10 years FT, Florida wants to switch my ID back to "M"

[Guest AngieT]

I'm heartbroken as I type this, as I face the prospect of having my driver's license forcefully changed from "F" to "M" simply due to state bureaucracy. Actually it may be even worse, and I may not even be able to get another drivers license until I'm post-op.

I started my transition in 2003, when I changed my name and had my Washington State drivers license/SSA record changed to reflect female. Since then I've attended school, established my new identity, worked a multitude of jobs, and lived a very happy and indiscreet existence. My pre-transition marriage has blossomed, my friends and family have adapted and largely embraced the new me, and my new life has been fulfilling beyond my wildest dreams.

Earlier this year my spouse and I relocated to Florida due to work considerations. Things here are working well, however my Washington state license that I've had for 10 years is getting ready to expire. I visited the local DMV to inquire about changing my license back to Florida, where I lived 15 years ago. (pre-transition) The lady at DMV looked up my old drivers license record and confirmed that everything looked pretty good, however discrepancies now existed that prevented my from getting a new license.

1. Producing the original name change court order from WA were fine, and would allow me to change the name on my license.

2. The WA administrative change of the sex designator, from "M" to "F" would NOT be recognized or allowed. Florida requires that one be post-op, and failing that, I required a court order in order to make that change.

3. I require a Florida license in order to establish residency and petition the local court for any change document, meaning, at best, I need to get a license with my female name and "M" under sex.

4. Since my (15 year old) driving record says male, Florida can only issue a driver's license saying male, HOWEVER my Social Security records were modified many years ago to reflect female, so due to RealID laws, I need to resolve the difference before I would be able to receive any new license. Obviously the only way that can happen is if SSA were to revert my SSA record back to "M" as well. My understanding, however, is that the M to F change on SSA is a one time, one way deal. It's not going to happen, and would only mess me up even more when I seek work.

Other options:

1. Renew my WA driver's license online. Problem: WA will only mail a driver's license to a verified WA state residential address, and from my conversation with WA DMV, they won't even mail it to a PO box. FAIL, since I no longer have a WA address to have it sent to.

2. Fly back to WA, rent a house/find roommates for a few weeks, and renew my license there. A pretty costly alternative when you consider airfare, housing costs, food, transportation, etc. Additionally, such option would separate my spouse and I for several weeks. Not my favorite choice, especially around the holidays.

3. I was going to offer an old friend in Seattle $250 to use her address and have her forward the license to me. Unfortunately she's moved, and I have no way to reach her.

I'm not sure if others have ideas, but these are the only options I can think of.

********

Needless to say, this fiasco has been devastating to me. At stake is my very identity, and the documentation that dictates my legal gender. Unless I can transcend this problem, 10 years of stealth living will be decimated, and replaced by bureaucratic rulings that trivialize my self identity. I see this as an attempt to force me to de-transition, and despite my normally optimistic demeanor, I'd truly rather die than to go back to being identified as a guy. (No disrespect intended to any FtM who may read this)

[Guest AngieT]

Hi Megan!

Unlike WA, FL requires that one complete SRS before changing the sex designator. There is no administrative process like in WA, you have to wait for SRS, then file court papers with SRS documentation and hope that they'll approve it. Besides that, you have to be a resident in order to file the paperwork, with the residency requirement being: FL identification. It's a vicious and seemingly never ending cycle.

If this was my first FL license things would, hypothetically, be different, since I wouldn't have an established driving record here to modify. I could have surrendered my WA license, the info in it would have matched the information with SSA, a new drivers license file would be established, and I'd be set. Unfortunately the record is tied to my SSN, so when they pull up my SSN my old info comes up. Once the information was input years ago, it can't be purged, only modified, and modification needs a court order. Frustrating to say the least.

My experience has been that FL is far from being trans friendly. While I currently live an uneventful "stealth" life now, some early transition experiences here were outright discriminatory.

In 2004 I ended up in a local hospital emergency room, and when my TS past was discovered by the ER doctor, he refused to treat me! The most he would do was shoot me up with pain meds and transfer me to intensive care where I had to wait until another doctor showed up and I could be sent to surgery. Even worse, because I had been treated in the hospital chain before and identified by my SSN, the hospital attempted to put an wrist ID on my with my former male name and "M". They then tried to coax me to sign all of the authorizations and hospital paperwork in my old name. This is despite me presenting them a legal WA license showing my new name and "F." I eventually called for the administrator and told her "If I need to sign the paperwork in that name in order for you to render life saving assistance, I'll do so, but keep in mind that "he" isn't insured, and I really doubt that my insurance is going to pay you ANYTHING if you choose to prepare all paperwork in that name." 5 minutes later she reappeared with a new hospital ID bracelet with the correct info, as well as re-done paperwork with the correct information. I really hate the healthcare around here.

[Guest Melissa~]

I would opt for renewing the Washington licence, and not giving Florida a single extra dime of admin fees. That's my snarky show-me side. Here in MO one needs to be post op too for the gender marker change. Fortunately every other process is fairly smooth. There are the backwards states that just plain ban changing the gender marker, how do they deal with the full faith and credit clause.

Last and important tid-bit... Is your birth certificate corrected? If it is I think there could be a case of handling all that in Florida's court, using that as a primary ID, it's obtuse, but that's the way they want to be.

[Guest Lizzie McTrucker]

My GT told me there was a new law in FL that states if you have a note from your hormone doctor that you're in transition from male to female and are currently on hormones and living as a woman that they can change your gender marker.

[Guest *Brooke*]

Not sure if this is a good idea, or even feasible, but perhaps file for a new SSN. Not sure if that would work, but if you got a new Social Security Number, it would surely be different from what they have on file for you, and you could file as though you are new to the state. Just an idea I had.

[Guest DanD]

funny theyd recommend getting it renewed for an address you do not live at which is illegal. When you move to a new residence youre required to update that within 15 days usually.

I dont know who you talked to at the DOT..but go to your state rep's office, they often deal with DOT issues, anything to do with the state. they can internvene on state issues.

if worse comes to worse, you could have the state rep in washington, and the state rep in florida, agree to renew your license and send it to the state rep's office, and have them forward the card to you when it comes back

If state rep is too wimpy to bother to help ( they can if they want to; but sometimes people can be funny you know).

another option is to go get a court order saying gender designation change on it, somewhere. you should have done that when you did the name change, but people seldom do that one thing. Ive always asked why not, but i dont mean to hit you with a shoulda woulda coulda thing, when you dont have a time machine.

as a sort of reminder to people about name change petitions...

write out the court order like this:

ORDER OF COURT

AND NOW this _(number)_day of _(month)_, (year),

it is hereby ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that upon presentation of the Petition of (old name) for change of name and gender designation, the person formerly known as (old name) shall hereafter be known as (new name) and (new name's) gender designation shall be (male/female).

almost the same thing as a plain jane name change, but just that little extra sure helps.

I would say, go ahead and file it in motions court at the county courthouse, like you did for the name change. ask them if they canget you a hearing date quickly. I got my court order done in about 21 days.

Another option is..let it expire, go in with your new birth certificate and your new SS card, thats all you need to apply for a new license. the problem with that is they will likely have a spot on there for previous names or licenses, and youd have to put those in there. which is good, because it connects the two, but im not sure it will actually change the outcome much.

whenever i call the DOT here for info, i tend to get at least as many different answers as the different people that answer the phone, so i dont rely on their word very much.

You could suffer with the M on it,a nd chances are someone will think its an error and fix it to an F anyway..

or you could get the thing with the M on it..(leave it blank on the gender part) and see what happens.

they mix up genders on non-trans people too sometimes.

when you get a license, it always says, check for erors, and let us know of any corrections.. they spell names wrong and get them backwards and all sort of things, and its no big deal to correct it.

my first try would be the state rep office. second thing would be the court order. IMO.

if all your federal IDs werre changed over, i dont see why theyd have a leg to stand on, regarding the gender thing anyway. i had a freind who had the SS office call the IRS to say hey, we accept this ID for this person so you have to too, and they stopped hassling her about the name thing. jeesh wasnt like she was pretending to be someone who she wasnt, and get out of paying taxes, quite the opposite. Thats why that WPATH thing is so useless.. need to get the govt inon the same game plan.. when youre required to be FT as the opposite sex, you cant do it without the right ID and gender marker.

that mixed up stuff is why the RLT always seemed so bogus to me.

they want you to have time to live in the role of the new gender,(male or female) to see how welll you adapt.. -NOT see how well you adapt fo being a gender-mix. obviously nobody would do so well as a gender-mix..unless youre just very lucky somehow.

[Guest AngieT]

Thank you all for the feedback. Though it may seem kind of trivial, at stake is my real life identity and right to exist as the woman that I've been for almost a decade.

I'm screwed in Florida. I can't deal with having my legal ID changed to say "M." I'd sooner choose to end it all than to revert to that.

My only hope is to go back to WA, but that requires that I spend thousands to establish a new home in WA, and a continent apart from my spouse of almost 20 years. It can happen if I spend all that we've put aside for the holidays, but I feel that "cancelling Christmas" to get one letter on my ID changed to be a very selfish choice.

Transition can be cruel, and to date I've been blessed with a solid new identity, "passability," and a family and a spouse that have remained absolutely supportive. Now, however, I'm being forced to consider giving up my new life, something that has driven me to the deepest depression that I've ever faced.

I need time to think. This is just overwhelming me.

[Guest Robin Winter]

It doesn't seem trivial at all. I would feel the same way you do

[KathrynJulia]

One thing that you may have failed to consider is the ACLU. You are licensed as female in Washington State. All of your ID states that your gender is female. You might become a test case and the ACLU might be able to help without a huge expense on your part.

Give them a call. See if they can help you fight this. KathrynJulia

[Paula ult]

You might Google the name Victoria Michaels, she serves as an advocate for the LGBT Community in Florida, she is pre op and was able to get her marker changed, though she had some hassles, maybe she could point you in the right direction.

As backwards as Ohio is by not allowing birth certificate marker change, even after surgery, getting the drivers license marker changed while pre op was fairly easy.

Hoping you can find a resolution to your problem.

Paula

[Ravin]

I'm going to suggest you find a lgbt friendly family/estate law attorney to help you get the needed court order.

[Guest AngieT]

The court won't issue the order until SRS is complete, so I'm kind of screwed in that regard. The other problem is that in order to file a court case in Florida I have to be a Florida resident, which would require me to change my ID, thus starting me back at square one. On top of that the Florida Apellate court has ruled that sex is determined by classification at birth. i.e. they go by what's on your birth certificate. I was born in Texas, and my birth certificate is non-changeable due to the court ruling in Littleton v. Prange. Ugh!

[Guest AngieT]

Another consideration that I didn't mention: I was married in this state 19 years ago, long before starting transition. Due to legal rulings, my marriage is still considered to be valid since Florida still considers me to be male. If they change my sex designation, then, theoretically we would be in an illegal same sex marriage. In such a situation I could see our marriage being declared void. NOT something I want to do.

Moving back to WA would still be the easiest solution, however my spouse has a decent paying job here that provides us with financial security. The cost of relocating again, as well as having to find new employment just makes that proposition really risky.

[Drea]

I will agree with DanD, maintaining a driver's license at a residence that isn't your is illegeal as well as not getting a driver's license in the state of your new residence.

I am also curious how you got SSA to update your records? Last I knew the feds still required SRS to get that changed and if it is different now, certainly that was the requirement 10 years ago.

Now, you didn't say explicitly, but since you mentioned using your certificate of name change, I am guessing the problem cropped up as that the only qualifying primary ID you had was your birth certificate with old name gender marker and court name change document. Sufficient but of course identifies your past and the gender marker discrepencies.

Driver's license isn't a primary ID and as you discovered an "administrative change" has no real stubstance.

The one form of primary identification, one that is accepted in every circumstance I've encountered, is a US passport. One does not need to have SRS to get the marker changed on that. It can be obtained legally with the desired gender marker and serves as the primary ID. With passport in hand you can go into the DMV and present that and no need to deal with the birth certificate and name change court order.

Lastly I would say the designator isn't a big deal if one has to be stuck with the wrong indicator temporarily. People hardly notice such things and it is more one's own insecurity than a practical problem. While I recognize the potential it may cause as far as RealID, it seems your concern is mostly an emotional one when you say "I can't deal with having my legal ID changed to say 'M.' I'd sooner choose to end it all than to revert to that". And as to this statement:

The other problem is that in order to file a court case in Florida I have to be a Florida resident, which would require me to change my ID, thus starting me back at square one.

Square one? Is all this reduced to having F or M on a driver's license?

[Guest AngieT]

SSA regulations 10 years ago were not as strict or defined as they are now, and many of us were able to change the sex marker when we had our name changes done, depending on the agent with whom we worked.

I have:

WA Driver's license: Name changed and sex designator "F"

SSA - Name changed and sex designator "F"

TX Birth Certificate: Name changed, but sex designator "M" due to the Littleton ruling

Passport: Name changed, but with "M" sex designator

Old FL Driving records: Old name and "M"

WA court ordered name change

* not the ideal mixture of documents, but having a valid driver's license and matching SSA records allows me to easily find work and live as a woman without issue.

If I were to go back to the Florida DMV with my existing documentation, they CANNOT re-issue a FL license because, due to RealID, a discrepancy exists between FL DMV records which say "M" and SSA records which say "F."

To resolve that the first thing I'd need to do is modify my SSA records to match the DMV records. In essence, get SSA to waive their "one change only" rule and switch my SSA records back to reflecting "M." This *may* be doable, but I'd dare say that such a task would be monumental. *IF* I were to pull that off with SSA, then Florida will re-issue a license with my new name (based on the court ordered name change) and "M" because that's what the DMV computer says that I am based on their records.

The net change for all my efforts to this point: Driver's license sex designator changed back to "M" and SSA records permanently changed back to "M." NO FEMALE IDENTIFYING DOCUMENTS LEFT.

FL driver's license: Name changed and sex designator "M"

SSA - Name changed and sex designator "M"

TX Birth Certificate: Name changed, but sex designator "M" due to the Littleton ruling

Passport: Name changed, but with "M" sex designator

Old FL Driving records: Old name and "M"

* At this point all I would revert to being a legal "M" in every sense. After living and working full time as a woman for close to a decade, I'd legally be required to use the men's room again, and I'm sure finding work looking like a woman, with a woman's name, and "M" on my ID will make finding employment a fun project.

How do I move forward again? Well the next step would be to get a court order changing my gender. What's required?

1) Legal ID - ok

1) complete SRS - it's on my list of stuff to do once I shed a few more lbs. Sorry to all the slim girls out there, but some of us are "fatties."

3) update my TX birth certificate - can't be updated due to Littleton v Prange ruling in Texas

When I manage to lose the lbs, wade through the SRS wait list and complete surgery, then I need to fight with the state of Texas to try to modify my birth certificate. I can hope to accomplish on my own what a multitude of professional attorneys have been unable to accomplish in the 13 years since the Littleton ruling or in the ongoing Araguz lawsuits, but I still think that my chances of that are about near hopeless.

*IF* I were to weather all of the above, then I could petition the court to order a gender change and subsequently update my license and reclaim my life. There are no guarantees, especially when Florida rulings have stated that a person's sex is determined by their classification at birth. One huge pitfall to this, though, is that if things were to get this far and my gender officially changed, I would then be in a then illegal same sex marriage. My marriage (19 years as of our anniversary tomorrow) would then be nullified.

Regardless, the potential trip that I'll have to endure will be long, frustrating, and EXTREMELY epensive.

The thing that people don't understand is that getting a new license and changing the information on a license are NOT the same thing, and that the waters are muddied even further when the process involves moving from state to state. If this were my first license in FL, they would use the name and sex designator from my current ID, confirm it with SSA, and I'd be set. If I were simply making changes to my existing license they would change the name, but the sex marker would remain until SRS were completed. In my case they can't issue anything because a discrepancy exists between their records and SSA, and beyone that all they'll change is name, not sex. The sex designator change is a whole new battle in itself.

Yes Drea, this IS over a "M" or "F" on my driver's license. Having an ID that says "M" may be acceptable to some, but for me it's NOT an option, especially when the length of time rquired to change it may very well stretch into a near infinite battle. After establishing my new life and truly living happily for the past decade, forcing me back into the men's restroom and and taking employment under the men's dress code that requires a suit and tie IS a very big deal. We're literally talking about a forced detransition, and I would absolutely pull out my S&W and exit life as the woman I am before I ever comply and become "him" again.

[Guest Melissa~]

TX has been pursuaded to make exceptions, but it's rare apparrently.

Andrea James has a modest amount of data compiled here:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/name/texas.html

The birth certificate is the root of many problems. At the decade point are you certain you want SRS? Tracking down an appropriate TX lawyer may be more important than pursueing SRS when it comes to documents, be sure their oppinion wouldeven require SRS. Once things are in court all kinds of things outside of official regulation can proceeed. That applies to just forcing things in Florida too,.

[Guest LizMarie]

I have not met this woman specifically but my therapist tells me there is a transgender woman lawyer in Houston who knows the right judges and the right strings to pull to get most any change through the system. If you wish, I can contact my therapist and get her name.

[Guest AngieT]

Thanks Liz.

I'm pretty sure that the attorney she was referring to was Phyllis Randolph Frye from Houston. I contacted her years ago, but haven't pursued it since. Intrestingly, a google serach for her indicates that she was appointed as a Houston municipal judge in 2010, so things may have changed since then. I'll probably try to email her law office again to get up to date information. Thank you for the reminder!

Angie

[Drea]

Some of the subsequent replies have focused on the birth certification which seems a battle regardless. I will note that the littleton case is pretty irrelevent anyway since you hadn't had SRS.

I will go back to asking why not change the passport? Why not get that gender marker updated? You can even get passport card too which becomes an easy ID to use rather than carry the full booklet. Unlike any identification you have now, including drivers liccense, the passport is a primary form of identiication. With the passport and passport card there becomes no need to ever show driver's license except traffic stop or other driving related item. That would certainly allieviate concerns. Perhaps the cost of getting doctor/therapist to write the appropriate letter to the passport agency? Seems much less expensive than lawyers.

As far as employment and SSA, SSA stopped doing gender matching sometime earlier in the year if I recall so a mismatch or any need to change SSA is a non-issue so all this discussion of needing to change that seems wholly irrelevent.

You do have a point about the existing driver's record. Since you had previous license with the state I could see the headache getting them to change for your license. Having the passport certainly couldn't hurt and as federal and primary identification it seems to me likely to have a chance to force the state to adjust if anything.

I have also never heard of an existing marriage suddenly being voided because one's partner's genders now match if it was a regular conventional marriage to begin with without some legal challenge such as disput over inheritance or like in the littleton case. We have at least one member here who lives in florida, got married pre-transition before getting marker changed. Again concern over this seems like nothing to worry about.

Yes Drea, this IS over a "M" or "F" on my driver's license. Having an ID that says "M" may be acceptable to some, but for me it's NOT an option

My error. I had expected that since you been full time/"transitioned" for 10 years you were long past the need for such a little validation and typical insecurities over such that those new in the process experience. I apologize for not making this assumption.

After establishing my new life and truly living happily for the past decade, forcing me back into the men's restroom and and taking employment under the men's dress code that requires a suit and tie IS a very big deal. We're literally talking about a forced detransition, and I would absolutely pull out my S&W and exit life as the woman I am before I ever comply and become "him" again.

Again I don't understand how this forces that. Unless one intends to act like Colleen Francis it seems irrelevent and as well as at the workplace,nor de-transition. Then again I seen people de-transition for plenty of reasons that never made any sense.

[~Nova~]

I'm heartbroken as I type this, as I face the prospect of having my driver's license forcefully changed from "F" to "M" simply due to state bureaucracy. Actually it may be even worse, and I may not even be able to get another drivers license until I'm post-op.

I started my transition in 2003, when I changed my name and had my Washington State drivers license/SSA record changed to reflect female. Since then I've attended school, established my new identity, worked a multitude of jobs, and lived a very happy and indiscreet existence. My pre-transition marriage has blossomed, my friends and family have adapted and largely embraced the new me, and my new life has been fulfilling beyond my wildest dreams.

Earlier this year my spouse and I relocated to Florida due to work considerations. Things here are working well, however my Washington state license that I've had for 10 years is getting ready to expire. I visited the local DMV to inquire about changing my license back to Florida, where I lived 15 years ago. (pre-transition) The lady at DMV looked up my old drivers license record and confirmed that everything looked pretty good, however discrepancies now existed that prevented my from getting a new license.

1. Producing the original name change court order from WA were fine, and would allow me to change the name on my license.

2. The WA administrative change of the sex designator, from "M" to "F" would NOT be recognized or allowed. Florida requires that one be post-op, and failing that, I required a court order in order to make that change.

3. I require a Florida license in order to establish residency and petition the local court for any change document, meaning, at best, I need to get a license with my female name and "M" under sex.

4. Since my (15 year old) driving record says male, Florida can only issue a driver's license saying male, HOWEVER my Social Security records were modified many years ago to reflect female, so due to RealID laws, I need to resolve the difference before I would be able to receive any new license. Obviously the only way that can happen is if SSA were to revert my SSA record back to "M" as well. My understanding, however, is that the M to F change on SSA is a one time, one way deal. It's not going to happen, and would only mess me up even more when I seek work.

Other options:

1. Renew my WA driver's license online. Problem: WA will only mail a driver's license to a verified WA state residential address, and from my conversation with WA DMV, they won't even mail it to a PO box. FAIL, since I no longer have a WA address to have it sent to.

2. Fly back to WA, rent a house/find roommates for a few weeks, and renew my license there. A pretty costly alternative when you consider airfare, housing costs, food, transportation, etc. Additionally, such option would separate my spouse and I for several weeks. Not my favorite choice, especially around the holidays.

3. I was going to offer an old friend in Seattle $250 to use her address and have her forward the license to me. Unfortunately she's moved, and I have no way to reach her.

I'm not sure if others have ideas, but these are the only options I can think of.

********

Needless to say, this fiasco has been devastating to me. At stake is my very identity, and the documentation that dictates my legal gender. Unless I can transcend this problem, 10 years of stealth living will be decimated, and replaced by bureaucratic rulings that trivialize my self identity. I see this as an attempt to force me to de-transition, and despite my normally optimistic demeanor, I'd truly rather die than to go back to being identified as a guy. (No disrespect intended to any FtM who may read this)

I'm sorry, but this simply is NOT true. All that is required to change your gender on your DL in Fl is a letter from our physician stating you are on hormones and are transitioning. Their are a few things that must be on the letter. I searched but could not find them. If I can find my letter, I'll post it.

[Drea]

Thank you for jumping in Nova as your first hand experience only adds to the number of other things that really shouldn't be a concern.

I'm sorry, but this simply is NOT true. All that is required to change your gender on your DL in Fl is a letter from [y]our physician stating you are on hormones and are transitioning.

Similar for getting it changed on passport. Not a mjor hurdle.

[Guest AngieT]

I sincerely apologize if I posted any "untrue" or incorrect information in my prior posts. I'm just going off of what the person at the local DMV office told me. A search of online sources seem to support your assertion, however the DMV was pretty adamant about my circumstances being different due to transferring my license from another state. I'm not sure what other source I should have based my concerns on, but the agency controlling the entire process seemed, to me, to be the best source of "reliable" information. Maybe I was wrong. I truly hope that I was wrong.

All things considered, I really should consult an attorney, but setting up an attorney consultation, getting clarification, possibly making an appointment with a local therapist for a clearance letter, getting an appointment with a Florida doctor for a letter to change the designation, then getting DMV to fix it all before my WA license expires in a few weeks is a pretty big and cost prohibitive task that I can't currently afford. An update of my passport would also seem to be in order, but that'll probably have to wait until all of this is settled and I have a bit more time and money to throw at it.

I'll admit to a certain degree of insecurity when dealing with this, but the potential negative implications of things not working out right scare the hell out of me. I don't trust this state, and I don't trust the government bureaucracy that one needs to navigate to get seemingly easy changes enacted. In a place where I've had ER doctors refuse to treat me due to my gender status, I should know to trust no one.

It's really funny how one's outlook on life can change in a rather short period of time. Less than a month ago I lived an extremely happy life. I have a supportive spouse who has weathered transition by my side, parents that I truly believe now accept me as their daughter, supportive siblings who call me sister, and a social network of friends who have never questioned my trans past. I accept that some neighbors view me as a lesbian, but they're respectful and we co-exist peacefully. Almost all traces of the old me are gone, purged and replaced with my new identity. I've built and established new education and employment histories, and have breezed through FBI background checks as required by various governmental regulatory agencies. Most of all I learned to love myself, and even though I may not be a beautiful woman, I was a happy woman who woke up every day with a smile on her face and happy for the new lease on life I was able to build.

Last night, for the first time in years, I cried myself to sleep, afraid that all that I built was about to be torn away from me. Some may feel that a simple "M" on a driver's license is a trivial thing, but that small marker, to me, is a sort of validation of my identity. For those that have transitioned, I'm sure that you remember the day your ID was amended. For me it was amongst the most important and joyful days of my life. What I face is a reversal of that. To have that feeling of happiness wantonly revoked with no valid justification, and probably influenced solely by personal bias and intolerance. It saddens me that people like that exist in our world, but it really become depressing when I see people within our own community imply that it's rather trivial and that I'm over reacting. Like SRS, it's important to some and not for others, but it doesn't make ones point or reason for wanting it any less valid. I exist years without therapy and live happy. I return to the TS community and within a couple dozen posts I enter a deep depression. I really don't know what else to do.

Ultimately I need to navigate the slippery slope before me. Considering time restraints and finances, renewing my WA driver's license to buy myself more time may be my only viable solution. I'll always remain a Washingtonian at heart, I will eventually retun there, and maybe keeping my legal residence there and "visiting" out of state for extended periods of time would be a temporary solution. Only time will tell.

Anyway, thank you all for your support, input and suggestions. Though what was said may not always have be what I was hoping for, I do truly appreciate it. My heartfelt thanks go out to all of you.

Angie

[Guest Paradox]

I saw Phyllis a few month ago for an opinion on my medically induced gender situation and family law. During my visit she told me of her many successes at name and gender identifier changes. She can't guarantee it, but she is confident in her ability to get most done.

[Ravin]

If I was you, I'd at this point print out the supporting documentation you found. Do you have an old therapist's letter used in WA? Request a letter from the doctor who currently prescribes your HRT. The Equality Arizona GLBT legal handbook cites current policy (went into effect 2011). Use the citations and look up the actual policy on the state's government website (a public library or law library can probably help if you can't find it), and print that out. Take the whole thing in to the DMV first thing in the morning. If you are again stonewalled, with proof of gender change in another state and/or a letter from your prescribing physician, ask to see a supervisor. Go up the chain until someone caves or you are told you must appeal to a court or administrative hearing process, and then get details of what court/appeal, preferably in writing. Do not cave yourself; take morale support with you if you need to.

Take all that to an attorney. A one time consult may not cost all that much--certainly less than moving back to WA.

As a back up plan, I would also start making plans for how to arrange your life for not driving, in case your license does expire.

[~Nova~]

I can't find my letter. However, all you need todo is ask for a supervisor in the DL dept and they will give you adopt of the things you need on the letter. Any physician with a fl license can write it. Take it, your other documentation and they will issue a license.

You don't need a lawyer and 50 doc visits. One doc, done!