has the right to say them, and if we don't like them, we have the right to close our ears. Perhaps I am naive, but this is just what I think.

April

[Guest Elizabeth K]

I do have sympathy for Nova. This was a very unfortunate thing that happened to her, and hopefully nothing serious will happen to her. It's just that in my opinion, I don't think words are criminal. I do believe actions can be criminal. Words may not be nice, but I think everyone has the right to say them, and if we don't like them, we have the right to close our ears. Perhaps I am naive, but this is just what I think.

April

April - Nova wrote:

I closed the door. He yelled, "---- you, I'm gonna come through that door and take your stuff and break it, and then I'm gonna put you in your coffin."

She had to do more than close her ears. He wanted to come through the door. That is a touch beyond freedom of speech. He might have killed her and probbly wanted to in his rage.

Lizzy

[Guest April63]

Yeah, you're probably right there, Lizzy.

April

[Guest ashley4623]

I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through that... I don't understand why people are so hateful -- it sickens me.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

He can be charged with a hate crime? For saying that he's going to put you in your coffin? He didn't even do anything... freedom of speech? If he's been a jerk before, the restraining order may be the right thing to do, but hate crime? For yelling?

This world is messed up no matter how you look at it...

April

Making verbal threats like that often precedes actual violent crime. It isn't like we live in a police state or something. We have the freedom to say what we want, but we are also held accountable for what we say. I had a friend back in high school who was arrested and suspended from school for muttering under his breath that he was going to kill the art teacher. Obviously he wasn't going to kill the art teacher, he was just an angry kid. I think the important thing to realize is that, most of the time, stable people don't say things like that publically. You have to draw the line somewhere.

BTW, professional psychologists are required by their code of ethics not to break the confidentiality of what a client says, UNLESS the client makes a verbal threat against someone else. That's called the Tarasoff rule. It comes from this case in California back in the 1980's. A guy told his psychologist that he was going to kill a woman, and then he did it. So now, as a result of the subsequent court ruling, psychologists are required to warn people and to report threats of violence.

I do agree with you though. The world IS messed up, no matter how you look at it.

[Guest DanM]

Nova I am so sorry this happened to you and do hope and pray that you stay safe.

Hugggsss

[Guest julia_d]

I was threatened in exactly this way by a neighbour 7 years ago.. the police did nothing about the hate graffitti this animal sprayed on my house.. or the broken windows.. or the threats he made to beat me up or kill me.. which he made right in front of them.

They took no action at all.. and 4 days later the animal and 4 of his friends came through my door and kicked me into intensive care. They were arrested and charged with common assault and got off with a caution.. I moved straight from coming out of hospital.

Get out of there Nova.. this pig sounds like he has gang affiliation.. even if they lock him up his friends will be after you. Doesn't sound like a very nice place to live anyways.. just pack up and move out.. right out. It's not running away if it's saving your life.. There is no such thing as a dead hero *hugs*.. now be safe yeah? vanish off to friends or relatives.. do the great disappearing act that some of us know so well.

[Guest nova]

I feel a little better, I'm just checking in before I try to go to sleep. Tomorrow I go to pick up the judges signed stay away order (restraining order). My landlady told me that if I get it before "he" gets out of jail, then he will never step foot inside the building again because he will be in violation of the order. His apt door is 8ft away from my front door. He will have to move, and have someone do it or do it while the police are there. But even if he bails out before a hearing date, he will have to go when the order is signed and served.

There was some incredulity over the fact that something like this could have a hate crime enhancement attach to it. I'm just going to say one last thing about that.

Penal codes vary from state to state. In California we have Penal Code Section 422.6-422.95

The pertinent part in this instance reads:

422.6. (a) No person...shall by force or THREAT OF FORCE, willfully injure, INTIMIDATE, interfere with, OPPRESS, or THREATEN any other person...because of the other person's race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, GENDER, or SEXUAL ORIENTATION, or because he perceives that the other person has one or more of those characteristics.

© A person shall be convicted of violating subdivision (a) based on SPEECH ALONE, upon a showing that the SPEECH ITSELF THREATENED VIOLENCE against a specific person...and that the DEFENDANT HAD THE APPARENT ABILITY TO CARRY OUT THE THREAT.

If convicted, the punishment is imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars, or both, and the court shall order the defendant to perform a minimum of community service, not to exceed 400 hours....

For the purpose of section 422.6. "gender" means the victim's sex, and includes the defendant's PERCEPTION OF THE VICTIM'S IDENTITY, APPEARANCE, OR BEHAVIOR, WHETHER OR NOT THAT IDENTITY, APPEARANCE, OR BEHAVIOR IS DIFFERENT FROM THAT TRADITIONALLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE VICTIM'S SEX AT BIRTH.

422.95. (a) In the case of any person who is granted probation for any offense defined in section 422.6, the court may order the defendant be required to...complete a class or program of sensitivity training in the area of civil rights, or a one year counseling program intended to reduce the tendency toward VIOLENT AND ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOR....

© It is the intent of the legislature to encourage counties and cities... to establish education and training programs to prevent violations of civil rights and HATE CRIMES.

Whether or not the police will arrest the person has a lot to do with how the attacker responds to the police questioning. The police felt this person was extremely dangerous and they put that in their report. They also strongly suggested that I file a petition for a restraining order as soon as possible, which is what I did.

I'm an emotional mess right now. My chest hurts, my head hurts, I feel nauseated, and I flinch when I hear footsteps in the hallway. His "associates" who hang out on the sidewalk down stairs 24/7, have gotten wind of what happened to their 'partner' and they just glare in silence at me when I walk by. My friend down the hall saw this guy being escorted out of the building and heard him say, "oh, I'll be back".