No one should ever feel that they do not belong here

[Guest KimberlyF]

I would like to see a no surgery or no hormones forum so that there will be a specific place to discuss options. If there was a separate forum, when these topis come up it will be clear that the discussion is not directed at those who are pursuing HRT or SRS. The discussions could be geared toward folks who can not take hormones (some reasons why may include: they have tried HRT but could not tolerate it, they have a contraindicated medical condition or can not get approval, or cannot afford HRT or SRS . There are many people who are in trans gender who are not ready for HRT or SRS, are concerned about potential health risks or want to live as the gender that suits them but want to live without hormones and/or surgery ( some people may not need HRT or SRS to meet their ideal appearance and gender expression.)

I would feel more comfortable talking about options to HRT and SRS on a forum for people who very clearly are seeking alternatives.

In support of All ... people transitioning with SRS, HRT, T, and also No/Ho, No/So

JB

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. I think most here would agree JB is an awesome person. You can tell them they belong, and they responded favorable earlier in the topic, or you can ask them how they would feel more comfortable here and listen to them. In post 3 here they had to be reminded that they were part of the community. And yet look a these ideas they were sitting on.

How many people feel like JB and just never bothered to register or walked away after a short time?

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Thanks for showing your support everyone.

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

I think that's an awesome idea JB. I belive there is a thread somewhere but there should be a whole forum because it's a significant and valid part of our community.

I personally am afraid that I may not be granted T or surgery within the rules of the NHS because of my disabilities and I know that if I'm not I'll need support with that coz it will be a big difference in my transition to that of most FTM's (which I only mention as a specific part of our community coz that's what I consider myself to be).

Although I am genuinely happy for each person who starts hormones and want to take my part in celebrating with them, I do find it slightly painful with the delays I'm facing with the NHS already (a year after asking for a referral and still no psych appointment to hopefully approve me to be put back in a waiting list for a gender therapist...I'm planning to go and speak to my GP again because I haven't heard of anyone waiting this long and honestly fear my referral may have been lost in the system which I've heard does occasionally happen).

If when I finally get into a gender clinic I find that I can't physically jump through the hoops they require to be granted T and surgery then I know sure as heck I'm gonna need a refuge to hide away occasionally from those subjects that weigh so heavily in a lot of other areas of the board.

People in the other areas of the board shouldn't have to tiptoe around the mention and celebration of hormones and surgery coz they are such a big part of a lot of peoples transition but I can really see that there needs to be a place where they wont be such a big part of things too.

Thank you for the suggestion JB.

I hope that people feel they can come to a member of staff with any problems or sugestions here but maybe you're right Kimberly that we should specifically remind people from time to time that we are here to listen to them not just to approve posts and such.

Gabe

[Guest lairlane]

Great discussion gang. And kuddos again to WWWOLP (M.E.)

I always knew there was something about the primordial soup of gardens, geeks, guns, and photographers.

Hugs also to PJ,

[Guest carolynn2fem]

That's why Laura is so adamant that this is to be an umbrella community. Everyone here is EQUAL and is to be treated as such. From the occasional crossdresser to the post-ops. No one group is more important than another. Holier than thou attitudes are not welcome here. We all need to make the effort to see that that doesn't happen.

MaryEllen

Being a unbrella community is great. but for me the downside of it is that in a way it is too big. I have passed throu LP several time in prevous years before joining. too much information to wade throu to find what Ya want or need. when it comes to forums and boards. the sheer number seems overwelming and couses a person to wonder if I am posting in the right place. or I start a thread it has 10 posts total 2 other people involved but has 250 plus veiws makes me think is that problem that insugnificant to everyone else.

Mind You I'm not complaining. I found what I'm looking for this time. but it is difficult to intigrate into a place this big. that may lead to the preceive feeling of not belonging. I.m still looking for the thread titled LP for dummies. that may help the intigration difficulty

[Guest Mia J]

Great suggestion JB.

Mia

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

I hope you find your 'LP for dummies' Carolynn2fem in whatever form it may come and whatever it may need to say for you to help...coz it is a good and friendly place once you start getting to know people a bit. For me when I was new I just posted an intro thread, a few thoughts and questions I had and started responding to things I could identify with, both because it helped in my search to get to know myself and because it helped me to start talking to people. It wasn't long before I began to notice a few of the same people popping up over and over again to respond to me and other people in threads I was in and by taking notice of what they said I began to feel a sense of connection with a couple of them.

As I started feeling more comfortable I started chatting to people in some of the light, social or fun threads as well as the serious ones which helped me get to know people more too.

a couple of people PMed me or I PMed them to chat more about things that had been raised on the board or even just to say 'I've spoken with you in a few threads and I like how you roll, how are you doing' kinda thing...soon I began to feel like I had friends here and like it was MY community not just A community.

I mean I didn't sit there and wait for people to come pull me in but it wasn't hard to get in either. Did you know i've heard it said that it takes around 100 posts to really start forming connections in an (any) internet community? Some people may find it easier than that and some harder...I guess part of it is luck as to how long it takes you tom wind up in a few threads with a couple of people you'll click with and start to notice a connection with the potential for friendship.

I don't know what else I can say really...only I do hope you do manage to get more involved and start to feel more at home here coz I know I've found it such a valuable resource, support and just generally good place to be.

I guess the other thing I'd say is, don't take too much notice of view counts on a thread...I believe the way it calculates that is flawed although I'm not technically enough minded to prove that to you. It's only something Ive heard said at other sites where the issue has been raised. Just coz it says there are 127 views doesn't actually necessaries mean 127 people came and read the thread...and of those who did some will have checked the thread several times to see what new relies there were since they last said something, and some will have just had nothing to contribute...which is fair if you think about it coz if a FTM clicks onto a thread only to find it is about makeup or tucking or something of the sort they are pretty likely to not have anything to add. Also if I click onto a thread where someone is asking about other peoples experience with T...well I haven't started T, so again, I'm out of that one..or maybe someone has already said everything you can think of to say...or its asking for some fact that you just plain don't know the answer to...and there are tons of other situations where a person might look but not have anything to say to a given thread..

we a community that covers the whole spectrum of transness...and even 2 people at a similar spot on the spectrum (2 FTM's for instance) are individuals and may not share the same experience to be able to advice each other

...and then for not getting more responses it might be that the people who could relate or answer you aren't online right now or just happen to miss the thread in the list of new threads coz it's a long one since they last visited (I mean when the site's at it's busiest threads that I haven't read or responded to can be pushed 3 or 4 pages back in the active threads list and it sometimes takes more time or energy than I've got that day to get to them.

None of that is to say I (or most of the other people who don't respond) don't care about what's been said in those threads or feel bad as heck to leave someone without more responses. Personally if I'm looking through and I see a thread that hasn't been responded to at all then I try with all my heart to come up with SOME kinda response to give even if I don't actually have the tools to answer what the person is asking for coz I just can't stand seeing someone not responded to! Down point to that is that if 20 of us all do that just to give the person plenty of responses and make them feel heard then the person who actually HAS the answer might come along and see that thread is already pretty active with 20 people talking in it so they pass it by and go and respond to something that hasn't got so many responses yet!

See what I mean? It's not as easy to judge what's going on as it seems.

I can promise you that people here genuinely care and want to help when you post...just for whatever reason it may not work out how you needed it to.

At the end of the day if you don't get what you need and your thread dies and hasn't been touched for a couple of days with out you getting your answer...and you've tried to revive it by letting people know that you still haven't got what you needed and you're still really needing something, then I guess I'd sugest trying to re-word it a bit...maybe give a little more info about the situation and what you're needing...and then try posting again. Maybe this time the right person will be in the right place to see and answer for you.

I can also promise you that people want to make you feel welcome and to get same support and sense of belonging that we feel here...just maybe you've arrived on a quiet day or those few people you're going to build up a friendship with are randomly all not online today...or they're gonna join tomorrow and you'll strike up the friendship by YOU welcoming THEM...or just plain and simple everyone thinks that someone else is taking you under their wing...it can happen...sad as we would all be to find it had happened the odd person does slip through the cracks...no one feels worse about it when that does happen than us mods I can tell you (and a lot of the members who genuinely care about each other here too). If that does happen to you then I guess all I can suggest is that you take a pro-active course of action in response and look around to see who you feel a connection with from reading their posts and make the first move. You might end up with the greatest friendship and support network you ever had as a result!

...well I guess I just sat here and wrote my own version of 'LP for dummies' didn't I...at least from my point of view...these are the things I needed to know to become part of the community when I arrived. Maybe you need to know something different...if you do then start yourself a thread and go ahead ans ask it.

I'll say again...I honestly hope you find your way through the teething troubles and get to feel the support and community that I feel here coz it's a good place and you deserve it.

Gabe

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

by the way everyone else, I know that great long post is irrelevant to most of the discussion of this thread but I was responding directly to Carolynn2fem

...who if she's an average person was probably put off by how much I waffled and gave up reading it long before the end anyway.

Again I apologise.

Gabe

[Guest Juniper Blue]

I'm kind of a "Dummie" and so, I focus on one forum when I feel overwhelmed and don't have much time .. I branch out when I have more time or when I am feeling like I need to reach out. Everyone seems fine with my surfing.

[Drea]

I would like to see a no surgery or no hormones forum so that there will be a specific place to discuss options.

I would toss in a different point of view. I consider such completely valid option. not to have SRS or not to have hormones. Not everyone valles into the transsexual category. Even for transsexuals, such options are valid as well. As it is there is so much focus on hormones and surgery within transsexuals the bit, of other discussion that does occur as to the different paths is good. It would be dissipointing to see people who may identify as transsexual (or whatever preferred term) that do not see hormones and/or surgery as the only path getting the message they aren't really transsexual. Likewise it could reinforce the idea that hormones and surgery are a must for transsexuals.

So while I see the good intent in the idea, I could also see that good intention having an effect different than what is desired.

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Good perspectives Drea ...

I was reading on Barbara Ehrenreich's blog ( the Author of "Nickled and Dimed" ) that 33% of Americans are currently unable to afford their prescribed medications. I can't help but wonder how many of those people are trans gender and are in the position of choosing their medications and treatment over adequate nutrition or safe housing. With discrimination in the work place, I think that it is very likely that the Trans Gender community is especially vulnerable during economic down-turns... ( which for some of us may feel more like nose dives.)

I don't know ... it seems that for so many reasons there will undoubtedly be a percentage of Trans Gender people my must live without HRT or T at some point in their lives ( if not for their entire lives) and they will need the love and support of people that really understand and are living this experience, first hand.

The No/Ho No/So Forum could provide a safe place for this specific type of support .. in a way that I feel is not currently offered here on LP.

It's just a suggestion ...

JB

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

That's a point too JB.

Drea, I don't see a no hormones no op area as taking away people from the transsexual forums..there will be crossovers just as there are in every area of the site....but if you want to talk STP's you go to the FTM area where you will not only be able to ask your question among other people who have a higher likelyhood of being able to answer and understand you but you will find all kinds of other threads you can check out on a similar theme...and you don't have to start your post by explaining all the ins and outs of STP's and what it feels like to need one (although you could if you wanted to and if it felt important to you to talk about it at the time) coz you're talking to an audience who understands that already...that's why you wouldn't go into the general area to talk specifically about STP's. Doesn't mean you can't then go and post about something else in the general area and then answer a post in the MTF area even...just means that when you need to talk about the guys stuff in a place where you know the basics are already understood and (imagine for a moment we didn't have the gender identity label we choose to put on ourselves under our signature just as we don't have a hormone and surgery plans tag) no one's gonna get confused with what you're asking and start giving you advice better suited for a MTF talking about their toileting habits...think about if that happened for a moment...at best you have to go through all the hassle of explaining why that advice isn't helpful and waste space in the thread talking about it and someone feels embarrassed for not remembering that information about that person and someone else is offended and upset. At worst though the dysphoria increase of being treated like the wrong gender in what is supposed to be the one place that never happens pushes a fragile person over the edge

...yet we're all transsexual aren't we? the MTF's and FTM's so why do we need our own separate areas?

Those of us who are living without hormones and/or surgery either permanently or for a significant amount of time that it will change how they would otherwise have chosen to transition DO face specific challenges and have a need for a place to easily receive support, solidarity, and even just the proof laid out with an area of posts dedicated to our specific issues that this is a feasible way to not only live but thrive in our transitions to the point where we are at peace

Gabe

[Guest CariadsCarrot]

I also want to say...I knew for a long time that transsexuals existed but never once did it give me hope that I could some day live as a man because no one had ever told me that FTM's existed! (everything I had ever learnt about transfolks was that it was male cross dressers wearing womens clothes, drag queens, once I saw something about drag kings but they were very rare and MTF's)

we have I think every part of the trans community represented with an area of the site (is that correct?)

What if I'd come here and the one missing was FTM's? I probably wouldn't have trawled through enough threads in a busy general transsexual forum to find out enough about FTM's to give me hope (especially given that there weren't many guys active when I joined...I think I mainly only saw John and Johnny and I'd probably have lost hope before I came across a thread by one of 2 members in amongst all the ladies)

But a saw a well stocked FTM area full of info I could identify with and it didn't take me too long looking through it when I knew specifically where to look to work out that I identified with these people.

Now think, a trans person who does not have access or hope of access to hormones or surgery for whatever reason comes by here

We have a few posts that mention people living without hormones hidden amongst the hundreds of ones that mention people using hormones and surgery as part of their transition...celebrating those mile stones...talking about working toward them or what happens after them...a thread for them to talk in hidden in one of the forums but no one says much in it because a single thread is not conducive to the kind of posting and working things through and discussing things in the way you can in an open forum where you can start your own threads...so there's nothing much to identify with or give you hope that this is a real option for transitioning.

...is this enough to make you feel like Laura's could be your life line as it is here to be for those people as much as any other?

If you do stay how easy is it to connect to other people in the same situation as you swamped among all the other posts in a general area?

Do you really get as much of a life line as the people who are here without that complication in their transition?

We have the post op forum which is not highly active but it's there...as much to show people that we really can get there as anything else and to give us a clear plae to go to find out about living post op...coz those posts could go in the other areas just as easily as the no hormones no op posts can...but it's important to have that area I think

and it doesnt stop the post op people from being in the other forums too does it?

i've talked enough and probably said a lot of needless things.

I just feel like once the idea was raised I realised how important it is ...partly because I can identify with the need (whether I end up to get my T and surgery or not in the end the chance I might to makes me see what it would be like not to)...and partly...more importantly coz I have seen other people in this community who are living with this as a big part of their transition and I feel would benifit from having this

...and the more we talk about it the more I feel that.

I'll stop now though

[Guest Lacey Lynne]

Good perspectives Drea ...

I was reading on Barbara Ehrenreich's blog ( the Author of "Nickled and Dimed" ) that 33% of Americans are currently unable to afford their prescribed medications. I can't help but wonder how many of those people are trans gender and are in the position of choosing their medications and treatment over adequate nutrition or safe housing. With discrimination in the work place, I think that it is very likely that the Trans Gender community is especially vulnerable during economic down-turns... ( which for some of us may feel more like nose dives.)

I don't know ... it seems that for so many reasons there will undoubtedly be a percentage of Trans Gender people my must live without HRT or T at some point in their lives ( if not for their entire lives) and they will need the love and support of people that really understand and are living this experience, first hand.

The No/Ho No/So Forum could provide a safe place for this specific type of support .. in a way that I feel is not currently offered here on LP.

It's just a suggestion ...

JB

Hey, Blue:

That particular authoress is a FAVE of mine, and that particular book is too. It's in my library, and I've read it through approximately 3-4 times. Every word of it is the stone-cold truth. I lived the lifestyle it describes for years. Many here have. Heck, I STILL do to a degree.

ALL the delays in my transition have been due the issues this particular book describes. How so? Approximate 7 years ago, I made nearly twice as much money as I do now ... doing EXACTLY the same kind of work ... I'm a much better transcriptionist now than I was then. So, why the decrease?

Corporate mergers. A very small goup of supercompanies now own basically all the hospitals in the country. They see us as an expense. They've systematically lowered wages and benefits. Their philosophy is: "If you don't like it, there's the door. We've got 1000 people standing in line waiting for your job." They do too.

As I've said so many times on these forums (for which many on here think I'm crazy and avoid me) is that BUSINESS AS USUAL, THE WAY OF THE WORLD, THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE that is current worldwide society is a course of certain suicide for humanity if it does not abate. It shows no signs of abating. The people running things (at the very tippy-top) are: Insane, evil, maniacal.

They're socking it to us on purpose, bro/babes. I'll debate this issue any time and any place with anybody. Heck, I'd debate it at halftime of The Super Bowl with me against everybody. THAT'S how sure I am that I know what I'm talking about! Now, I'm either nuts or confident! I plead the latter!

Watch these 3 videos if you want you all of which are available on YouTube for free:

* David Icke - Brilliant Speech posted by a user named leia176oo.

* The movie "The Matrix" starring Keanu Reeves as Neo. It'll be in segments.

* The move "V for Vendetta" which will also be in segments.

After watching these videos, a person will know the causes and reasons why things are the way they are as Barbara Ehrenreich describes in her splending books! There is another AMAZING book entitled "Declining Fortunes: The Withering of the American Dream" written by a brilliant authoress named Katherine S. Newman, an Ivy League college professor. That book is spot-on accurate and brilliant!

Another Barbara Ehrenreich book you may majorly enjoy is entitled "Fear of Falling" contemporaneous to Katherine Newman's tome and equally good! Fine reading fare! Imbibe with gusto!

Doggone it, approximately 35 years ago, I dropped out of college in the middle of my senior year (despite being on The Dean's List, blah, blah, blah), because I KNEW that The System stank to the high heavens, was thoroughly evil and was monsterous beyond description. Nearly 4 decades have done nothing but strengthen this conviction of my youth! I refused to become a part of it and, accordingly, have paid the very high price by working the schlocko jobs Barbarah Ehrenreich describes in "Nicked and Dimed" all these years. Screw it! It's been worth it! Take a stand!

I descend from my impromptu mythical soap box and slink humbly away back into mediocrity and anonymity amongst the nameless, faceless masses leading lives of not-so-quiet desperation, thank you, Henry David Thoreau (another totally fave author of mine)!

Peace Out Lacey Lynne

Once the system of Greed & Grab is replaced by the system of Share & Care, transgendered people (and everybody else!) can readily get the care they so vehemently need and want! It's up to us to make it so. It's "ain't gonna be easy" in any way.

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Once the system of Greed & Grab is replaced by the system of Share & Care, transgendered people (and everybody else!) can readily get the care they so vehemently need and want! It's up to us to make it so. It's "ain't gonna be easy" in any way.( Quote by the most amazing, Lacey Lynne) LOVE IT!!

[Carolyn Marie]

Regarding JB's suggestion, its been pointed out by the Administrators that the Transgenderism Forum is really the appropriate place for anyone who wants to discuss issues related to non-transitioning, by those who don't self -identify as transsexuals. Not all who fall into that category choose or like that term, but it is the one commonly used in the psychological and medical community, and we try to adhere to those professional definitions and standards.

So, the bottom line is that a place already exists within the forums for folks who identify as something other than transsexuals, and want to discuss commonalities. But my colleagues and I truly appreciate the input.

My apologies in advance if I haven't expressed myself very well in this post. Transgenderism is not an area in which I am very well versed, and it wouldn't surprise me if I got things slightly skewed. Thanks for you understanding.

HUGS'

Carolyn Marie

[Guest ~Brenda~]

To follow up with Carolyn. Laura has spent a lot of time to carefully orchestrate the forums into the categories that they are. As it turns out "no hrt, no srs" actually falls into "transgenderists" as defined by the professional medical community. I did not know this fact.

Indeed Laura knows exactly what she is doing.

Here's the link to the transgenderist's forum

http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showforum=39

Brenda

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Thanks.

[Guest Juniper Blue]

One suggestion .. since most people may not make the connection that Trangenderism is synonymous with No/Ho No/So (as this would never of occurred to me) Perhaps can we expand the title of that Forum:

Trandenderists: No/Ho No/So

So that pole can know where to look for this information and not miss it.

I just had a new negative response to T information that I to provided in a thread intended to gather information for healthy living, exercise and dietary adjustments etc. to help one maintain good health while on T ( Long Term ... for 20 years or more) ...

I hoped that the thread would attract much needed voices from Men who have on T for more than one or two years.

Mostly, I hoped that the thread would educate men on ways to live with minimum health risks while taking T and I emphasized the importance of close medical supervision while taking T( with the realization that there may be some readers who are using T without supervision ... even though this is against LP policy.) I hope it isn't happening but then, we can't afford to be naive .. especially when we know that so many people are without insurance/adequate health care.

I have decided to stop talking about T and reated health and fitness suggestions unless information is requested clearly on a No/Ho Forum.

Best to All,

JB

[Guest Juniper Blue]

You know .. I have given it some thought and I have read more about Trangenderists and I really don't think that the term Transgenerist is at all accurate in describing my experience. It certainly does not seem an accurate description for anyone who cannot take hormones because of medical reasons but is determined by their doctor and GT to be Trans Gender.

Still .. I guess the Trangenderist Forum could be shared by those who are No/So or No/Ho ( by choice or by medical necessity)

I do think that it is critical (if we wish people to find this information) to change the Forum Title to make it clear that No/So and No/Ho is classified with Transgenderists. I really don't see how anyone would think to look their fro No/So or No/Ho support.

Would it be possible to change the Transgenderist Forum Title to: Trangenderists and No/So No/Ho ??

[Carolyn Marie]

Would it be possible to change the Transgenderist Forum Title to: Trangenderists and No/So No/Ho ??

All things are possible, JB (well, except politicians who tell the truth ). We'll get back to you.

Carolyn Marie

[Guest Juniper Blue]

POLITICIANS!!! LOL!

[Drea]

I expected such would be the case, that those, for whatever reason including those who are transsexual not opting for surgery or hormones would get segregated apart from the transsexual forums thus perpetuating the idea that hormones, RLT and possibly SRS are the only realistic options. Even the description under Transgenderists forum says "This should not be confused with Transsexualism or HBS. It is not the same."

In my opinion people who choose, what in many cases are hard choices for them to make by not transitioning are in need of as much validation if not more than those transitioning tend to get and not find themselves lumped into a category they don't feel applies to them.

[Guest Juniper Blue]

Maybe I am a UNICORN ....

not really ... my horn is way too short.

Anyway ... thanks Drea.

[Carolyn Marie]

I expected such would be the case, that those, for whatever reason including those who are transsexual not opting for surgery or hormones would get segregated apart from the transsexual forums thus perpetuating the idea that hormones, RLT and possibly SRS are the only realistic options.

I don't know where you get that, Drea. No one here is segregated. No one is told they can't post in any forum they want to post in. No topics are forbidden, unless they violate the rules. Someone asked about a separate forum, and the question was answered. No more, no less.

Carolyn Marie