Did You Choose Your Gender?

[KathyLauren]

2 hours ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

if you have a y chromosome, infallibly, you are a male.  And that whatever the doctor says when you are born is infallibly your sex. 

 

And even those two "standards" are at odds with each other.  A person with XY chromosomes can be assigned female at birth and a person with XX chromosomes can be assigned male.  The haters would do well to learn some actual biology instead of Facebook biology.

[Abigail Genevieve]

IF we truly cannot change out gender,  does not not imply that there can be a moral obligation to transition?

[Timber Wolf]

To answer the original question. For myself, there was no chosing. It would be so much easier to have my gender match my assigned birth sex.  Given all the backlash we receive, the fear of ridicule and rejection, I can't imagine wanting to choose being trans. But not having physically transitioned, my body just doesn't feel right. It's not a choice, it's just who I am. Like so many, I've tried to be what others have expected, but that just became impossible. Deep inside, I've always been Carla, but I now except it. And I am very fortunate that my whole family excepts me, I am Carla with my family.😊

 

Lots of love,

Timber Wolf 🐾🐺

[Dora]

I am genderfluid so I did not.

[Ivy]

Welcome Dora

[Abigail Genevieve]

26 minutes ago, Dora said:

I am genderfluid so I did not.

So did you choose to be genderfluid?

[Sally Stone]

Actually, my gender chose me.  I didn't get a say in it.  It's taken me a lifetime to finally come to grips with being who I am, but now, I wouldn't trade my gender for the world.  It has helped make me the person I am today.  I fear that if my gender was different, I would be a different person, and since I like who I am, I have no regrets.   

[Betty K]

7 hours ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

People running around saying they choose their gender are doing a lot of damage.  "I think I will be a boy today" or "this afternoon I will be a girl". These are the people most of the heavy fire against TG folk is directed at, and the rest of us get caught in it.

Abigail, I would urge compassion when speaking about other members of the trans community. I am very active among my local community, I work with younger trans folks, I read a lot about trans folks in general, and I have never met or heard of anyone who claimed to have chosen their gender identity, or who treated it so lightly as you describe. Gender fluidity, like transness in general, remains largely mysterious. Who is to say that genderfluid folks are any less legitimate than the rest of us? I strongly believe that pointing fingers at each other only weakens us all. Not only that, but I think it’s delusional to think the transphobes would leave us alone if only it wasn’t for x members of our community. They hate us all! The only trans folk they are willing to accept are the ones who keep quiet and blend in, ie the ones that pass and are willing to live stealth. As to the rest of us, we’re all in the same boat I’m afraid. I think the best thing we can do therefore is try to get along. We will be much stronger united than fragmented into warring factions.

[Betty K]

2 hours ago, Dora said:

I am genderfluid so I did not.

Just for the record, Dora, I totally support you in your gender and do not think you are part of the problem. 

[Mmindy]

2 hours ago, Dora said:

I am genderfluid so I did not

Welcome to Transgender Pulse Forums @Dora

 

Feel free to jump in on any of the threads sharing your views. Also it would be cool if you dropped into the Introduction thread and tell us a little bit about yourself.

 

Best wishes, stay positive, and motivated,

 

Mindy🌈🐛🏳️‍⚧️🦋

[Ashley0616]

2 hours ago, Dora said:

I am genderfluid so I did not.

Hi Dora! It would be neat to learn your story that is if you want to share it.

[Sally Stone]

3 hours ago, Betty K said:

I would urge compassion when speaking about other members of the trans community.

Betty, thanks so much for that little reminder.  I have personally been the target of some rather nasty vitriol from others in our community for being bigender.  

 

Hugs,

 

Sally

[awkward-yet-sweet]

12 hours ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

People running around saying they choose their gender are doing a lot of damage.  "I think I will be a boy today" or "this afternoon I will be a girl". These are the people most of the heavy fire against TG folk is directed at, and the rest of us get caught in it.

 

4 hours ago, Betty K said:

Abigail, I would urge compassion when speaking about other members of the trans community. I am very active among my local community, I work with younger trans folks, I read a lot about trans folks in general, and I have never met or heard of anyone who claimed to have chosen their gender identity, or who treated it so lightly as you describe. Gender fluidity, like transness in general, remains largely mysterious. Who is to say that genderfluid folks are any less legitimate than the rest of us? I strongly believe that pointing fingers at each other only weakens us all. Not only that, but I think it’s delusional to think the transphobes would leave us alone if only it wasn’t for x members of our community. They hate us all! The only trans folk they are willing to accept are the ones who keep quiet and blend in, ie the ones that pass and are willing to live stealth. As to the rest of us, we’re all in the same boat I’m afraid. I think the best thing we can do therefore is try to get along. We will be much stronger united than fragmented into warring factions.

 

Before I figured out some things about myself, I said I was genderfluid.  I think it can be kind of a catch-all for "I'm not what I was supposed to be at birth, but IDK what I really am."  And I think that's OK.  Other folks may use the term differently, and that's OK too. 

 

I think there's some element of social imitation going on, largely among the under-18 crowd.  Maybe today somebody is a boy, tomorrow a girl.  Is that good or bad?  IDK, although I guess it can be confusing for those nearby.  I just see people who have a feeling that they don't fit with how they've been classified, but have no idea who they are or what they are supposed to express.  Sometimes that changes with time or information (like it did for me), but sometimes it may not. Society with its categories, identification, and roles, tends not to view that kindly....and I believe that's mostly a consequence of excessive government power.

 

However, I disagree with the idea that passing, blending in, and living in stealth is necessarily bad.  Of course, that isn't possible for everybody, since we come at this "trans" thing from different origins and different physical realities/limitations.  In my own (limited) experience, identifying as genderfluid vs. intersex/trans didn't change much in my daily life.  Your experience may be very different. 

 

I didn't choose my gender.  I just...am.   I'm certainly not a girl, but not really a boy either due to certain physical realities that cannot change.  I live mostly in my "boy form" these days, and I'm treated as such for the most part in my relationships, but without the social expectations that go along with maleness.  The experience for me is one of trying to find the best possible choice in a very complicated and flawed world.  Nothing will be a perfect fit, I do the best I can.  Two of my best friends are trans girls, and their experience is similar, albeit with a more definite sense of gender. 

 

Mostly, just be the best "whoever-you-are" that you can be, I guess. 

[Betty K]

7 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

However, I disagree with the idea that passing, blending in, and living in stealth is necessarily bad.

Who said it was bad? It’s just out of reach for many of us.

[Betty K]

1 hour ago, Sally Stone said:

Betty, thanks so much for that little reminder.  I have personally been the target of some rather nasty vitriol from others in our community for being bigender.  

You’re welcome Sally. I think we have all struggled to have our gender identities taken seriously, so I would hope we can all have sympathy for each other in this regard.

[Ivy]

For the first few months after my egg cracked, I would call myself non-binary.  After a bit I just moved on into female.  I do realize that I'm not cis - how can I not?  I know that I'm unlikely to ever "pass" other than at a distance.  

I dress and live as a woman now.  I'm not ashamed of being a trans woman.  But I don't go out of my way to make an issue of it.

[EasyE]

As someone else mentioned above, I am just me ... Biologically, I have the male parts. I grew up a typical boy in a lot of stereotypical ways (sports, bikes, outdoors, played with Hot Wheels and Tonka trucks) but there is something distinctly feminine in me as well -- a "feminine dimension" is how I described it to my wife (which scared the h*** out of her)... that dimension has always been there in some form but has roared to life -- and practically knocked me over -- the past 18-24 months ... 

 

The biggest thing is this strong desire/need to present this feminine dimension outwardly. Through clothing and more recently, in the hopes of having a more feminine body, the beginnings of HRT... 

 

It is very complex and for those who have read my posts, very confusing. Because it runs so counter to everything else in my life and to all that is expected of me in my conservative Christian (and now Catholic) family/friends/community. Did I choose all this? Not all of it, but I am making choices today, and I think that is what has everyone all riled up around me. They think I am choosing a path of sin and disobedience to God, etc. etc. (you have read it all before if you follow me at all)... 

 

 

[Birdie]

39 minutes ago, EasyE said:

They think I am choosing a path of sin and disobedience to God

I had a neighbour give me the disobedience lecture to me once. I just told her I have a uterus just like she does. 

 

My chromosomes might be XY, but I have PMDS so I have ambitious genitalia. She didn't know how to respond to that. How do you act your gender when you're both? 

 

The old chromosome classifications just can't fit everyone. Gender is much more dynamic. 

[Ivy]

1 minute ago, Birdie said:

The old chromosome classifications just can't fit everyone. Gender is much more dynamic. 

Some folks just refuse to accept this.

[Abigail Genevieve]

14 hours ago, Betty K said:

Abigail, I would urge compassion when speaking about other members of the trans community. I am very active among my local community, I work with younger trans folks, I read a lot about trans folks in general, and I have never met or heard of anyone who claimed to have chosen their gender identity, or who treated it so lightly as you describe. Gender fluidity, like transness in general, remains largely mysterious. Who is to say that genderfluid folks are any less legitimate than the rest of us? I strongly believe that pointing fingers at each other only weakens us all. Not only that, but I think it’s delusional to think the transphobes would leave us alone if only it wasn’t for x members of our community. They hate us all! The only trans folk they are willing to accept are the ones who keep quiet and blend in, ie the ones that pass and are willing to live stealth. As to the rest of us, we’re all in the same boat I’m afraid. I think the best thing we can do therefore is try to get along. We will be much stronger united than fragmented into warring factions.

I wrote in a manner that made it sound like I am condemning gender fluidity.  I am not.  I was focused on those who give cause to the uninformed that transgender people are trivial and that changing gender is like choosing a pair of shoes.  I don't know what or if anyone is saying that gives rise to this, but you see it frequently, even in the latest Vatican document. 

 

I suspect some transgender people are giving all transgender a bad name, but I point no fingers.

 

I know nothing about gender fluidity, by the way, having been focused on mtf and intersex all these years.  For all I know I am actually that, switching back and forth as I do in cycles of being one for several months, then being the other for several months until I flip, which, as I have said I seem to have no control over.  I regret having caused harm with my post.

[Sally Stone]

3 hours ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

I don't know what or if anyone is saying that gives rise to this, but you see it frequently, even in the latest Vatican document. 

Abigail, I think this line of thinking comes mostly from the cis community, specifically, those with an anti-trans agenda.  These are the self-proclaimed experts ( who have no idea what it's like to be trans) trying to tell us they have a better understanding of being trans than we do.    

[Abigail Genevieve]

24 minutes ago, Sally Stone said:

Abigail, I think this line of thinking comes mostly from the cis community, specifically, those with an anti-trans agenda.  These are the self-proclaimed experts ( who have no idea what it's like to be trans) trying to tell us they have a better understanding of being trans than we do.    

The mindset seems to be: they are not crazy, we are.

 

Surveys indicate the majority of people are in favor of trans rights.  There is a minority that is influenced by the inner minority, the hard core "transphobes".  I think a lot of people simply need information.  But then they get two streams of information from opposite directions. 

[MaeBe]

4 hours ago, Abigail Genevieve said:

I don't know what or if anyone is saying that gives rise to this, but you see it frequently, even in the latest Vatican document.

What @Sally Stone wrote is what I think as well.

 

The flippancy they ascribe to trans people is to validate their position that trans people are given to whim and swayed by the "trans ideology" that is "poisoning" humanity. Projecting this narrative on trans people "wins them points" in the game of their own making and being loud about it gets others to listen. They get those, who likely don't have a personal stake in transgender rights, to nod their heads up and down to increase the volume of their rhetoric. The passive transphobe does this because they have never needed to comprehend gender as anything as what they've always assumed; the "easy" answer the loud ones project just seems "logical" when there is no comprehension or compassion.

 

Once a person looks past their own ignorance they can come to understand this isn't about what they fear (insert crass statement about what transphobes are actually afraid of). It's just too easy to be ignorant and state "all I've ever known are two genders, boys and girls, who have sex together to make babies" (conflating gender and sex, as usual...) instead of taking just a little bit of time to understand the world is more complex than a simple bible verse.

 

For those people, I have a rib or two they can have for making more women--that's just how they're made--I really want a narrower waist for dress season.

[Ashley0616]

41 minutes ago, MaeBe said:

For those people, I have a rib or two they can have for making more women--that's just how they're made--I really want a narrower waist for dress season.

Heck I would get rid of the left and right lower rib. I would love a narrower waist but I would still need to get rid of my gut. I guess I'll do liposuction and tummy tuck and while they are at they can remove those ribs. 

[Abigail Genevieve]

2 hours ago, MaeBe said:

What @Sally Stone wrote is what I think as well.

 

The flippancy they ascribe to trans people is to validate their position that trans people are given to whim and swayed by the "trans ideology" that is "poisoning" humanity. Projecting this narrative on trans people "wins them points" in the game of their own making and being loud about it gets others to listen. They get those, who likely don't have a personal stake in transgender rights, to nod their heads up and down to increase the volume of their rhetoric. The passive transphobe does this because they have never needed to comprehend gender as anything as what they've always assumed; the "easy" answer the loud ones project just seems "logical" when there is no comprehension or compassion.

 

Once a person looks past their own ignorance they can come to understand this isn't about what they fear (insert crass statement about what transphobes are actually afraid of). It's just too easy to be ignorant and state "all I've ever known are two genders, boys and girls, who have sex together to make babies" (conflating gender and sex, as usual...) instead of taking just a little bit of time to understand the world is more complex than a simple bible verse.

 

For those people, I have a rib or two they can have for making more women--that's just how they're made--I really want a narrower waist for dress season.

I looked through the Focus on the Family material and also the Southern Baptist Convention stuff, both highly influential, both rejecting transgenderism.  I found no hatred but an urge to treat people with love and compassion. I found some logical fallacies in both and nothing convinced me to change my position.  SBC assumes someone who is transgender is not saved and so is not allowed to join their congregations. 

 

I have a certain affection for both.  FotF helped us with some material that helped us raise our kids and on most issues they are fellow travelers.  SBC seeks to conscientiously fight the good fight but I would never join a SBC church for reasons that are irrelevant here.  Not that I could now in good conscience.  I look like a guy? SURPRISE!  Left boot of fellowship.

 

The Nashville Statement is worse.  CBMW.org wrote it and it has been criticized heavily by some trans folk. . https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement#articles  I am saddened at some of who signed the thing. Articles 10 and 13 are of particular interest.  Other things can be found here that trans folk would take exception to. But they do not treat TG as something flippant.

 

 I would not refer to any of these as transphobes.  I am not sure the term is useful in conceptualizing or interacting with those who object to the idea of transgender being something besides sin.  When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail.