I Apologize, Really I Do.

[Guest Zabrak]

Seriously, I feel like the problem 'child' 'person' 'guy' (cant think of a better term to use) of Laura's Playground. I start to worry that people might think I post for attention but its not that. Its that I have problems, and lots of them. But I can't convince everyone that so I know I most likely will just come off as a bad person. No matter what I do, how I word it. I just feel like this new topic is pushing my 'ok' line. I know a mod shouldn't post things like this. Everyone has the right to ask as many things as they need too. So do I but...I feel like I should have a limit, or banned from posting topics or something.

I ask my good close friends on here just ignore my topic...don't bother yourself with it. I already bug you far too often.

I have a issue and I've had it for awhile now and I've been debating if I should bring it up or not. I've made this debate over and over in my head. But I've decided to post it because I've pushed it off so much now I've gotten to the 'breaking point' where I can't leave my house anymore and I NEED to leave my house. I have a endocrinologist appointment tomorrow, I have to go to a normal consular to validate my social anxiety and antisocial problems so I can hopefully get helped by my government money wise to keep my home. Until my T helps me in the way I need and I can start making progress towards trying to find a way to fix my social problems.

Like I said, it started when summer started and the evil sun came out to ruin everything I was progression with.

Whats my main issue? I'm less then 120 pounds...Ok so I weighed myself today and I'm 6 pounds lighter then 120 pounds. I don't want to type it out. I have been working out but I've gained no muscle mass at all in six months. Yes, I was going to speak to my endo about this.

What has been keeping this problem covered? It wasn't summer, it wasn't boiling hot outside. I could wear sweaters, long sleeved shirts and my jeans. No one noticed anything and I was addressed him 100% because my face has changed around a lot and it looks like a young mans face.

Whats forcing this problem to become huge again? Like I said, summer, heat, boiling, scorching hot sun. If I wear my normal clothing I turn pure red, I sweat and I get so hot my bodies in pain. I dealt with it till now. But today I came home puking from being over heated, almost fainting and jumped into a cold shower.

I don't know whats worse - putting my mental health at risk or my physical health. I'm pretty willing to bet you no matter what anyone says I will not wear those shorts that show off my girl legs, or those short sleeved shirts that show my tiny, muscle less arms. But I don't want to be a freak anymore and go outside in my winter clothing, or be in pain from heat.

I don't want to leave my house - I CAN'T leave my house but I need too...I need to see my endo but in order to see her I have to have a whole day trip in hot sun fully clothed.

At lest the summers before this I looked fully female, not half male and half female.

[Guest Elizabeth K]

ZAB

Please stop it! Take a deep breath... whewwww

And you have an anxiety disorder - you know that, so does someone else you know. It's not that rare. You know how to minimize it and its a matter of doing that.

Girl legs, girl body - lack of mass? Whatta ya think of other guys? Lotta skiny people. I am natal male - weighed 138 my freshman year in college and I was 6'-2' tall. A beanpole, age 18 - I bulked up to 178 by my senior year - still a beanpole. I drank 5 cokes a day and ate tons of sugar to gain weight. Now I have an insulin intolerance!

So anyway - get to a place where how you look is just fine... at least with Zabrak! Hell with everyone else. Go out and flash them bird legs! Laugh more - make people wonder what you have been up to?

Hey - we moderators need love too... post whatever... let people love you back, as hard as you give out love to them.

Love you

Lizzy

[Guest Leigh]

Seriously, I feel like the problem 'child' 'person' 'guy' (cant think of a better term to use) of Laura's Playground. I start to worry that people might think I post for attention but its not that. Its that I have problems, and lots of them. But I can't convince everyone that so I know I most likely will just come off as a bad person. No matter what I do, how I word it. I just feel like this new topic is pushing my 'ok' line. I know a mod shouldn't post things like this. Everyone has the right to ask as many things as they need too. So do I but...I feel like I should have a limit, or banned from posting topics or something.

I ask my good close friends on here just ignore my topic...don't bother yourself with it. I already bug you far too often.

I have a issue and I've had it for awhile now and I've been debating if I should bring it up or not. I've made this debate over and over in my head. But I've decided to post it because I've pushed it off so much now I've gotten to the 'breaking point' where I can't leave my house anymore and I NEED to leave my house. I have a endocrinologist appointment tomorrow, I have to go to a normal consular to validate my social anxiety and antisocial problems so I can hopefully get helped by my government money wise to keep my home. Until my T helps me in the way I need and I can start making progress towards trying to find a way to fix my social problems.

Like I said, it started when summer started and the evil sun came out to ruin everything I was progression with.

Whats my main issue? I'm less then 120 pounds...Ok so I weighed myself today and I'm 6 pounds lighter then 120 pounds. I don't want to type it out. I have been working out but I've gained no muscle mass at all in six months. Yes, I was going to speak to my endo about this.

What has been keeping this problem covered? It wasn't summer, it wasn't boiling hot outside. I could wear sweaters, long sleeved shirts and my jeans. No one noticed anything and I was addressed him 100% because my face has changed around a lot and it looks like a young mans face.

Whats forcing this problem to become huge again? Like I said, summer, heat, boiling, scorching hot sun. If I wear my normal clothing I turn pure red, I sweat and I get so hot my bodies in pain. I dealt with it till now. But today I came home puking from being over heated, almost fainting and jumped into a cold shower.

I don't know whats worse - putting my mental health at risk or my physical health. I'm pretty willing to bet you no matter what anyone says I will not wear those shorts that show off my girl legs, or those short sleeved shirts that show my tiny, muscle less arms. But I don't want to be a freak anymore and go outside in my winter clothing, or be in pain from heat.

I don't want to leave my house - I CAN'T leave my house but I need too...I need to see my endo but in order to see her I have to have a whole day trip in hot sun fully clothed.

At lest the summers before this I looked fully female, not half male and half female.

Hey Kyle,

have you thought of buying some light weight cotton clothes? if you wear long sleeves and long pants that are made of light cotton you don't have to show off how thin you are, and you won't die from heat.

but, what it really sounds like to me is that you need to gain some weight, brother.

i know not everyone is athletic, but you could get some weights just to try and beef up your arms, if you don't like how thin they are.

other than that, i think that you do need to talk to a therapist if you have such strong anxiety about this. i know it can get really bad. sometimes i don't want to go out because i know people will see me as female. but we have to press on, brother. we just have to challenge ourselves to grow from it.

i hope that i've been able to help, and feel free to PM if you have any questions.

oh, and don't worry about posting a "too personal" topic...that's why we're all here, man.

peace&love

leigh

[Sally]

Zabrak, honey,

This is something that I know all about - I have always had thost thin 'girly' arms and I stopped wearing shorts unless I am playing tennie back when I was 16 and realized that I had better legs than the girls I knew.

People will not see you as anything that you do not 'project' to them.

That being said, look around and notice that every man in your town is not built like Arnold, they are not all wearing shorts and tee shirts.

I would suggest a lighter pair of slacks and a loose white long sleeve shirt.

That was my uniform for I don't know how long and I lived in Texas - our summers have yours beat ba a dozen degrees or so on average.

By the way - your type of muscle doesn't change on T.

I have the type that are long and thin - they can develop strength but will never buldge like the body builder's do.

That makes me happy now but offers you very little encouragement.

The main thing is to do what I have always told the girls to do - go somewhere and watch a lot of men (not a construction site!) and notice the variety of builds, height muscles and clothing.

You are no different from them, go out and enjoy your life - stop worrying so much and you know how good I am at that!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Pól]

Hi Zabrak,

Yes, as a mod you've a certain level of responsibility for levelheadedness and all that, but this forum is here for you too. You deserve to be able to ask for help when you feel like you need it (or even just support, or connection), without feeling bad. Stop beating up on yourself. No one's superhuman. I understand how you're feeling, especially about asking for help, because that's something that I find hard to do also. You're a great guy, and I think you do a bang-up job helping other people here. I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about here.

It sounds like you absolutely need to see your endocrinologist. You've got stuff going on that you need to talk to her about. You know that. So it's a matter of finding a way to make yourself feel comfortable enough to go outside. Look the bottom line is that you've got to be safe, both with your mental health and your physical health. Wearing your snowsuit is probably not a great idea, but you know that If you really don't want to wear shorts, do you have any trousers made out of a lighter-weight material than denim? Like cotton, or warm-ups, or anything. Wearing some kind of sandal may help some because your feet will be able to breathe. For shirts, can you wear a button-down shirt and then roll the sleeves up to mid forearm if you get hot? Those are usually cooler than a T-shirt or longsleeve shirt, or a sweatshirt, they tend to help you pass as male, and have long sleeves --> no muscle problem.

The other thing is lots of guys are really skinny, and some have almost no muscle. So you're not alone. If your face passes that well, I think you'd be OK. What I mean is that if there's no question about your face, people aren't going to be looking at your legs in great detail, should you decide to wear shorts. Ditto for the arm musculature.

Since you can't buy any clothes between now and tomorrow, here's what I think you should do. Go through all your clothes and find the coolest (temperature wise, it's a plus if they're also 'cool') clothes that you feel comfortable wearing. Try those on tomorrow morning and see how hot it is. If it's going to be unbearably hot, don't go. The last thing you want to happen is for you to pass out on the way there. Call your endocrinologist and try to talk to them on the phone, and reschedule. Order some cooler clothes online so that you can go outside. If you do decide to go, bring lots of water. Make sure you eat a good breakfast. You want to maximize your chances for a successful day.

Do you have an appointment with the consular, or is it a drop-in kind of thing? If it's drop-in, go another day.

Try to make the day as easy on yourself as you can, and good luck. Just do your best.

Pól

[Guest ~Brenda~]

My Dear, Dear Zab,

First off, just because you are a mod does not mean that you are super human and devoid of feelings and your own needs. We are all here for the members and each other. Who else do we really have anyway that truely understands? Zab, gaining weight is easy, loosing weight is tough (believe me I have been there). If you want to gain weight, well carbs, lot of carbs, that mean breads and grains, pasta!. Zab, two weeks living on pizza, spaghetti, sausage and pepper sandwhiches, double bacon cheeseburgers, french fries, milk shakes. Your weight will escalate dramatically. Oh, butter is great for weight gain too. I know this because these are all the kinds of foods I avoid to keep my weight down. I know all too well the desire, comfort, safe feeling of staying within the womb of your apartment even when you need to get groceries (I have gone without food for days because I could not bring myself to go to the grocerie store!). In spite of your weight remember that there are many bio-guys thinner than you. Zab, just wear what any thing a guy would wear, baggy T shirts and jeans. Your face, voice, both which I have seen and heard are so passing!! You have nothing to really fear. We all are so hard on ourselves (what is it about being trans and being a perfectionist?) we all think that we don't pass long after we actually do pass to the general public.

Zab, it is OK to share that you are human. See your endo. Keep marching on!!

I hope this helps even the slightest for you

Love

bernii

[Guest nova]

Geez Zabrac,

I never for a second got the impression that you were the "problem child" of the playground. You're not. I think the anxiety weirds out a person's perception. My impression is that you are together and squared away, so to speak. I'm sorry you're going through this right now.

[Guest MrAwesome]

Zabrak, what's your diet like? you can work out an hour every day for a year, you're not gonna get bigger if you don't do some serious eating. I'm on a diet, I have to lose weight. It's medically necessary, and I would LOOOOVVVEEE To be 114 pounds right now. Family size pan of pasta that has over 1000 calories a box --- no problem --- packs of cookie dough --- nooooo problem. Zab, an energy bar EVERY HOUR if that's what it takes. You got to give your body a decent amount of substance if you're going to add mass.

If you're working out your burning calories. Simply existing you're burning calories. If you don't give your body fuel, and don't give it something to work with, you're gonna get smaller cause of all calorie burning your doing exercising.

If you're getting too hot, here's something I learned, you know that stuff they use for muscle soreness that gets cold? Put that on. Not in large amounts and not unless your going out, only when you need it. Put some cold water on that, it's like ICE! Or, perhaps, Under your binder some cold packs. (The Re-usable kind)

And dude, you think I have masculine arms and legs? oh heck no! But I wear summer clothes in winter. I wear shorts daily and rarely wear pants. I even feel comfortable wearing a sleeveless shirt. and no one mistakes me for a girl. and at your weight! I've seen boys that look like THIN toothpicks. And your age too. You have no reason at all to be afraid to go out.

And I agree with Sally, if you sunburn easily and want to wear a shirt, a thin, white long sleeve shirt. Wear sun block too... cause sunburn royally sucks... sometimes people find that SPF 15 works better for them as apposed to the higher numbers...

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Don't feel bad about posting! You are definitely not a problem child!

Hey, I fight with the anxiety too...panic attacks and all that. I definitely understand what you are going through. One tendency I have is to get worked up about things that maybe don't deserve so much attention. I know it feels like everyone is scrutinizing you, but most people notice and remember surprisingly little about what's going on around them. Trust me! I know about these things. You just have to keep telling yourself that people don't pay attention, cause they don't.

You totally need to get to the endocrinologist. That's really important. It does take some time to gain muscle. I picked up some pretty quickly when I started T, but I'd been working out for a long time before that, and I'm a lot older than you. It takes a while to fill out. My brother is about to turn 24 and is just now filling out and looking like an older guy. It's awesome that you got to start T while your body is still developing. You'll get that muscle!

I understand the body image issues too! ...except mine go in the opposite direction. I'm heavy, and the fat lives in very unflattering places for a dude. I wear baggier clothes to hide it. Baggy clothes are good for hiding that you are thin too! Baggy clothes are also better for staying cool. When I have to do professional type stuff (like run an experiment) outside, I don't wear shorts. Since I look pretty "in between" myself, I find it makes older adults uncomfortable. I end up wearing a polo shirt and khakis. Trust me, Florida is plenty hot. I was outside for like 4 hours on Saturday and was fine. Just get some baggy pants and long sleeve t-shirts. My dad works in the yard in khakis and a long sleeve t-shirt...and a pith helmet sometimes (I kid you not - he is protective of his purty skin).

We're both at a kind of uncomfortable point transition-wise. I get you. I really do. Read that one post I made a while back. I get anxious about going out too. Sometimes I think I can't take it anymore, but then I just force myself to do it. I wish I lived closer so I could go with you. However, I wouldn't want you to live down here because then you'd have no health care!

Deep breaths... Stay calm... Also, try to get some mild anti-anxiety meds if you don't have some already. I have needed those in the past, just something to take when I couldn't get myself together on my own. Once you venture out and your self-confidence grows, you can wean yourself off the pills.

Sorry it is so tough, man. I identify with you more than you know.

[Guest Leigh]

Geez Zabrac,

I never for a second got the impression that you were the "problem child" of the playground. You're not. I think the anxiety weirds out a person's perception. My impression is that you are together and squared away, so to speak. I'm sorry you're going through this right now.

yeah, as someone who struggles with anxiety and people's perceptions of me, i have to agree.

they do go hand in hand. i know it's hard, but try not to focus on it, and just let us tell you what we think of you (we like you, honest).

peace&love

leigh

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

Oh... and I forgot to add. I think I have discovered the perfect diet for gaining weight, but I don't think you want the kind of weight I have. Make sure you are eating enough protein.

[Guest Nikk]

Something that might help you is to find some cargo pants that have zip-off bottoms. That way if you find yourself over heating you can always zip off the bottoms so that you don't die or puke or anything. I also would recommend getting a big recyclable water-jug-type-thing that you can carry with you especially if you're sweating a lot.

But you know, most guys don't look like monster body builders, or really look like anything other than sticks.. I have one friend who's nicknamed skinnybean because he's so freaking skinny and he's practically skin and bone... I have at least three other male friends with the body type of a string bean - the rest of my guy friends have the girly Asian-boy bodytype. Most people really don't notice.

~Nikk

[Guest Zabrak]

I'm sorry everyone, I haven't had a high anxiety attack like this in along time. I've been low from depression - but thats not the same. I'm not suicidal - I don't think that has anything to do with anxiety. I'm just really really scared, I can't breath and I can't focus. I pace around my home a lot, even for hours, just trying to focus myself.

Maybe I should warn you all I haven't slept properly since Saturday. Yeah, I've got sleeping issues also but I've had those for aslong as I can remember so its not a big shocker or a big deal. I'm scared of taking sleeping pills so I just let my body do what it needs too.

I am natal male - weighed 138 my freshman year in college and I was 6'-2' tall. A beanpole, age 18 - I bulked up to 178 by my senior year - still a beanpole. I drank 5 cokes a day and ate tons of sugar to gain weight. Now I have an insulin intolerance!

So anyway - get to a place where how you look is just fine... at least with Zabrak! Hell with everyone else. Go out and flash them bird legs! Laugh more - make people wonder what you have been up to?

You weighed 138 pounds? Thats pretty low..but the biggest weight I've been my whole life was 120 pounds. I'd give anything to have that back now. I have no clue where it went(the 6 pounds). Maybe stress - I don't sleep for days and sometimes don't eat for a day so thats also more energy down the drain.

The bird legs comment made me laugh...thanks Lizzy. I needed that.

have you thought of buying some light weight cotton clothes? if you wear long sleeves and long pants that are made of light cotton you don't have to show off how thin you are, and you won't die from heat.

Thanks Leigh. No I haven't thought of that...its a really good idea. I've got some money from my school now so maybe I'll use my tiny extra money on that.

@Sally

Thank you, Sally. Its nice you understand my fears about it and went through this. Makes me feel less alone about the subject. Because I do fully understand most people struggle with losing weight, not struggle to gain weigh. I did not know mucle didn't change on T but I hoped it would help it grow more. I hope my endo has some good advice on this subject.

@Pól

Thanks for the words of wisdom...I'll bring water and I will do that with my clothing because I don't have any time to shop. I have to get up at 6am for my ride and I wont be back till late at night. I'll look through all my clothing. I do have a white t-shirt thats thin, but I worry about things showing through it. We'll see.

@bernii

It helps reading that its ok for me to post. I think its part of my anxiety to think I talk too much.

I eat junkfood all the time yet I still gain zero weight no matter what. All my friends said I'm so lucky I never gain weight - but it feels more like a curse to a transmen. But everyone is right - not all guys are the same. Two of my guy friends are shorter then me - and it makes me feel a lot better about my self knowing that.

@nova

Aw...thank you nova.

@MrAwesome

My diet is...well I eat and drink anything I please at any point. Lots of food unless I'm stressed. My doctor says I just have a healthy body and that because I'm young it can be very normal. I just don't often find people like me to really see it as 'normal never to gain weight'. I'm sorry you struggle with your weight. Want to trade problems? lol

Thanks for those tips to stay cool.

@StrandedOutThere

The only thing is pills scare me. It took me till I was 19 to be OK taking pills for my headache. T wasn't so hard to start because I knew I really wanted it. But we'll see.

I guess its nice to start well my body is growing but sometimes it feels like being 20 is the end of my growth. Even though I know better.

Thank you strand - yeah I think we have a lot in common.

Oh and about the protein...umm...I have been trying to gain mucle so hard that I ate so much eggs and protein products that my body couldn't handle it and I puked out my meal for the day. I'm sort of scared to OD on protein again. lol

[Sally]

I don't know if I ever told you this but in college I was 6' 4" and only weighed 145 pounds - I looked like a skeleton.

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest Zabrak]

Something that might help you is to find some cargo pants that have zip-off bottoms. That way if you find yourself over heating you can always zip off the bottoms so that you don't die or puke or anything. I also would recommend getting a big recyclable water-jug-type-thing that you can carry with you especially if you're sweating a lot.

But you know, most guys don't look like monster body builders, or really look like anything other than sticks.. I have one friend who's nicknamed skinnybean because he's so freaking skinny and he's practically skin and bone... I have at least three other male friends with the body type of a string bean - the rest of my guy friends have the girly Asian-boy bodytype. Most people really don't notice.

~Nikk

Thanks Nikk.

I'd like to meet a skinny guy in real life but I suppose hearing about its nice too. I see it a lot in anime but I'm not sure the skinny, little pretty boy is really all that nice in real life.

[Guest Zabrak]

I don't know if I ever told you this but in college I was 6' 4" and only weighed 145 pounds - I looked like a skeleton.

Love ya,

Sally

O_O

[Sally]

I was the second thinest guy in the band!

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest joe0117]

Hey Zabrak,

I'm sorry you feel so stressed. Stress will wreak havok with the body. You certainly don't complain all the time. The forums are here for everyone including moderators. They get to lead by example not be excluded fom it. I would take some of the suggestions given. Try to wear lighter cotten or blended material for pants rather than denim. It tends to be cooler. If you have tear away pants that snap up the sides - they would allow ventilation Tops are always difficult because of the binding situation. If you can get away without binding and just layering so you don't overheat then do that. If you must bind, Iknow I have to, you could wear a short sleeve shirt and carry a long sleeve shirt. When you are walking to and from buses or buildings, you can be comfortable and dressed whether appropriate. If you get on a bus or are in an office, which are most likely air cnditioned anyways, you can throw on the long sleeves covering your arms to feel more comfortable.

Hope this helps. Always come here for help and to vent. We want to here from you !

Joe

[Guest Evan_J]

Ok, now you're scaring me. And I even mean way before the overheating-clothes part.

"Bothering" people? Are you serious?

You hardly ever post problems for you. Once or twice sure, but not remotely how you

think you are perceived. You really think you are this unimportant to us? This scares me. Because

I know how much you are loved.

The clothing thing? That scares me because obviously you've been running around jeopardizing your health.

DON'T DO IT. I realize that there is a serious desire to look "male of body", I have that too, and have been

bothered (yep this year) by how much I have not been working out lately, but if there are other reasons why

you so emotionally need to be "big", and you don't want to post them here, pm me.

There's nothing wrong with being "the skinny dude". Self consciousness can go both ways. I am the definately not

skinny dude. I went in a corner store around a week ago and the store guy -tryin to be friendly - was like "what's up big man" lol

So I might be passin for a lot of things but one of em is obviously not "slim". Now I could give myself a hellacious complex

about that or I could realize that sometimes some guys are perceived "as that" ; the big guy. Yes, I can excercize and eat better

and all that good stuff and get more in a shape I want but at least its a type of dude. The slim guy is one of the types of dudes too.

Or the short guy. Or the really tall guy...... My bio cousin (who I hardly see come to think of it....) is "the guy who wants a mustache" (I'm

sad for him) He reaaaally wants to be able to grow a whole mustache. It only grows in two spots

Every body has "something". You like Ainsley don't you? He's the "Sam the Eagle eyebrow guy" (I hadda do it to you Ainsley, you been spared too long. ) And you know what? That's fine. It's actually kind of hype. Cuz it too is one of the types of guys. AND it's a distinquishing trait. -If you let it be.

You're 20 Zab. You're not supposed to look 30. And some of the pressures you're puttin on you are just not based on

what's likely for a 20 year old young man. Cut yourself some slack. Listen to the advice cuz most of what I've read is EXCELLENT.

You might think about some of what Pol suggested to figure out what you do want to wear. I like the long sleaved T idea from Sally too.

I wear a lot of long sleaved T's. Just cuz I think they look good.

And whatever you do, don't get to shutting it all in and not talking to us.

[Guest Zabrak]

Thanks joe and Evan. Happy to see you here joe.

I am a little hard on my body, but I've always tried to be good to it...Maybe I am being a little critical. This summer just felt like it sent me back in time as to my confidence in looks. Also, you're right about my age, although I have seen some big guys like my boyfriend. Even though my boyfriend is three years older. It doesn't seem like a big age gap to me. Again though...you're right. Every guy is not the same and I need to learn how to focus on that.

Its 2:30 AM and I just woke up from a nap. I'm not tired at all now and I have some time to pick out something that wont leave me too drive myself crazy.

[Guest joe0117]

Good luck with your appointment Zabrak!

Stay cool - temp wise - you already are cool

Remember to breathe!

Joe

[Guest amie]

Never feel timid to express yourself, Zabrak. Sometimes it has to be done. I hope yu get to feelin' better.

[Guest Zabrak]

Thanks again joe... And thanks amie.

I got something together that I'll be able to stand; the thinnest cloth(older and used I suppose so I've warn them down) blue jeans and a brown short sleeved shirt. I decided if people were going to look at my arms/hands they would be staring at my veins first of all. They stick out A LOT because I have zero fat in my body to cover them up. lol

[Guest Donna Jean]

I don't know if I ever told you this but in college I was 6' 4" and only weighed 145 pounds - I looked like a skeleton.

Love ya,

Sally

Yeah, Zab......

We used to put bubble gum on Sally's head and poke her down the sewer to get our ball back!

She never told you THAT either!

I love you, Zab....really, really do...

Donna Jean

[Guest Zabrak]

Yeah, Zab......

We used to put bubble gum on Sally's head and poke her down the sewer to get our ball back!

She never told you THAT either!

I love you, Zab....reall, really do...

Donna Jean

LMAO

Oh Dee Jay...you're great.

I feel a lot better then I did at the start of this thread.