I'm not dysphoric. Or am I?

[Betty K]

@Mirrabooka, I have never gotten any solace from wearing girl stuff under boy stuff — for me it was always all or nothing — so please take what I say with a grain of salt. To me, your current situation sounds supremely frustrating and I can only imagine it would be blessed relief for you to spend all your time presenting female. To me, it has always seemed a fairly acute dysphoria that will make someone want to wear a bra (or knickers or whatever) under their man clothes. In my case I just couldn’t see any point in that at all; for me it was either suppress the urge entirely or give in and go full woman mode, and for years I really did suppress it entirely. 
 

But as I said, don’t listen to me. What do I know? I know that I am so overjoyed to have finally accepted myself that I can hardly believe I wasted so much time getting here. But I know hardly anything about you.

 

And yes, it’s scary. I get that. I had to hit rock bottom before I was willing to face my fear.

[Ashley0616]

I first started wearing women's underwear but I knew it wasn't enough. I had to go all the way in. I haven't looked back and I'm proud of what I'm becoming. I know without a doubt that I'm gender dysphoric as it has been hidden for 32 years. The best advice is to take things slow and be certain that way there won't be any regret. 

[EasyE]

Wow, it is so refreshing to meet people who struggle with similar things and realize I am not the only one ... 

 

4 hours ago, Mirrabooka said:

I removed the bra, because it was a bit obvious under my tee. No big deal, this is normal for me.

This is totally me every day ... I currently live with my dad, as my wife and I are separated. My room and workspace (I work from home much of the week) are downstairs away from where he usually hangs out much of the day. I get up before him, get dressed up and then change back to guy mode when he gets up and starts roaming. And back and forth I go all day. Change into girl mode when he's upstairs, scramble to change back when I hear him coming down the steps...  I am getting more bold with just leaving girl stuff on (not yet with skirts but getting closer) but it is still a supreme struggle to not feel comfortable going all in, which is what I want to do... It is the same when I see my wife and kids - try to get away with as much as possible without giving myself away ... such a tightrope...

 

3 hours ago, Betty K said:

 I have never gotten any solace from wearing girl stuff under boy stuff — for me it was always all or nothing — so please take what I say with a grain of salt. To me, your current situation sounds supremely frustrating and I can only imagine it would be blessed relief for you to spend all your time presenting female. To me, it has always seemed a fairly acute dysphoria that will make someone want to wear a bra (or knickers or whatever) under their man clothes. In my case I just couldn’t see any point in that at all; for me it was either suppress the urge entirely or give in and go full woman mode, and for years I really did suppress it entirely

 

This too! But I can't suppress entirely (I sometimes feel selfish that I can't/won't to bring my wife back closer to me)... But I am not yet at the point where I can go all in either ... 

[EasyE]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:54 AM, Betty K said:

we are still the same person: they are not losing anything but an illusion; they are gaining a more authentic person.

Very wise words

[Betty K]

18 hours ago, EasyE said:

This too! But I can't suppress entirely (I sometimes feel selfish that I can't/won't to bring my wife back closer to me)... But I am not yet at the point where I can go all in either ... 

After crossdressing from roughly age 6-11 I suppressed my gender identity ruthlessly for the next 28 years, minus a couple of androgynous phases. I think I was scared because at age 11 I had felt such an overwhelming desire to come out. When, at age 39, I finally let myself crossdress again, I quickly graduated from doing so in private to going out clubbing en femme every weekend, to giving serious thought to transitioning, to — from fear — going back in the closet. Though from then on I couldn’t suppress the urge totally, I convinced myself I was “just a crossdresser” (don’t ask me how) and would dress periodically only to feel confused and frustrated and try to resist the urge again. I would never have even considered a day-to-day compromise, since it would have only heightened the frustration. When eventually I accepted that I was trans, though I remained mostly closeted in my daily life, I would dress periodically and hook up with men via dating apps or, as I got more confident, go out and about with friends, until eventually that too became horribly frustrating and I went fulltime.
 

I think in my case social dysphoria was by far my strongest motivator. I wanted people to see and know me as feminine. The rest was all just torture and frustration.

 

18 hours ago, EasyE said:

Wow, it is so refreshing to meet people who struggle with similar things and realize I am not the only one ...

It certainly is. For me, it was a revelation. Can I suggest an irl support group if you haven’t joined one already? That can really help too.

 

Oh, and I feel you w/r/t your dad. It was only once my father died that I finally went fulltime. That wasn’t a conscious decision, but I don’t think it was a coincidence.

[EasyE]

2 hours ago, Betty K said:

Can I suggest an irl support group if you haven’t joined one already? That can really help too.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Can I ask what an IRL support group is? 

 

It's been a perfect storm for me over the past 18-24 months that has brought all of this out into the open. Looking back over my life (i'm 53), there has always been this thread of me wanting to wear women's underwear/lingerie and doing a lot to make that happen (and a lot to make sure no one else knew about it).

 

Then, between my wife & I separating, and other factors (stress over my mom getting real sick and eventually passing away) I started giving more oxygen to this part of me - and finally acknowledging, that for better or worse, right or wrong, this is me - I like to wear women's clothing (more than underwear) and would prefer that 100 percent of the time. Before I knew it, I had fanned into flame a wildfire! (Still not contained and still spreading).

 

I had a therapist in 2022 and early 2023 who kept asking me transgender questions. No, no, no I said. It isn't about that! I even told another counselor that my wife I were seeing briefly (with my wife present) that this wasn't about transition at all. I was just enjoying the crossdressing aspect. "But you're on a slippery slope toward transition," my wife would say. "No I am not!" I would respond vehemently. And well, alas, it appears she was right about that part. I seem to have slipped and tumbled all the way down the hill toward the HRT doorway -- and am currently hoping my doctor fulfills a prescription this week so I can start...

 

It's all so confusing still... Am I doing the right thing? How do you not hurt people? And is there ever a part where you don't think about this stuff night and day and can just get on with living life like a normal person, whatever that means? That's the part that is aggravating at times. It takes so much time and energy mulling over all of this - and feeling like Mrs Doubtfire as I change clothes off and on throughout the day as situations arise... 

[Mmindy]

21 minutes ago, EasyE said:

Can I ask what an IRL support group is? 

Good morning @EasyE

 

At 67 years of age, I'm sometimes confused about the short cut texts used when communicating. The toughest thing about text conversations is in many cases they don't have punctuation or context. It is my believe that IRL is short for, In Real Life. So I agree with her statement that attending group sessions In Real Life is so beneficial, be cause you have real people to relate to.

 

Hugs,

 

Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋

[Betty K]

11 minutes ago, EasyE said:

feeling like Mrs Doubtfire

Omg, we can’t have you feeling like Mrs Doubtfire! That truly does sound hellish. 
 

“irl” is just internet shorthand for “in real life”. If you live in a city you should be able to find a trans and/or lgbtqia support group.  You could ask at the local LGBTQIA community centre.
 

28 minutes ago, EasyE said:

It’s all so confusing still... Am I doing the right thing? How do you not hurt people? And is there ever a part where you don't think about this stuff night and day and can just get on with living life like a normal person, whatever that means?

I think we all have doubts right up to and including our first years on HRT. I still, bizarrely, sometimes have doubts now, but the evidence of how much happier I am can’t be denied. It’s confusing, yes. The most confusing thing is to look back on my past and think “What was that all about?” I doubt that feeling will ever fully go away. As  to thinking about gender a lot, I still do that 18 months in, but I also spend several hours a day just going to work, the gym, the park, and hanging with friends (cis and trans). My life feels way more healthy now than it did before.
 

Oh, and how do you not hurt people? Are you sure it really IS you hurting them, or are they generating that hurt themselves? I think the wives of transfemmes may have a right to feel a little betrayed if we have hidden our identities from them, but I also think we — especially at our age and over (I’m 50) — can legitimately plead mitigating circumstances. The societal pressure against self-acceptance was so great, I don’t think it’s surprising we buried this stuff. My ex-wife and I are closer than ever now. It can happen, but you have to be willing to let go of what you had. And aside from your wife, who has a legitimate right to feel as if you’ve hurt them?

 

[Ivy]

I remember as a kid looking at my mother's things, but thinking this was somehow forbidden.  So I repressed any thoughts I had along those lines.  I grew up in a conservative environment.  The idea of being transgender, simply didn't exist.  My curiosity regarding things fem was something I was ashamed of, and hid.  

There was no option but to live in the stereotypic male mode - even if I was largely faking it.

I married, and had a family.  In the last few years I have come to suspect/realize that I was living my fem side vicariously through my wife.

But I repressed any thought of being transgender (or even queer) even after I was aware of it being a thing.  This inspite of numerous clues that were obvious to other people including my wife.

It was only after separating from her that I finally got the courage to actually secretly try crossdressing.  I was amazed at how happy it made me.  It was kinda like I realized who I was after 60+ years of faking it.  My "crossdressing" phase lasted a week at the most.  

I started coming out more and more publicly.  Before long, after a serious internal struggle, I called a Planned Parenthood clinic.  (NC is still an informed consent state at this point.)  After that with the help of a couple of my daughters I was able to get into the VA system which is where I get my HRT at this point.

I've been on HRT for around 6 years now, and couldn't be happier about my gender.  I've changed my name legally, and gender on ID.  Our current politics sux, but that's a different issue.

 

18 minutes ago, Betty K said:

Oh, and how do you not hurt people? Are you sure it really IS you hurting them, or are they generating that hurt themselves? I think the wives of transfemmes may have a right to feel a little betrayed if we have hidden our identities from them, but I also think we — especially at our age and over (I’m 50) — can legitimately plead mitigating circumstances. The societal pressure against self-acceptance was so great, I don’t think it’s surprising we buried this stuff. My ex-wife and I are closer than ever now.

This.  (I'm 73 myself)

My ex eventually remarried (a guy of course) but we are still friends.

[Betty K]

 

19 minutes ago, Ivy said:

In the last few years I have come to suspect/realize that I was living my fem side vicariously through my wife.

So familiar! I used to coach my wife on what to wear sometimes. Not always — she has great taste — but sometimes I couldn’t resist. 
 

[KathyLauren]

2 hours ago, EasyE said:

How do you not hurt people?

 

In life, not just in transition or transgender issues but in life in general, you cannot guarantee that you will not hurt people.  You do your best to avoid causing hurt.  That is all you can do.  Sometimes hurting just happens anyway. 

 

This is particularly true when transitioning in a relationship.  How your partner takes it is something you cannot control. 

[Ivy]

4 hours ago, Ivy said:

 In the last few years I have come to suspect/realize that I was living my fem side vicariously through my wife.

I mean this seriously.  I was her midwife for 6 home births  among other things.  I was so jealous of her breastfeeding the babies.

I had one latch onto me once and have never forgotten it.  I still think of it at times.  (It was hot weather and I had a fairly new-born lying on my shirtless chest.  I guess she zeroed in on a nipple.  Those little young'uns can seriously suck, trust me.)

And all the time I was still pretending to be a guy.

[EasyE]

11 hours ago, Betty K said:

Omg, we can’t have you feeling like Mrs Doubtfire! That truly does sound hellish. 

I say that in jest of course... you have to laugh at yourself... Mrs. Doubtfire has been one of my favorite movies since it came out... 

 

"Daniel, hi..."

"Could you make me a woman?"

"Honey, I'm so happy..." 😉

 

 

[Mirrabooka]

So much to unpack here. Thank you all for your thoughts.

 

I guess I'm wired differently. I don't, and never have, felt any compulsion to go 'all out' with dressing femme. A little bit is enough, whether it be panties and bra under 'boy clothes' (but let's face it, most women seem to wear jeans or track pants, and tees or hoodies too) or occasionally, one of my wife's tops in the privacy of our home. And of course, nighties in bed. Dresses don't appeal to me, nor does passing.

 

I've spoken before about the comparative euphoria that I feel while feeling the snugness of a band around my torso for example, and in particular, how it relieved some unrelated stress the other day. I've also spoken in the past about the fact that I think about gender all the time...constantly...which I now know is a tell-tale sign that I'm definitely sitting somewhere on the transgender rainbow. The thing is, those thoughts themselves I find to be delicious. They don't appear as incongruence to me. Those thoughts ARE my therapy.

 

 

[Betty K]

1 hour ago, Mirrabooka said:

but let's face it, most women seem to wear jeans or track pants, and tees or hoodies to

The thing is, most women can wear track pants and hoodies and everyone still knows they’re women. I don’t pass, but because of the way I dress everyone knows to treat me as a woman if they want to be friends with me.

 

I’m so curious what you get from wearing a bra under a hoodie? I just don’t understand where the euphoria stems from in that scenario. Do you think it might be a symbolic thing, like a secret reminder of your femininity? 

[Ivy]

6 minutes ago, Betty K said:

I don’t pass, but because of the way I dress everyone knows to treat me as a woman if they want to be friends with me.

Same here.   And of course, I love how a nice dress feels.

[Betty K]

14 minutes ago, Ivy said:

Same here.   And of course, I love how a nice dress feels.

 

Agreed. I love how they look too. I just love pretty clothes, always have done.

[April Marie]

1 hour ago, Betty K said:

I’m so curious what you get from wearing a bra under a hoodie? I just don’t understand where the euphoria stems from in that scenario. Do you think it might be a symbolic thing, like a secret reminder of your femininity? 

I'm in a position where full transition will never happen. And so, wearing panties, a bra and, in colder weather tights are feminine touchstones that help me "feel" my identity when I can't go full-on feminine. For me, these are ways to tamp down the dysphoria. Of course, what works for me may not work for others.

 

I absolutely feel my best when I'm full on in women's clothes with make-up on. Still, I can also feel happy in a sweatshirt and yoga pants. But, having that bra, in various forms, and panties has become part of my everyday dress that helps keep me from hopping on the Dysphoria Train.

[Betty K]

25 minutes ago, April Marie said:

For me, these are ways to tamp down the dysphoria. Of course, what works for me may not work for others.

I know there are many other transfemmes who find these things work too, I’ve just never understood why. I guess a “feminine touchstone” is a bit “symbolic”? 
 

I’m sad to hear you think a full transition will never happen. Are you really so sure? 

I guess a “full” transition will probably never happen for me either in some ways. Do you mean even a fulltime social transition will never happen?

 

 

[Ashley0616]

[April Marie]

3 minutes ago, Betty K said:

I know there are many other transfemmes who find these things work too, I’ve just never understood why. I guess a “feminine touchstone” is a bit “symbolic”? 
 

I’m sad to hear you think a full transition will never happen. Are you really so sure? 

I guess a “full” transition will probably never happen for me either in some ways. Do you mean even a fulltime social transition will never happen?

 

 

Of course it could be labeled as "symbolic" - they are items generally considered as feminine in our current society. For me it becomes a way to feel, at least partially, feminine. The reality is, though, that we are all unique and have to find our own sense of comfort, of self, of happiness. This helps me.

 

I'm positive I'll never fully transition. Given my age, my commitment to my wife, my recognition in our community even social transition would be very difficult. And so, I work to find what makes me feel as happy as possible and enjoy what things I can do and the times I have where I can reflect the true me.

 

Unfortunately, where I live is not very open to diverse ideas although they profess to. There is no visible trans community or support and only limited LGBTQ+ support organizations.

 

That's not to say that I'm not happy with where I am and in what "transition" for me can be. I just keep moving forward and expanding my opportunities as I can. The proverbial baby steps approach.

[Erica Leigh]

1 hour ago, April Marie said:

Of course it could be labeled as "symbolic" - they are items generally considered as feminine in our current society. For me it becomes a way to feel, at least partially, feminine. The reality is, though, that we are all unique and have to find our own sense of comfort, of self, of happiness. This helps me.

 

I'm positive I'll never fully transition. Given my age, my commitment to my wife, my recognition in our community even social transition would be very difficult. And so, I work to find what makes me feel as happy as possible and enjoy what things I can do and the times I have where I can reflect the true me.

 

Unfortunately, where I live is not very open to diverse ideas although they profess to. There is no visible trans community or support and only limited LGBTQ+ support organizations.

 

That's not to say that I'm not happy with where I am and in what "transition" for me can be. I just keep moving forward and expanding my opportunities as I can. The proverbial baby steps approach.

 

The quote, "Bloom where you're planted" feels especially descriptive of your situation. Kudos for recognizing the pieces that make you feel more like you within the constraints you've identified!

[April Marie]

1 hour ago, Erica Leigh said:

 

The quote, "Bloom where you're planted" feels especially descriptive of your situation. Kudos for recognizing the pieces that make you feel more like you within the constraints you've identified!

Thank you. I choose to be happy with my life. It may not be exactly as I would like but I have so many blessings. I am me, no matter how I may present to the world. 💕

[Susan R]

2 hours ago, April Marie said:

It may not be exactly as I would like but I have so many blessings. I am me, no matter how I may present to the world.

We do what we can do! When I first started transitioning in my 20’s, there were several variables that like @April Marie kept me from transitioning completely. My work was one factor. I was satisfied with transitioning part time socially through role change and presentation along with some voice and gesture modification. It kept my dysphoria at bay and served me well for a decade.

[April Marie]

11 minutes ago, Susan R said:

We do what we can do! When I first started transitioning in my 20’s, there were several variables that like @April Marie kept me from transitioning completely. My work was one factor. I was satisfied with transitioning part time socially through role change and presentation along with some voice and gesture modification. It kept my dysphoria at bay and served me well for a decade.

You are so right...and such an inspiration. 🌈