Sort of a Lousy Introduction

[Abigail Genevieve]

9 hours ago, April Marie said:

 🙂 When I'm unable to express my true self, I almost always have a light-weight bra on, almost always wear women's jeans ( they just fit me better), wear tights in the winter and unisex sneakers and shoes. All that helps to tamp down the dysphoria.

 

 

Bra - when I exercise.  I don't need it and some women go braless. 

jeans - check.  Why they fit better I don't know. No HRT over here and they fit.  Bye-by man card or something. 

Tights in the winter - underneath jeans?

unisex sneakers and shoes - yep

 

In my job days I worked with a lot of women who wore jeans and little to no makeup yet were fully feminine. So my emotional concept of how women dress is jeans, t shirt and work boots unless it is something fancy, which was rare.  Then when there was something like the company Christmas dinner they overdid it.

[April Marie]

1 hour ago, Abby Gen said:

Bra - when I exercise.  I don't need it and some women go braless. 

jeans - check.  Why they fit better I don't know. No HRT over here and they fit.  Bye-by man card or something. 

Tights in the winter - underneath jeans?

unisex sneakers and shoes - yep

 

In my job days I worked with a lot of women who wore jeans and little to no makeup yet were fully feminine. So my emotional concept of how women dress is jeans, t shirt and work boots unless it is something fancy, which was rare.  Then when there was something like the company Christmas dinner they overdid it.

No HRT here, either. I don't need the bra but, for me, it helps. In the cold weather I will wear tights under jeans or just knee high socks or  stockings depending on my shoes.

 

It's just a matter of finding what works best to make you feel good about yourself. To be able to look in the mirror at any point of the day and see "you."

 

 

[Abigail Genevieve]

Nuts. I am a girl. Nuts.

 

When I start talking like this the other shoe usually drops after a while and I go into guy mode.  It is infuriating.

[Ashley0616]

Just now, Abby Gen said:

Nuts. I am a girl. Nuts.

 

When I start talking like this the other shoe usually drops after a while and I go into guy mode.  It is infuriating.

I'm confused. Are you happy about the female side or the male side? 

[Abigail Genevieve]

15 minutes ago, Ashley0616 said:

I'm confused. Are you happy about the female side or the male side? 

Let me think out a decent response.  You think YOU are confused.  For years I have cycled between thinking I am a girl and a guy, and when I get to a certain point I know I am about to flip.  What has changed is writing what I have written here.   Elsewhere I spoke of the grey zone between transgender and intersex: I may be in that space and it is not a simple matter of saying my gender id is such and such and therefore....It's messy.

[Ashley0616]

2 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

Let me think out a decent response.  You think YOU are confused.  For years I have cycled between thinking I am a girl and a guy, and when I get to a certain point I know I am about to flip.  What has changed is writing what I have written here.   Elsewhere I spoke of the grey zone between transgender and intersex: I may be in that space and it is not a simple matter of saying my gender id is such and such and therefore....It's messy.

Non binary sounds like it would fit. Nothing wrong with that. I would definitely see a gender therapist who is qualified and can diagnose the issue. I talk to mine once a month and hopefully in the future twice a month. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

47 minutes ago, Ashley0616 said:

Non binary sounds like it would fit. Nothing wrong with that. I would definitely see a gender therapist who is qualified and can diagnose the issue. I talk to mine once a month and hopefully in the future twice a month. 

There are counselors around here, some of whose websites I have looked at and not been convinced they would be helpful.  In the past I've gotten "you need to decide what you want to do" and "huh".  And in picking counselors you are also picking the direction you want to go.

 

But I like, I love, I delight in being a girl.  It is sort of like settling on a beach in Hawaii, all comfy, listening to the waves, enjoying the sunshine, and remembering that there IS that plane flight back to Fargo ND in midwinter coming up.   It is entirely possible that 1) you all will help me figure out enough to be able to confidently trot off to a counselor or 2) the cycle is broken because of this new thing, this involvement hee, and I will stay in girl mode, which I consider a very good thing. Boy mode involves wishing I was in girl mode and feelings of dysphoria, which don't happen in girl mode. Until that airplane arrives.

[Ashley0616]

30 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

There are counselors around here, some of whose websites I have looked at and not been convinced they would be helpful.  In the past I've gotten "you need to decide what you want to do" and "huh".  And in picking counselors you are also picking the direction you want to go.

 

But I like, I love, I delight in being a girl.  It is sort of like settling on a beach in Hawaii, all comfy, listening to the waves, enjoying the sunshine, and remembering that there IS that plane flight back to Fargo ND in midwinter coming up.   It is entirely possible that 1) you all will help me figure out enough to be able to confidently trot off to a counselor or 2) the cycle is broken because of this new thing, this involvement hee, and I will stay in girl mode, which I consider a very good thing. Boy mode involves wishing I was in girl mode and feelings of dysphoria, which don't happen in girl mode. Until that airplane arrives.

I definitely understand that. I have left almost everything male. All my clothes and shoes are women's. My voice is passing but I still want to perfect it. Retail therapy is AWESOME! I have almost 60 pairs of shoes and boots. I might stop at 100 or heck might keep going. I'm having to have to move my shoes to the bedroom due to the amount and the shoe size is 13. I'm glad that you are finding a little relief with dysphoria. Just give it time. It's a marathon not a sprint. Soon I'll be on HRT for 1 year. I remember the struggles. I attempted to commit suicide multiple times because I hated myself. I was sent to the psych ward and even had to do another inpatient program too. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

One thing I definitely want to do is read a lot more of this forum than I have.

 

This place is great.

[Ashley0616]

42 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

One thing I definitely want to do is read a lot more of this forum than I have.

 

This place is great.

Yes it is! It also helped me to journal my experiences and put them out there.

[April Marie]

I found my therapist through Pride Counseling. I lucked out and clicked with her immediately. Entirely online. Ultimately, I switched to her private practice, still online. I met with her weekly for about a year and then twice a month since. She's helped me tremendously in determining who I am and how to move forward in a way that makes sense for my ultimate goal of remaining with my wife.

 

You will find lots of great info here and wonderful people who will offer their ideas.

[Abigail Genevieve]

I went and looked at myself in the mirror, stared, looked and looked and looked.  The last time I did this in girl mode I went immediately into guy mode for three months, pulling of clothing because I looked ridiculous.

 

Nope. Still in girl mode.  I plan on staying in girl mode.

 

If THAT doesn't trigger flipping to guy mode, nothing will. 

 

 

[Ashley0616]

18 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

I went and looked at myself in the mirror, stared, looked and looked and looked.  The last time I did this in girl mode I went immediately into guy mode for three months, pulling of clothing because I looked ridiculous.

 

Nope. Still in girl mode.  I plan on staying in girl mode.

 

If THAT doesn't trigger flipping to guy mode, nothing will. 

 

 

I'm glad to hear that you went through and are still enjoying it. It is stressful and fun at the beginning. Getting to first see a therapist and what wouldn't make it any better than SHOPPING for clothes and shoes. Finding your own style is fun too! Women have SO MANY more choices in clothes than men do. Then it's makeup or not and purse or wallet and even the wigs with style and color. The choices are endless. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

No sign of the Kobiyashi Maru.  I have hopes it won't show up.

[Abigail Genevieve]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:48 AM, April Marie said:

 

 When I'm unable to express my true self, I almost always have a light-weight bra on, 

 

You found a safe place here. Welcome.

What do you mean by a light-weight bra? Undetectable?  I have heard of t-shirt bras that are supposed to be invisible even under a thin t-shirt, but I am skeptical.  You prompted me to try wearing a sports bra yesterday, since there was little risk, under a heavy, colored t-shirt, and I did until I had a meeting.  I found myself missing it when I took it off.  Today we see a nurse, so no bra until after she leaves.

 

So far I am very impressed with this place but I have only been here since Friday.  Marathon, not sprint.  In touch with my inner Ent. 

[April Marie]

10 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

What do you mean by a light-weight bra? Undetectable?  I have heard of t-shirt bras that are supposed to be invisible even under a thin t-shirt, but I am skeptical.  You prompted me to try wearing a sports bra yesterday, since there was little risk, under a heavy, colored t-shirt, and I did until I had a meeting.  I found myself missing it when I took it off.  Today we see a nurse, so no bra until after she leaves.

 

So far I am very impressed with this place but I have only been here since Friday.  Marathon, not sprint.  In touch with my inner Ent. 

No endorsement here at all and actually am not all that thrilled with the quality of what you get for the prices but En Femme sells (at pretty steep prices) some bras that they call light support bras - gathering and sleek design. They are lightweight material with no padding and are pretty much undetectable unless someone is really looking or handsy. I'll wear one of those under a t-shirt if I want to pretty much ensure no one will notice, especially the sleek design. Of course, color counts so black under a white t-shirt might show through. Unfortunately, they are not cheap, even when on sale, so I have one white and one black. Someone might be able to offer suggestions on similar bras that are less expensive.

 

 

At the next level up in detectability are bras like the Costco Member's Mark bralette - lightly padded but thin enough to withstand scrutiny under a sweater or quarter zip or sweatshirt. These are my go to bras but they can be seen under lighter colored t-shirts, especially and will give your bust a more rounded look. It makes you look like you lift weights and focus on your pecs. 🙂 They hide well under sweatshirts, quarter-zips, etc but I do wear them with just a t-shirt, too. But watch the colors. And, they are inexpensive either at Costco or on Amazon. I wait for deals and there are other similar styles by different manufacturers.

 

 

Trial and error is the way to find what works for you. And, it's fun. 🙂

[Abigail Genevieve]

Different t-shirts have different weights and I have found some that you cannot see a sports  bra through, but I check for visibility.  Yesterday we went to the doctor and I had such on, conveniently under a rain coat due to weather, and it worked.

 

And a black bra under a white t-shirt - thickness does not matter.

[April Marie]

5 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

Different t-shirts have different weights and I have found some that you cannot see a sports  bra through, but I check for visibility.  Yesterday we went to the doctor and I had such on, conveniently under a rain coat due to weather, and it worked.

 

And a black bra under a white t-shirt - thickness does not matter.

Absolutely. true on weight.

 

I made the mistake of wearing a black bralette under a yellow t-shirt to a doctor's appointment once thinking I was fine because I had a quarter zip sweatshirt over it. I'd been seeing this specialist several times and they never checked my BP. Of course, this time the nurse wanted to and I had to remove the quarter zip. I know she noticed but never said a thing. 🙂

[Ivy]

I'd rather they see the bra than what's in it.  But I'm 100% out anyway.

[Abigail Genevieve]

12 minutes ago, April Marie said:

Absolutely. true on weight.

 

I made the mistake of wearing a black bralette under a yellow t-shirt to a doctor's appointment once thinking I was fine because I had a quarter zip sweatshirt over it. I'd been seeing this specialist several times and they never checked my BP. Of course, this time the nurse wanted to and I had to remove the quarter zip. I know she noticed but never said a thing. 🙂

Once upon a time I went to Wal-Mart wearing a bra under a t shirt and I came home and looked in the mirror and yikes - like a mile away you could see it.  Short hair, facial hair, men's glasses, not trying to pass, just wearing it "undetected". Nobody said anything.  A customer looked and then looked away, but staff will not say anything for fear of getting in trouble.  I think in most places of business you could do that and no one says anything; maybe in some restaurants they might ask you to leave, and in some bars you would get beat up and thrown out on your ear.  I don't go to those bars. I wouldn't patronize a restaurant that didn't want my business. 

 

If I were going to attempt to pass, I would know how the women my age are dressed before I went there so I don't go to WM with  feather boa and four inch heels.  Here they mostly dress in jeans, and a loose shirt and sneakers.  Maybe they are all men trying to pass as women, in which case they are making it.  Dunno. The younger women strut their stuff, but I am not one of them and would not try that. 

 

I'm thinking about trying because I have enough trouble passing as a man.  Maybe it would be easier. But my wife likes my facial hair......

[April Marie]

7 minutes ago, Abby Gen said:

Once upon a time I went to Wal-Mart wearing a bra under a t shirt and I came home and looked in the mirror and yikes - like a mile away you could see it.  Short hair, facial hair, men's glasses, not trying to pass, just wearing it "undetected". Nobody said anything.  A customer looked and then looked away, but staff will not say anything for fear of getting in trouble.  I think in most places of business you could do that and no one says anything; maybe in some restaurants they might ask you to leave, and in some bars you would get beat up and thrown out on your ear.  I don't go to those bars. I wouldn't patronize a restaurant that didn't want my business. 

 

If I were going to attempt to pass, I would know how the women my age are dressed before I went there so I don't go to WM with  feather boa and four inch heels.  Here they mostly dress in jeans, and a loose shirt and sneakers.  Maybe they are all men trying to pass as women, in which case they are making it.  Dunno. The younger women strut their stuff, but I am not one of them and would not try that. 

 

I'm thinking about trying because I have enough trouble passing as a man.  Maybe it would be easier. But my wife likes my facial hair......

I just did my first "public outing" at a Wal-Mart last week. Walking in, I realized everyone was in jeans and sweatshirts....and I was wearing a black sweater over a Black Watch plaid skirt, green tights and black ankle boots. I almost got back in my car but just walked in like I owned the place. One young woman came up to me and complimented me on my skirt and asked where I'd bought it. A gentleman about my age (almost 70) smiled at me as we passed. No one else seemed to notice or care as I wondered around, shopped and bought several pair of earrings and some body lotion. 

 

Smiled all the way home.

[Abigail Genevieve]

1 minute ago, April Marie said:

I just did my first "public outing" at a Wal-Mart last week. Walking in, I realized everyone was in jeans and sweatshirts....and I was wearing a black sweater over a Black Watch plaid skirt, green tights and black ankle boots. I almost got back in my car but just walked in like I owned the place. One young woman came up to me and complimented me on my skirt and asked where I'd bought it. A gentleman about my age (almost 70) smiled at me as we passed. No one else seemed to notice or care as I wondered around, shopped and bought several pair of earrings and some body lotion. 

 

Smiled all the way home.

Yep.  Sometimes ladies at the bank, in business suits and hose and pumps, stop by WM at lunch or whatever and no one thinks a thing of it.  Attitude.  Anyone who comes in and sort of fearfully slides along the wall, looking like they are panicking, is going to draw attention, probably from Security.  But if you walk in like you belong there, no problem.

 

I ALWAYS

[Abigail Genevieve]

1 minute ago, Abby Gen said:

Yep.  Sometimes ladies at the bank, in business suits and hose and pumps, stop by WM at lunch or whatever and no one thinks a thing of it.  Attitude.  Anyone who comes in and sort of fearfully slides along the wall, looking like they are panicking, is going to draw attention, probably from Security.  But if you walk in like you belong there, no problem.

 

I ALWAYS

Posted accidentally

 

I ALWAYS, no matter where I am, look at what the ladies are wearing, especially those my age.  This is something my wife has told me women constantly do.  Women are constantly under observation from other women. 

[Timi]

2 hours ago, Abby Gen said:

What do you mean by a light-weight bra? Undetectable? 

Just sort of following along with @April Marie's reply. I have one bra from Pepper - the Mesh All You bra. I like Pepper because they focus on small cup sizes (they call it the IBTC haha). I have mixed feelings. I've worn it in public in guy mode under non-form-fitting tops, and felt good. Can't really tell from the photo but this is what I'm talking about. The setting was a crowded apres ski deck. 

 

 

But the mixed feelings ... the first time it was an amazing cure for my dysphoria. But now there is an element of being aware that I'm not filling the smallest cup size (AA) .... so not always such a wonderful feeling. I think I will eventually try some of their other products. As well as the En Femme that April mentioned. 

 

But truly -- my day-to-day go to for 5 months has been non-compressive skin-tight tank tops (on Amazon - DEVOPS "men's muscle dry fit compression tank top"). They simply fit snug and for some reason make me feel feminine. Although it says they compress - they really don't. 

 

As April said ... trial and error!

 

-Timi

 

 

 

[EasyE]

I more fear being caught wearing a bra with folks who know me (family, friends, church members) ... On the flip side, I sometimes enjoy that I am messing with people when I go to places like WalMart and I'm wearing some feminine items (frilly socks, pink shorts, bra under my T-shirt, etc). I have no courage around the family most of the time, however. sad