Explaining Sexual Orientation

[Guest Bethany]

My thoughts on this topic are, though someone may be asking for information, you could very easily give too much to achieve any real understanding. To educate others would be ideal, however it is my opinion that some people can only educate themselves, based on a set of brief to the point facts and a context. Knowing that there are so many differences in the way others process information the spectrum between linear thinking and intuitive thought is massive. to convey meaniful explinations you'd have to know how the person you are talking to processes information between the linear and intuitive. let me explain my point in this way, to just declair your'self a lesbian is to the point however so much is implied that almost noone will comprehend all that it means, we must allow others to examine the facts and adjust their own definitions to describe new (to Them) concepts. Information presented in its most simple form such as I am a woman, I like women, sets a fact and a context, and is a way of expression that would allow more people to understand in their way at their own level, and we must not forget the absortion time for new information varies from person to person. A lot of people need to draw their own conclusions. I had recently been asked if I was gay, my response "by you're defintion or mine?"I know I still confuse people, some can enjoy logic loops while other dont. The context of all this comes from my recent re-realization that you have to allow others to be who they are. I have been so worried about being accepted that I'd forgoten to allow others to be who they are.

Rofl Note to self: lighten up,,,,

Hugs Bethany

[Guest angie]

Welcome Bethany,

A good post,very thoughtful And insiteful.

And i particularly like the(Note To Self;Lighten Up) closing satement.

Gave me a giggle,a snicker,a chuckle and a smile.

Hugs,

Angie

[Guest Cait]

I like Men and Women but I don't feel very much connected to Gay people.

(i like being around them as they aren't going to gang up on me for being different)

I have told men I was really a woman inside, but the first dumped me, even though He himself had

a period of transition he quit.

The last guy just looked at me sort of blankly---he doesn't seem offended.

I do like women because they have been more understanding of my feelings---but not so much after transition.

( i haven't been with very many people anyway to take a real pole...)

Sometimes I feel worn down by explaining my position to people...

I would say I was Bi-sexual but sometimes just Identify as Gay or being into Men to make things more

simple, and I feel this is fair to women too, in that I am not a heterosexual, and don't want to hurt people.

Don't want to be hurt myself either though!!

Cait

[Guest krisspykriss]

wasnt quite sure where to put this but this seems alright lol.

so who here is a staright t-girl and has trouble trying to explain that even though you like males, you're not just gay? i always have this problem and it really bugs me. my friends dont undertsand that i can be attracted to boys but want to find a straight one. so how do you, any of those that have the same problem, explain the difference between gender dysphoria and sexual orientation?

I joined a local social club for tgurls and guys who like tgurls. My boyfriend runs the club and does a great job keeping the wrong people out of it (girls and guys). We meet at cubs, parks ect. I dont know if there is one in your area, but you might look. I found a lot of friends and even a straight boyfriend!

Good luck

Chrissy

[Guest krisspykriss]

I personaly half jokingly call myself tgurl straight and my boyfriend bi-lite. I like men. He likes girls and girls. Sorry, but in my opinion a man who dates a pretransition tgurl is kinda almost gay or kinda almost bi. The guy is interacting with me in ways a totally straight man wouldnt...unless he really really understood me and loved me. But again he has to have enough bi in him to get to know you up till understanding you and falling in love. I know it isnt "the way" we are told we shud look at it, but facts are facts. Almost all entirely straight men wont have anything to do with someone with a penis.

So I guess what I am getting to is quit looking for an understanding straight guy (at least until you transition) and start looking for a bi guy who acts totally straight. Remeber not only is gender a spectrum but sexual orientations is as well.

Chrissy

[Guest My_Genesis]

love when old posts are revived lol.

there is so much misconception about these kinds of things. I even see it in my friends (one, a male who doesn't know I'm trans, the other a female who knows I am.) In the first case with my male friend, we were talking about Pete Burns, who for anyone who doesn't know was the lead singer for the band Dead or Alive, known for his androgynous appearance and assumed to be gay because of it (he's actually bisexual..anyway that's besides the point) ...I mentioned something about this guy being gay, and my friend says "well actually, he's transgendered, so he's neither, he's not gay, he's not straight." And i was ready to go into an explanation about that not being true but I think I just ended up changing the subject :/ Plus he's not transgendered so idk where he even got that idea from...

With my other friend who knew I was trans...she watches Jerry Springer (I'm not gonna go and tell her to stop because I believe in individuals making decisions for themselves ) so one day, she texts me, and asks me something like, if you become a guy and I sleep with you does that make me gay? and i said no... and she's like "that's what i thought, but Jerry Springer said that, so I was wondering." and something about believing me rather than him. (well geez i'd hope so!!!)

anyway, just bugs me sometimes when people don't get it.

I had the same problem. I am a straight guy and people kept confusing me with being a lesbian. When I came out and tried to explain it, many well meaning friends or family saw an over simplified solution in trying to be gay instead of transitioning. I knew it wouldn't work because I was never a girl attracted to other girls. I explained that my gender identity was how my brain was wired, not defined by physical appearance. I could not except the idea or be comfortable with a woman being attracted to me based on the female form of my body. I was not happy or connected to my physical characteristics and had to transition to a male just to feel normal. My sexual orientation was simply who I was attracted to and it wasn't related to my gender dysphoria or caused by it. Some of them have come around as I morphed. Now that they see me as male, they are better able to see me as straight.

Matt

I agree with Matt, about not being comfortable or being able to accept the idea of being a female attracted to females. but since i am a very blunt person , i probably would have explained it more along the lines of you aren't comfortable sexually as a female with other females (and of course, since you aren't comfortable as a female anyway...duh), and you want to be the guy in a sexual relationship.

obviously this explanation can work for mtf's too (that is, if it actually works...lol.)

I personaly half jokingly call myself tgurl straight and my boyfriend bi-lite. I like men. He likes girls and girls. Sorry, but in my opinion a man who dates a pretransition tgurl is kinda almost gay or kinda almost bi. The guy is interacting with me in ways a totally straight man wouldnt...unless he really really understood me and loved me. But again he has to have enough bi in him to get to know you up till understanding you and falling in love. I know it isnt "the way" we are told we shud look at it, but facts are facts. Almost all entirely straight men wont have anything to do with someone with a penis.

Unfortunately, i'm going to agree with this. lol.

(ps sorry this was so long..a lot of it was quoting though so yeah )

[Guest Evan_J]

<---actually agrees with ALL of what mygen has to say for once

**hunts and pecks his way back off the forums

[Guest gwenthlian]

Hmm well I sometimes have trouble explaining that im asexual to people.

You work your way through it: heterosexual = opposite sex, homosexual = same sex, bisexual/pansexual = both/all sexes and finally asexual = no sexes.

I have gotten so many confused responses sometimes its "what?!?! no one??? not even *insert name of celebrity*, sometimes its like *strange look* "so you like animals?" sometimes its "omg poor you must feel completely alone and basically exist only as a soulless husk" and very rarely its like "wow you are so lucky! my bf/gf/so is a right *****/*******/swear word of choice"

So yes it can get difficult to explain your sexuality (or apparent lack thereof) to another, it can also be quite amusing ^^

As a side note I would consider a man dating a pre-op mtf to be completely straight, perhaps thats just my view

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Hey!

My orientation as of right this moment is Asexual.

I am currently not attracted to men...but as transition evolves.

My orientaion will evolve in turn.

Though i haven't been with a man,that is the relationship i see myself in eventually.

A straight woman with a straight man.Pure and simple.

Pure and simple?There is nothing simple about any of this journey,now is there.

If one considers themselves straight,no matter what others may feel...that is your right.

It Is Your Life Afterall.

Hugs All,

Angie.

Trying to explain gender, and sexual orientation from the point of view of a trans person is enough to drive even the trans person to distraction. Considering that most of the world doenst understand us and a portion of those who dont, wish we didnt exist; I have been asked about my orientation, I usually say, like me its evolving. The only people who got it first time out were my brother and his partner (btw he's gay). Everyone else seems to look puzzled, hopelessly confused or just look like they wish they hadnt asked.

I get tired of trying to explain it to those who dont really want the answer; I feel like asking are you really sure you have time for the full explanation, there is no reader's digest version.

[Guest My_Genesis]

Hmm well I sometimes have trouble explaining that im asexual to people.

You work your way through it: heterosexual = opposite sex, homosexual = same sex, bisexual/pansexual = both/all sexes and finally asexual = no sexes.

I have gotten so many confused responses sometimes its "what?!?! no one??? not even *insert name of celebrity*, sometimes its like *strange look* "so you like animals?" sometimes its "omg poor you must feel completely alone and basically exist only as a soulless husk" and very rarely its like "wow you are so lucky! my bf/gf/so is a right *****/*******/swear word of choice"

So yes it can get difficult to explain your sexuality (or apparent lack thereof) to another, it can also be quite amusing ^^

As a side note I would consider a man dating a pre-op mtf to be completely straight, perhaps thats just my view

animals?

I mean, I was never able to fully conceptualize asexuality myself... i even considered being asexual for a period of time but that's because the thought of being a lesbian was equally disconcerting to me as being a straight female. so i was just like, huh, i must be asexual. 'cept it never fit cuz i still felt like deep down i had this.. "male-rooted".. sex drive. so it just completely didn't make sense... but anyway my point is liking animals never crossed my mind despite the fact I never could fully comprehend it.. doesn't that fall onto a different spectrum altogether?

oh, i recently read this saying somewhere, "all men are queer for their own penises."

(I'm gonna pretend I didn't see Evan creep his way back in here without saying a word about how his surgery went )

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Really what is being asked is how do you explain the unexplainable to those who really dont want to know the answer in the first place. In popey's words "I am what I am and thats all that I am". I'm a woman, and it doesnt really matter to any one but me and any partner I might have whether I chose to be with a woman, a man, both, or neither.

let them chew on that for a bit

[Guest My_Genesis]

Really what is being asked is how do you explain the unexplainable to those who really dont want to know the answer in the first place. In popey's words "I am what I am and thats all that I am". I'm a woman, and it doesnt really matter to any one but me and any partner I might have whether I chose to be with a woman, a man, both, or neither.

let them chew on that for a bit

yeah well in that case basically your sexual orientation is who you are attracted to relative to your gender identity, not your physical sex. straightforward if you think about it except many people don't get that :/

[Guest krisspykriss]

yeah well in that case basically your sexual orientation is who you are attracted to relative to your gender identity, not your physical sex. straightforward if you think about it except many people don't get that :/

Because they are looking at it from THEIR perspective (which is different form YOUR perspective). If you not living and passing as a female, 95% of straight men see you as a guy regardless of how female you are on the inside, or your mannerisms, or you personality... Same goes for most everyone else as well. I wouldn't get so hung up on a label. Labels are so binary male/female, gay/straight, femme/masc... they just don't show the nuances inbetween. Like your in transition your kinda between male/female. It's not like you wake up one day and Viola! your a woman. You go through an awkward period in between where you are kinda both. When you cross that binary line from male to female is kinda a fuzzy logic sort of thing, and again your opinion is gonna be different than others because your perspective is different.

I don't see why so many of my sisters get so hung up on this. Beside rather than answer "I am straight" you can always say "I like men". That avoids the confusion. OR you can fight battles like this that are not important in the long run. It is your choice, but quite frankly I think it is silly.

[Guest nonamesleft]

I've pretty much taken to the notion of being pansexual, so this doesn't really apply to me specifically. I know there are a lot of ignorant people who would never accept a trans person in their assumed gender identity, so a mtf will always be a man, therefore if you are with men, you are a Sweetie, etc, in their own meager minds. Even if you are post-op and 100% passable, they are still going to call you by your birth gender, out of hate, fear, or just sheer stupidity. Even people who are not specifically trying to be bigots still sometimes just don't grasp the notion of accepting us completely as what we present ourselves as, preferring to see as and men who want to be women or women who want to be men. This is what happens when we are such an insignificant fringe group which remains largely unknown and mysterious to the majority of people. I just don't really care what these kind of people think of me. I'm not interested in giving them the satisfaction of insulting me, nor do I really care enough about their opinion of me to bend over backwards trying to make them accept something they do not want to see. There are a lot of stubborn people who are completely unwilling to open their minds at all to the notion that they could be wrong about something, and any argument is futile, and therefore not worth my time.

One thing I have seen in the trans community is that there is definitely some homophobia exhibited by some of us. Some of us seem to be adamant about asserting our sexuality as being hetero, as if being homo would be wrong or immoral. I know some of us just want to clarify what we like, but sometimes it goes beyond that, and i have seen some trans people talk down about homosexuals, as if they are a class below us, which I think is absurd and highly hypocritical. I know a lot of people in the gay community do look down on us, but that doesnt make it right for us to make the same mistake, we are equal, and we all have similar lifes, similar problems, and similar goals in life and in equality. Plus just about all of us except for the asexuals fit under the LGB flag either before or post transition, depending on who you ask and how you define it, whether we like it or not.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I've pretty much taken to the notion of being pansexual, so this doesn't really apply to me specifically. I know there are a lot of ignorant people who would never accept a trans person in their assumed gender identity, so a mtf will always be a man, therefore if you are with men, you are a Sweetie, etc, in their own meager minds. Even if you are post-op and 100% passable, they are still going to call you by your birth gender, out of hate, fear, or just sheer stupidity. Even people who are not specifically trying to be bigots still sometimes just don't grasp the notion of accepting us completely as what we present ourselves as, preferring to see as and men who want to be women or women who want to be men. This is what happens when we are such an insignificant fringe group which remains largely unknown and mysterious to the majority of people. I just don't really care what these kind of people think of me. I'm not interested in giving them the satisfaction of insulting me, nor do I really care enough about their opinion of me to bend over backwards trying to make them accept something they do not want to see. There are a lot of stubborn people who are completely unwilling to open their minds at all to the notion that they could be wrong about something, and any argument is futile, and therefore not worth my time.

For some reason I've always been compelled to drive my point home in that situation, I always want people to see things my way

One thing I have seen in the trans community is that there is definitely some homophobia exhibited by some of us. Some of us seem to be adamant about asserting our sexuality as being hetero, as if being homo would be wrong or immoral. I know some of us just want to clarify what we like, but sometimes it goes beyond that, and i have seen some trans people talk down about homosexuals, as if they are a class below us, which I think is absurd and highly hypocritical. I know a lot of people in the gay community do look down on us, but that doesnt make it right for us to make the same mistake, we are equal, and we all have similar lifes, similar problems, and similar goals in life and in equality. Plus just about all of us except for the asexuals fit under the LGB flag either before or post transition, depending on who you ask and how you define it, whether we like it or not.

i think that has a lot to do with feeling insecure. Just like there are probably a good amount of homophobes who are insecure with their own sexuality, i think it's because a lot of us feel insecure with our own situations in life and it can make a trans person feel more secure with themselves by talking down on someone else? idk.

[Guest _Michael]

I went through some issues with the sexuality labeling too. I came out as a lesbian when I was 18, then at 19 as genderqueer, then at 20 as fully trans. To be honest I don't know how to even label myself because I'm attracted to androgynous people and transmen predominantly! I got asked by a couple straight guys the other night, as SOON as they found out I was trans, if I liked the girls or the boys. I hate it when that's the first question people ask, as if they're trying to classify you with SOMETHING since they can't wrap their minds around anything else. Whenever I get asked in passing if I like men or women, I always just say I'm pansexual now and that I judge it on the person.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I got asked by a couple straight guys the other night, as SOON as they found out I was trans, if I liked the girls or the boys. I hate it when that's the first question people ask, as if they're trying to classify you with SOMETHING since they can't wrap their minds around anything else. Whenever I get asked in passing if I like men or women, I always just say I'm pansexual now and that I judge it on the person.

My friend asked me that basically right away. Straight female though. if that's even relevant to my point. It didn't bother me to much at the time, I just told her I'm straight but for some reason now I feel like I have something to prove and I don't even understand why (ego problem maybe? ) especially since she's told me numerous times that she believes me and everything I've told her, etc. I guess I'm just a neurotic headcase. lol.

[Guest Evan_J]

.......I just told her I'm straight but for some reason now I feel like I have something to prove and I don't even understand why .....

But see, thats just the thing, "straight which way". Straight as in what you are which is a man or straight as in what body unfortunately you're still stuck in? And when you look at it like that thats when it makes you mad and you realize "who the hell cares?" Cuz no matter who it is you're sleeping with it does not describe who you are.

Unfortunately , *everybody is describing themselves through who is in their bed or who they would like to be in their bed or some other qualifier utilizing "bed".

The rest (of the world) is defining themselves by their genetalia.

Just once I would like to hear somebody (not trans cuz you actually might find it amongst trans people) NOT need to sum themselves up based on sex or sex organs .

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

But see, thats just the thing, "straight which way". Straight as in what you are which is a man or straight as in what body unfortunately you're still stuck in? And when you look at it like that thats when it makes you mad and you realize "who the hell cares?" Cuz no matter who it is you're sleeping with it does not describe who you are.

Unfortunately , *everybody is describing themselves through who is in their bed or who they would like to be in their bed or some other qualifier utilizing "bed".

The rest (of the world) is defining themselves by their genetalia.

Just once I would like to hear somebody (not trans cuz you actually might find it amongst trans people) NOT need to sum themselves up based on sex or sex organs .

Another way to answer, which might leave them hopelessly confused would be to say something like, my life is currently in transition so my sexual prefference is rather fluid. From time to time I might like men, women, both or neither.

[Sally]

My answer, "And exactly what difference could it make to you, it is none of your business and I don't find you attractive anyway,"

Love ya,

Sally

[Guest krisspykriss]

Another way to answer, which might leave them hopelessly confused would be to say something like, my life is currently in transition so my sexual prefference is rather fluid. From time to time I might like men, women, both or neither.

That is direct, honest and blunt. I like it.

My answer, "And exactly what difference could it make to you, it is none of your business and I don't find you attractive anyway,"

Love ya,

Sally

Sounds rather confrontational and spiteful to me. Not the way to make and keep friends. Some people when they ask questions like this because they are genuinely curious and mean nothing judgmental. You can usually tell if someone is being snarky and judgmental. That's a fine line for those. What do you do though when a good friend is curious and just wants to know more about you? Friends do discuss intimate details about themselves, especially girlfriends. Do what you think is best, but I sincerely think to always answer these questions in such a manner is a mistake.

[Guest Joanna Phipps]

Hmm well I sometimes have trouble explaining that im asexual to people.

You work your way through it: heterosexual = opposite sex, homosexual = same sex, bisexual/pansexual = both/all sexes and finally asexual = no sexes.

I have gotten so many confused responses sometimes its "what?!?! no one??? not even *insert name of celebrity*, sometimes its like *strange look* "so you like animals?" sometimes its "omg poor you must feel completely alone and basically exist only as a soulless husk" and very rarely its like "wow you are so lucky! my bf/gf/so is a right *****/*******/swear word of choice"

So yes it can get difficult to explain your sexuality (or apparent lack thereof) to another, it can also be quite amusing ^^

As a side note I would consider a man dating a pre-op mtf to be completely straight, perhaps thats just my view

Some of the posts on sexuality have really got me thinking, for some time (although preop) I have been professing as lesbian. Truth be told I really dont know what I am right now, not sure if I (from my perspective) prefer men, women, both, neither. My entire life is in transition so it seems my sexulity and sexual preferences are too; I will hold to the stating i am lesbian until things settle out (its just easier to explain to some ppl) then I will see how I feel and go with it.

just come comments from the peanut gallery

[Guest My_Genesis]

My answer, "And exactly what difference could it make to you, it is none of your business and I don't find you attractive anyway,"

Love ya,

Sally

@Evan - this was right after i explained all the trans stuff, that I identified as male etc. And actually i didn't describe it per se as "straight", i think i went into an explanation of who i find attractive and why i consider it straight.....honestly though at this point i really don't remember too much detail of that convo. but she even accused me once of trying to somehow prove things that i really shouldn't care less about proving, it's all internalized, that's the part that makes me mad, should just say i have ocd and call it a day

[Guest Cait]

I tell people i meet, who seem interested, that I'm Gay.

If I feel if they are ok with that, maybe at some point I can discuss being TG.

Sometimes I admit to being TG anyway--with my current apperance , people just look confused .

Don't think people give this alot of thought, really.

My features seem to be getting more and more defined, but I just don't worry so much about what people

think. I've lost alot of weight and they think I'm sick...even worse, this isn't that extreme.

(my weight lose goal IS kind of extreme---this is very moderate where i'm at now)

Take advantage of people's lack of awareness, I say.

It is believable enough that i might be Gay, so i go that route, and certainly have been in that area

anyway!

I've dated some women, but I find them to be "brutish".

Of course, my personality is often passive and "go with the flow"---women don't like this, they want action

some kind of jail bird

anyway... the situation is often that M2F

have no feelings of being attracted to Males or any experience with Men in a Romantic Situation.

I assume this is what you mean here?

It seems to work saying your a "woman trapped in a man's body!!"

People like that one, they can grasp it.

I already feel mostly Female, and I am doing my transition to look more how i want to look!

This is all "upgrading" to me. I don't know if that makes sense.

I've always gone both ways and at the same time, felt Female so.....I feel a deep problem figuring out exactly what I am.

Is it that people are going to say your Gay?

Certainly, i'm going to be accused of "not being able to be Gay" because i'm from a religious home, when that isn't true.

All my encounters with Men involved me wanting to be Female, and sometimes dumped for expressing just that!!!

So...it isn't always important, as these things can take care of themselves with time.

Try to find a Friend or Friends to shop with and eat lunch with...

I have a neighbor who will do these things with me, and there is no Sexual Element involved, but the situation

is one of acceptance and friends might be what you need---Acceptance, rather than figuring out who is or isn't attracted to you!

love and hugs,

C

[Guest My_Genesis]

I assume this is what you mean here?

It seems to work saying your a "woman trapped in a man's body!!"

People like that one, they can grasp it.

yeah it's definitely more concrete, people seem to like that. ...including me