Pregnant Transman: Does It Help Or Hurt Us?

[Guest GoldenKirbichu]

I agree with Wolfgang, especially about this sort of exposure. It's certainly better than some psycho.

Yeah, I thought we needed hysterectomies anyway... Ah well. Weird.

Society is ready for whatever society wants itself to be ready for.

[Guest raydub]

Yeah, I thought we needed hysterectomies anyway... Ah well. Weird.

i think this depends on the state. i know in Georgia as long as you have some form of surgery and the surgeon writes a letter stating that you have had surgery in an effort to affirm your gender then you can change your gender marker.

Society is ready for whatever society wants itself to be ready for.

quoted for truth. sad part is..society is so finiky that we never really know what its "ready for" until we put it out there and see if it bites..ya know?

I've been avoiding posting in this thread.. but ... what the heh.

I have a lot of mixed emotions about the whole ordeal. I feel like Thomas and his wife are completely entitled to do whatever they want with their lives. And as far as the safety of the child is concerned.. being a person of faith, that child belongs to God and He will take care of the child as He sees fit. Who is to say how that SHOULD or SHOULDNT play out but Him. This ideology doesnt exactly work for the athiest and agnostic but Im sure they've formed their own opinions already.

I have to agree with the view that exposure -bringing the transgender life/idea/expression into the lives of SO many is good however it had to have come. Im not sure "society" would have given a rats tail about the stealth transgender just living their life, enough for there to be an Oprah special or news stories that would get so much attention and so quickly strike up the conversation of our existence! *shrug*

love you all.. especially all your differing opinions.. gives me so much to think about.

- Ray

[Guest Huff]

Ah, with the effects of testosterone. I mostly don't care, only if it is proven that the effects can cause horrible birth defects (i.e. causing death or extreme mental retardation). But I doubt that it does.

Adrian

I'm sure his doc must have taken him off T for the pregnancy... Testosterone can cause serious birth defects on a fetus, especially if it's a female fetus. A female baby exposed to T prenatally will have genitalia that are, to a small or large degree, masculinized. The baby could end up either a small, sterile XX male or be 'hermaphroditic' in appearance. Not to say that being intersexed is the most awful thing that could ever happen to a person, but intentionally inflicting the condition on a baby doesn't seem like the kind of thing the medical profession would go for.

[Guest J-Walker]

I don't think the T issue is really an issue at all. He's been off it for two years and even though it has had effects on his genitalia it shouldn't have any effect on the baby inside after all this time. The only thing I could think of that might be a problem is that the baby won't receive enough feminizing hormone but this should not be a big concern. The extra X chromosome in women only sort of reconfirms their feminitity. It's the Y chromosome that causes such drastic differences in the male and female body (Why else would we all have X chromosomes?).

As for how it effects the transgender community, I actually think it helps us. It gets us noticed and is giving the message that gender isn't black and white. The attention it has been receiving has been positive for the most part. Everyone at my school kind of treats it as no big deal, and although one of my peers commented that "he was born a woman so it doesn't count", he at least acknowledged that he was currently a man, even with a uterus.

[Guest Rika-chama]

Somehow this topic is ALWAYS brought up in school. I'm always hearing comments like "oh so he's not a real man then?" or "if he still has a vagina he's a woman" and of course confusion and people thinking we're not men at all because of this. I have no problem with him having a baby but he's just loving the attention he's getting. Besides the whole point of being a man is to not get pregnant. The idea of getting pregnant disgusts me. Being trans means having to sacrifice something and that includes reproduction. I feel adoption would have been a better, and wiser choice for them.

[Guest savagedm]

Honestly, this may just be my upbringing and geographic heritage talking (southern california), but if he wants to have himself a baby, then go for it! Who are we to really judge him and determine as a group if him doing what he truly feels is right for him is good for the TS community as a whole? Is it not these stereotypes and prejudices that we are trying to break free from? I personally respect his entire family greatly for what they are doing. My sister happens to have worked in Bend for a good portion of her nursing career and knows all of the people he is seeing up there. They are some of the best doctors up there and she is honestly shocked anyone in that city would turn them away. But back to the topic, yeah I think we should just let them be happy because their happiness does not adversely affect any of us.

~Brooke

[Guest Ryan]

I have kind of mixed feelings on this topic. On the one hand, I strongly believe that Beatie has the right to do what he wishes with regards to his own body, and if he's capable of and willing to have a child, he should by all means go for it. Also, I feel that this is something that, in the long run, can help liberate us from such a rigid, polarized gender system and help people recognize expressions of gender and sex in all their diverse forms. On the other hand, I see where this can hurt us as well, at least in the short term. I've been following a debate about this issue on a social anxiety support forum, so most of the people there have little to no knowledge of trans issues, and there has been a lot of "Well, he's not a real man if he still has a uterus", "It's a monster and it shouldn't raise a child", "You can't be a man if you have XX chromosomes", and, well, you get the idea. All of these comments are very hurtful to the whole trans community, and they were painful for me to read and to rewrite here. However, the people who are making these remarks had these feelings even before hearing of Beatie's pregnancy. The difference was that nobody really talked about them, questioned them, or even thought about them. So maybe this controversy, even if it doesn't improve everyone's opinions of trans people right away, may be doing some good by simply bringing people's fears and prejudices out into the open so that they can be addressed and discussed.

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever with him being pregnant, but I wish he hadn't made such a huge deal out of his pregnancy. Going on Oprah and writing a book makes it feel like he's selling himself, his family, and the whole trans community short by sensationalizing issues that really ought to be addressed more carefully.

[Guest J-Walker]

Somehow this topic is ALWAYS brought up in school. I'm always hearing comments like "oh so he's not a real man then?" or "if he still has a vagina he's a woman" and of course confusion and people thinking we're not men at all because of this. I have no problem with him having a baby but he's just loving the attention he's getting. Besides the whole point of being a man is to not get pregnant. The idea of getting pregnant disgusts me. Being trans means having to sacrifice something and that includes reproduction. I feel adoption would have been a better, and wiser choice for them.

Yeah, I'm actually surprised by everyone at my school. Then again we're all really isolated from everything so they hardly know what it means to transition. And though I personally agree with you and would never want to actually give birth to a child, he still has the right to do what he wants. Like a lot of these posters are saying, this is the same situation we're in (The breaking the social norm part, not the having babies part). I doubt his single actions will have a negative impact on the entire community. It's about time we started getting some recognition that wasn't hateful anyway, though this is a little closer to tabloid than I would have liked to see.

[Guest negeva]

You said what I meant, but much more eloquently. We can't blame him for the prejudice of others.

Adrian

WONDERFUL! thats exactly what i think

its bizarre that we're judging someone elses choices when surely thats all other people do that we dont want???

[Guest Keiichi-kun]

Yeah, I'm actually surprised by everyone at my school. Then again we're all really isolated from everything so they hardly know what it means to transition. And though I personally agree with you and would never want to actually give birth to a child, he still has the right to do what he wants. Like a lot of these posters are saying, this is the same situation we're in (The breaking the social norm part, not the having babies part). I doubt his single actions will have a negative impact on the entire community. It's about time we started getting some recognition that wasn't hateful anyway, though this is a little closer to tabloid than I would have liked to see.

I agree he has every right to get pregnant, it's his body and his choice. It's not so much the pregnancy that bothers me as it is the publicity he gets for it.

Going on Oprah and writing a book makes it feel like he's selling himself, his family, and the whole trans community short by sensationalizing issues that really ought to be addressed more carefully.

100% agreed.

[Guest Ryles_D]

Plus, this will hurt a FtM's credibility quite a bit. "You sure you want to be a man? You positive? I dunno, you might want to get pregnat and have a child...perhaps we should leave the womb and ovaries and estrogen in..for just in case." Or, "FtMs aren't real; they're just women who want to say they're pregnat men and get attention that way."

In fact, Thomas Beatie being on Oprah and Fox News and Bill O'Reilly has upset my family very much. I've had to listen to their snarling comments for almost a week. I finally snapped and chewed my mother's head off, but I would prefer things just go unnoticed rather than make a big show. *shrug*

Yeah, someday we'll be like germany and you need medical reasons to get the blasted things out. I think that's the biggest problem that girls have with getting them out. "What if you wanna have a parasite ruin your figure for 9 months and then mentally and financially drain you for 18 years". Oh, yeah, high on my list of things to do. If I want a kid I'll adopt, thanks. >_< And I'll adopt a teenager or someone old enough that I don't actually have to raise them, just give them money and deal with the "you're ruining my life!" stage so I never want to have kids.

My parents and school haven't heard of that. Hasn't been on Oprah or anything. Thank you, assorted deities. If mom heard about that she wouldn't let me hear the end of that. Like she hasn't got enough reasons why I shouldn't transition. Why did he go public like that? Jeez. If I did decide to get pregnant after, I wouldn't tell the world. I'd have enough trouble as is and would be seriously mad at whoever made a big fuss over it. Actaully, I'd just be bad. I couldn't be a single parent because every other minute I'd glance down at my belly or feel some effect and take a butter knife and try to start stabbing.

[Guest KellyGirl]

look I read it and I didn't think entirely too much into it...I feel that it is bad publicity, but the outraged cries of people saying he should of adopted becuase it hurts the trans community is ludicrous. sure maybe it isn't "normal" and maybe, just maybe he is abusing this "fame" a little. but just becuase it gives some bad publicity doesn't mean that he can just put his life on hold. genetic children are something that mankind inherently desires. adoption is a good cause but....people want to reproduce and raise their own biological children. it's human nature.. and the idea that people are mad at this guy for getting pregnant (albeit it does makes sense) seems to say that we as a community need to rise together as one and avoid anything that could besmirch our name, and if you aren't with us you're against us. basically what I'm trying to say is this is not the norm and people should, but probably won't understand this is not meant to be the norm. but it should be us who educates the masses if this is really an issue. not say that this man is selfish for what he has done.

[Guest Wolfgang E. Beilschmidt]

I'm always hearing comments like "oh so he's not a real man then?" or "if he still has a vagina he's a woman" and of course confusion and people thinking we're not men at all because of this.

I've been going around to various blogs and trying to educate people for a couple of years now. These same types of comments were common long before the Beatie case surfaced. One thing we need to face is that school science and health classes across the country (and around the world, no doubt) are teaching children that sex differentiation is a simple matter of XX=female and XY=male, and that genitals are the primary means by which the two are identified.

So, that’s the world view that our skeptics and opponents are coming from, and it’s impossible to discuss transsexualism within that paradigm. We all know that a more nuanced understanding of sex differentiation, and the occasional lack of it, is essential to any such discussion. Chromosomes, SRY gene, possibly other genes we’re not yet aware of, hormones and other aspects of the endocrinological profile, secondary sex characteristics, brain structure, etc. are all indicators of sex. Then, of course, we have the one in 2,000 babies born with immediately recognizable intersexed genitalia.

When I first started discussing my own transsexualism, I, like many others in the past, tried to formulate my arguments within other people’s worldview--within the context of male and female. “Man trapped in a female body,” etc. Lately, I’ve been attempting to educate people on the complexities of sex differentiation and describe us all as “intersexed” or “neurologically intersexed.” I once convinced a skeptic by pointing out that my male-wired brain was ill-suited to the female hormonal balance produced by my ovaries. I knew this person was “getting it” when she compared it to PMS--That was exactly the way I felt 24/7/365 from puberty to the day I got my first T shot.

Lately, I’ve begun to think of intersex in another way; that is, as a whole spectrum of sexes (much as genderqueers and others think of gender). I wonder if perhaps we should throw out the notion of a sex binary and recognize that male and female are only two of many different sexes. I’m under no illusion as to the state of my body at birth. I was born with ovaries, a uterus, and a vagina, and I have XX chromosomes (as far as I know, since I’ve never had a chromosome test). But was I born female? Should I be describing myself as an FTM, if I was never truly female and will never be male? (Not to be confused with man, my gender).

[Guest harvester52]

I really think the publicity of this hurts us... bad.

I was teaching a class on 3D animation today, and some of my students started talking about Thomas Beatie. They called him "she" and laughed, and said how sick it was, calling him a 'transvestite". They don't know I am transgendered, they think I am biologically male... I almost outed myself simply so they could see that a transgendered man is a man nonetheless.

I was so angry, but being the teacher, I couldn't express it. I felt my fists clench and my face get hot with every rude comment made. Nobody stood up to Thomas's defense, and the class couldn't get over the subject until I raised my voice, and said, "NOW! You see what I'm doing here..." and continued with the lesson.

-Bruce

[Guest Madison_Always]

my mom just brought this up she seemed compasionate and curious. my dad on the other hand scared me and my coming out plight he said he was a freak and that hurt and scared me. im sorry on behalf off his comments.

[Guest Chad Micheals]

ok this is right now a very bad thing with all the TV covering it like we are freaks and i for one don't like it but i'm off and don't hear thing being siad about FTM or even MTF at all (army doing something right there).

i think we need to let it play out, we have soem very good transgender pppl doing great thing to help others all over and i hope the just try the media that its his choose to have this child. his right to choose... reaberr this is happening in the "land of the free" (ok every laugh then think about it). the sellling his story thing is low act for anyone to do but if he didn;t tell it some would just make somethign up and sell it saying it was with his peristion to write it. this coutry is ran bu the all mighty green buck and that not going to change.

gender roles may be change but we have a long way before think male with child and not a joke or a house wife's dream. gender norms are always going to be there to a point, its life.

even if we don't mean to we do teach our childern that boys don;t cry and grls play with dolls... but boys can play with action fighers and grls can be tomboys but don;t be gay.. i'm formthe mid-west state of ohio. there not much change to a point but its always take time to change ppl minds if there not 5 yrs old.. the older genration is not going to understand it but we just got to stand as one but if some are so in stealth and not willing to say even to there family "hi i'm TG and i'm a happy health person.. get over it"

ok stealth is all good at time for safty but him slef and his family in harms way here. there are rapes and all other stuff done to FTM's. now that the hate groups know they are going to follow him and his family all the round to keep it out there that they hate him and belive he is evil.. divels happy to meet him and all other stuff.. why let urself deal with that stress and stress to ur family..

i'm not saying to reject him at all. he need srupot and he need help... if can't are we any better then those hate groups?

i hope we are.. i would if i was not gear up to go back to a sandy place.

my last thing is on if T is why we are who we are then its going to be hard for that child (female or male) to live a life and have a happy life. child is trans/intersex that will be somethign to see. there a problem there what if docs want to study the child as a lab rat... to find a cruse for ppl like us.. it the govermant they do think like this sadly i know cuse i work for them. there a lot of what if with this child, its it going to be female or male (they us srums so there stil Y in there)...

ok that my peace to say..(i hope everyone understand me)

-chad

"with my honor is my word. my word is my sword"

[Guest GoldenKirbichu]

The frustration here is that people aren't seeing gender and sex for what they really are: a nebulous concept, not a binary.

We're too used to putting things into neat categories when the real result is much messier.

[Guest Joanna]

I'm not so sure about this one I been asking around and people aren't taking this good. Its already hard enough for us as it is but this just seems to be hurting us more than doing good. I respect Thomas decsion but I think it would of been better if he adopted. I'm just sick of walking around in school and people calling him a (she) which really is really annoying me. I don't care that he is pregnant he is still a man in my eyes. l I don't know I'm about 50/50 on this one. I give best of wishes to Thomas his wife and the baby.

~Joanna

[Guest Tabe]

I'm personally getting really hurt by all the "he's not really trans" and "he should have adopted" comments I've seen here so far. You'd think that the trans community would be more supportive. But I suppose, no matter what you've been through, you can't see viewpoints that disagree with your own. It's depressing.

I'll say it. I am an FTM. I am male, and I know it. I also want kids. I want a biological child. And I don't want to use a surrogate, for a multitude of reasons. I believe that I have a strong enough psyche to last the nine months needed to bring a child into this world. I may adopt other children after that, but for personal reasons, I want at least one biological one. I really don't see how that makes me any less of a man. I'm a special sort of man to begin with, right?

Granted, I also wouldn't go public with something like that. The obvious stress Thomas is going through can't be healthy for the child. From what I can tell, it's simple enough to hide the pregnancy, at least up until the last stages of development. It has been done before, so it can undoubtedly be done again. So as I can see that, I also don't see any need for adoption if the pregnancy can stay healthy.

Although Thomas is being selfish by going public, isn't it also selfish to say that "he should have just adopted" instead of trying to see another man's point of view? I may be young and naive, but I thought that we could be better than that...

[Andi]

I personally think it hurts us. I was at the gym and the topic turned to the pregnant man. The basic opinion was that if SHE wanted a baby then SHE shouldn't have taken the testosterone. They then went on to say all sorts of horrible things about TG's and FTM's in general. Yes we need to get information out there but this almost throws it in their faces. Not only that but it is confusing! People need to better understand what TG. TS, CD is before they can fully understand the concept of a Man having a Baby.

I have 'hands-on' experience in this matter. My hubby tried to get Preg b4 starting on T because I could not carry. We weren't able to get preg and I understand how this couple feels. Trying to explain to people that my hubby was preg would have been interesting!! We were going to hide it and stay under the radar and then cross the "where did the baby come from" bridge when we crossed it.

Anyway, I think this couple may have hurt our cause because people don't understand.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I think it hurts us, because no one hears anything about trans people until it's something really out there like a pregnant man..so the images people are getting about us are from these sorts of out-there situations. Actually, this has been on my mind for quite awhile, because a few months ago in school, I forgot why, but someone brought up the pregnant man in class, and my teacher said "No! We're not talking about that freak show!" But she said it with some humor, so the class started laughing...while I kept thinking "If she really knew about me, is that what she would call me- freak show???" And it's been bugging me ever since, like maybe people will start to think of me that way if i told them the truth.

Also, I never can understand why he would have had any desire to be pregnant if he was FTM, if part of being FTM is an aversion to the experience of being pregnant, which also gives the public the wrong idea about us.

[Guest JayJaye]

Also, I never can understand why he would have had any desire to be pregnant if he was FTM, if part of being FTM is an aversion to the experience of being pregnant, which also gives the public the wrong idea about us.

I have two children, so have done the pregnant/nursing thing twice. Not all FTMs have an aversion to becoming pregnant, not all loathe the female parts. In my experience, I wanted biological children from an early age, and at the time I married my gender issues were completely buried in denial due to my upbringing.

I'm not sure I'd have chosen pregnancy had I already transitioned (those parts are going ASAP) but as a parent I can understand the need/desire to have a biological child, and if my wife were unable, who knows.

Thing is, he's not the first to do it, though he may be the first to be out there publicly. I thought he and his wife were genuine and NOT freaks, and I thought they showed a human side to what being trans is like. I don't think of Thomas as a freak.

Jay

[Guest Leah1026]

I hadn't read this thread before today.

Does it help or hurt?

I think it does BOTH. Sure for the most part it hurts like hell right now, but in the long run I think it helps expand the envelope of what is possible. Kinda like now that they've seen it people will eventually say "What's the big deal?" We just have to ride this wave of negative media out, stand our ground and eventually tolerance will win out.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I apologize for the stereotypical overtones of my male pregnancy statements...personally, I cannot understand this because I the thought of me being pregnant always freaked me out, even when I was very little. I can see if he had had the baby before transitioning, but even I found it a little odd that being FTM, he decided to keep female organs after the surgery. I'm FTM and even I am confused by this concept. I have trouble not thinking in black and white

[Guest Jack Solomon]

I apologize for the stereotypical overtones of my male pregnancy statements...personally, I cannot understand this because I the thought of me being pregnant always freaked me out, even when I was very little. I can see if he had had the baby before transitioning, but even I found it a little odd that being FTM, he decided to keep female organs after the surgery. I'm FTM and even I am confused by this concept. I have trouble not thinking in black and white

Hey, My Genesis, I'm kind of like you on this. No desire in any way to have children, nor do I share biological feelings of any kind towards the idea. The thought of pregnancy in any way is essentially illogical in how I perceive it and makes me rather deeply uncomfortable. From my earliest concepts of pregnancy it was not something I would do. I actually had some somewhat humorous fears of getting pregnant through unconventional means (ie, using a public toilet), because the idea uneased me so badly. Yes, I was outstanding at educating myself on all matters of reproduction (possibly to "understand the enemy", I suppose you could say), but the fears were still present.

My take is that it hurts more than it helps, but I can conceptually estimate as to why he would go through with it - for the love of his wife and their desire to have biological children. It is also very possible he is entirely looking at the outcome with this - a child who is directly related to his wife (who can't have kids). Kind of like a surrogate situation. I respect that the drive to reproduce is strong in others, despite having no interest myself in attaining a baby through female pregnancy or through any other means available. If I could be a father through the typical male way, I would have no issue because I believe I could be a good father. I do lament somewhat that I can never father a child (mainly because it goes along with being born with a male body), but for me personally I see no other possibilities.

I joined in on another discussion regarding this pregnant man on a very respectful and intelligent forum for Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab perfume oils. Here was my take on it:

I have mixed thoughts on this one, mainly for the mixed press his story is receiving, because this situation hits close to home for me. I have strong beliefs in my support of transsexuals and their need to transition fully and integrate, both socially and otherwise (there is another reason it hits close to home, but I won't go into it here). In fact, I was talking to my father about this man's situation the other day. My father says he can understand that it's a strong pull to want a child of your own (I myself have no desire to have children but can conceptualize that it is an important drive for others, whereas my father always wanted a child of his own), but our shared consensus boils down to, basically, his situation receiving so much media puts transsexuals under scrutiny that they really don't need. We both agree that perhaps he would be safer if he had decided to stay private (press-wise) with his pregnancy, but I otherwise respect his decision to a point because as I just said the need for a child is often very strong, regardless of what body you're born into.

I know that many folks will say this is a unique situation that in some ways gives transsexuals positive press, and to some more well-rounded and respectful folks it will be received as positive press, but the average person in many areas of the US just does not have enough to go on for this to have a positive impact on them (other than for novelty's sake as in, 'he's a man giving birth, that's a unique one', which is one of the more common positive reactions I've seen so far on talk shows. And if that was the majority consensus in the media, I would happy with the press I've seen so far).

Please note I am not in any way criticizing his choice to have a baby. It is unusual for a ftm transsexual to produce a baby of their own body after deciding to transition, but it does happen. FTMs come in all creeds, views on themselves and variances. The drive to have a child of their own also plays a factor, as mentioned previously. I've heard of an ftm pregnancy a few times before, but usually the parents keep everything fairly private which is why I suppose this news story is considered so attention grabbing. As I've seen his situation explained he found out his wife is infertile and there was no other way to get a biological baby. Most likely he is simply viewing the process as being a surrogate for the child. In any case, I wish him well and hope he is well-monitored by his doctor(s) throughout the pregnancy.

Everything else aside, it is the negative or uninformed aspects of the press that trouble me. Some people will not see it in a balanced way and it bothers me to see people trivializing this man or referring to him as 'she' on a radio show and discussing how there's got to be something deeply mentally wrong for anyone who would do 'that' - meaning transitioning in the radio show hosts' limited understanding of it - to their own body. This made me very uncomfortable, to hear information like the crap they were speculating on being so off the mark, because it gives listeners of the show falsified information.

Anyway, I am not meaning to preach here, or play the devil's advocate, I'm just attempting to respectfully share a few sides of a complex issue on something I feel strongly about.

Solomon