Guess I Don't Get Girls After All..

[Guest My_Genesis]

So I thought I got along pretty well with girls. Other than the fact that I'm way more self-conscious around girls than around guys...but one of my really close friends (who's a girl) can confuse me sometimes. We were private messaging each other on facebook, and everything was cool, so then the next reply I get back, is like "whatever I said my two cents, that's why I don't like talking to people." And some long post on my wall about how no one likes her or cares about her and she's done listening to people and trying to be nice to people (with a bunch of cursing throughout the post). So how should I know what to say to that? i don't like when people start getting all emotionally unstable and spaz out like that, I feel really awkward and i don't know what to say. Maybe i shouldn't be close friends with girls. I don't know, you think everything's cool and then you just get this emotional outburst and can't figure out where it comes from. Then when she messaged me back the second time she said she's tired of being underappreciated, and some other chick is the only one who appreciated her help. So I'm pretty confused right now. I don't really know what I did wrong.

[Guest Evan_J]

Congratulations. Now you're a boy.

Ok, flip answer and I actually apologize. I dunno. Girls are hard. I love girls. But don't "understand" them when things like what you described happen. And you think that as you get older it "changes" I know you do, but.... it has something to do with emotions. I can have some of the best conversations with women. But, if theres a romantic relationship going on, and emotions start "flying around" lots of times I have "no clue" whats happening. And (as in your case) sometimes platonic friends can have "emotional" (non romantic) moments. Again, I'm lost. And that drives me crazy cuz I'm the kind of guy who wants to understand "what the heck just happened here?" The very best answer I can do for you is "acknowledge" whatever she said, apparently she's feeling the things she said, but don't go buying that you actually "did something to her". Maybe it doesn't even have anything to do with you? Stilll, she'll want to feel that her feelings have been "acknowledged". DO NOT say "I didn't do anything to you". Girls hate that. Be sympathetic. "Listen" to whatever it is she has to say. After you think she's finished voicing whats going on with her, tell her "you're sorry she's feeling like that", and then ask her "if there's anything you can do to help her not feel like that". This is WAY safer than saying "what did I do" or anything like that, cuz if it really doesn't have anything to do with you she'll probably really be upset then that as her friend you didn't even know that.

Its the best I can do, and thats after 40 years.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I already said about two or three times "I still don't really understand what I did that made you suddenly start saying I'm unappreciative.."

She already knows I'm "insensitive"...long story that I'm not gonna get into here. But I told her I had a guy tell me that so it must be pretty bad. lol

well now she's saying it's stress and she got really mad for no reason. but im still kinda lost. 0_o

I really don't get what there is to be stressed about though, if I had body-mind congruency I'd probably be almost 100% stress-free. So I don't get what people stress about so much. Maybe I just have a super high stress tolerance. And apparently I have a lot more emotional control over stress and anger than some people do.

[Guest Evan_J]

Don't question her. A girl has given you a reprieve. Just accept it. Tell her you "just wanted to make sure she feels better". Try not to provoke her. Obviously she's going through something or has something thats on her mind but let her pick the time to tell you. Until then just be nice without annoying her. Maybe do something you two have always had fun doing together?

[Guest My_Genesis]

grr i hate when people don't tell you what the problem is until like a year later. lol

we were planning on looking for snowboard gear together because i might be going snowboarding with a friend from college this month. so when i explained to her why i needed the gear, she said "fine then go with her instead." and i said well i still need to buy gear i didnt mean that shes coming with me for that. so idk. maybe shes lonely or something. because since ive made a lot of friends at college she seems to get jealous and angry every time i bring up someone from school. although i cant really tell for sure. i wish if something was bugging her she'd just tell me.

i probably shouldnt talk though because if stuff is bothering me i dont really like to talk about it much. although im not gonna snap at someone and then say i did it for no reason. and normally there is a reason. So if i do inadvertently snap at someone and it's because of something too personal (like related to trans stuff) at least ill say something like im tired or i had a long day..

but yeah she apologized but maybe she really meant all that about me being insensitive and unappreciative. so maybe i should make more of an effort to be nice. maybe it's because of her that im so cautious about what i say around girls because i feel like anything i say can be taken totally the wrong way. lol

[Guest Cody_T]

girls resolve things like that all the time... I'm begining to suspect that pms was an invention by which to justify

I guess your friends just need to realize that you are who you are and they have to adjust to that. I hate when girls get like that because I'm totally lost, and I hate when girls get mad at me when I have no idea what I did.

some future tips though:

she's probably not going to be happy to have you say, "I don't understand" over and over again. To me that is the worst thing anyone can say (although that's mostly because I think too fast to slow down and clue everyone else in), and I would guess for anyone it puts a lot of pressure on them because now (especially for girls) it seems like you're blaming them for not being able to communicate.

I'd treat her like you would a kindergartener. When they come home with that very attractive colorful blob, you don't go, "what is it?" you say, "tell me about it". You can probably use the same technique here- instead of saying you don't understand, ask her to explain to you how she's feeling (or some crap like that). It's the same goal, but it makes you seem a. sensitive and b. interested, even if you are neither.

This will make her open up a lot more than when you say, "I don't understand" because it's an open question. Girls love guys who listen, and I know she doesn't see you like that, but seriously girls love anyone who will listen. It will be good for her and your relationship for her to talk. And don't take what she says about you too seriously, because she's judging you on a female scale, which is totally unrelated to the male scale. On the male scale, you get points just for showing up. And anyway, doing little things like listening really go a long way.

Then after she explains (and you do your best to translate), do some basic generic "i'm so sorry about your pain and suffering" if she goes into loneliness, apologize about the actual event if it seems prudent, or explain why what you're doing is necessary. Women tend to respond better to pathos and ethos than logos, (if you know about rhetoric terms), especially when they're expecting you to relate on their level, so I wouldn't give it to her in cold fact. Say some crap about how you really want her to help you shop even though you have to go on the trip with someone else, and that school is pulling you apart but she is a very important part of your life. Appeal to her sensitivity or need to feel useful, even sympathy, rather than her understanding of logistics. Or you can stick to guy friends and not have to put up with crap over where you're buying snow gear.

and I just have to say... this is all really easy to come up with when I'm being objective. When my friends get like that I usually make some excuse about a shower or dinner and don't check facebook for the next few days and then let someone else explain to me what exactly I did wrong through the grapevine. If I really like the friend I'll ask them directly, but then I have to deal with emotion. Which I try not to do. Hugs are about the upper limit of my sympathizing ability.

[Guest Dutchie]

Sorry to interrupt, but maybe a view from the other side helps?

grr i hate when people don't tell you what the problem is until like a year later. lol

Uhm, yes, oh, your memory doesn't go back that far? Sorry, it is a nasty thing, and yes, I am doing it too. Why? I dunno.

I think I have the sensibility to tell people when it has or is happening most of the times and not waiting until days/weeks/months have passed. But in an argument I can drag things along from ages ago... (Yes, it's Bad!)

we were planning on looking for snowboard gear together because i might be going snowboarding with a friend from college this month. so when i explained to her why i needed the gear, she said "fine then go with her instead." (...) she seems to get jealous and angry

Exactly, she seems insecure about your relationship and is afraid of losing you or having to share you (or time with you) with others.

i wish if something was bugging her she'd just tell me.

(...)at least ill say something like im tired or i had a long day..

Now here is where you got wiser or have more 'life' experience than her.

but yeah she apologized but maybe she really meant all that about me being insensitive and unappreciative. so maybe i should make more of an effort to be nice. maybe it's because of her that im so cautious about what i say around girls because i feel like anything i say can be taken totally the wrong way. lol

Oh, but I think if you're being nice without overdoing it, she will appreciate it. And yes, anything you say can and will be used against you... We're time-bombs sometimes...

[Guest Evan_J]

A) Anything you say can be taken the wrong way when you are dealing with a girl B ) (I finally kinda know one !) She actually did tell you whats wrong -But not in English. In "girlspeak". It was right when she started a sentence with "fine". Theres actually a joke about it....I'll send it to you in pm..... but theres "truth" to it. (Sorry folks I wont post it in case its seen as a little sexist) But Elizabeth is right, (at least part) of whats wrong is she's feeling "replaced". That now you have these "fabulous" college friends and maybe you don't want her anymore/need her anymore/ think she's as fun/cool as them. She needs to be reassured. See, its good once we know what the problem is, then we can solve it. But girls never understand it that way. Don't bother trying to explain it. It'll only make her not appreciate your "insensitive" words. Just know it.

And Cody, sounds like you're doin just fine in your education regarding the fairer sex.

[Guest StrandedOutThere]

girls resolve things like that all the time... I'm begining to suspect that pms was an invention by which to justify

I guess your friends just need to realize that you are who you are and they have to adjust to that. I hate when girls get like that because I'm totally lost, and I hate when girls get mad at me when I have no idea what I did.

some future tips though:

she's probably not going to be happy to have you say, "I don't understand" over and over again. To me that is the worst thing anyone can say (although that's mostly because I think too fast to slow down and clue everyone else in), and I would guess for anyone it puts a lot of pressure on them because now (especially for girls) it seems like you're blaming them for not being able to communicate.

I'd treat her like you would a kindergartener. When they come home with that very attractive colorful blob, you don't go, "what is it?" you say, "tell me about it". You can probably use the same technique here- instead of saying you don't understand, ask her to explain to you how she's feeling (or some crap like that). It's the same goal, but it makes you seem a. sensitive and b. interested, even if you are neither.

This will make her open up a lot more than when you say, "I don't understand" because it's an open question. Girls love guys who listen, and I know she doesn't see you like that, but seriously girls love anyone who will listen. It will be good for her and your relationship for her to talk. And don't take what she says about you too seriously, because she's judging you on a female scale, which is totally unrelated to the male scale. On the male scale, you get points just for showing up. And anyway, doing little things like listening really go a long way.

Then after she explains (and you do your best to translate), do some basic generic "i'm so sorry about your pain and suffering" if she goes into loneliness, apologize about the actual event if it seems prudent, or explain why what you're doing is necessary. Women tend to respond better to pathos and ethos than logos, (if you know about rhetoric terms), especially when they're expecting you to relate on their level, so I wouldn't give it to her in cold fact. Say some crap about how you really want her to help you shop even though you have to go on the trip with someone else, and that school is pulling you apart but she is a very important part of your life. Appeal to her sensitivity or need to feel useful, even sympathy, rather than her understanding of logistics. Or you can stick to guy friends and not have to put up with crap over where you're buying snow gear.

and I just have to say... this is all really easy to come up with when I'm being objective. When my friends get like that I usually make some excuse about a shower or dinner and don't check facebook for the next few days and then let someone else explain to me what exactly I did wrong through the grapevine. If I really like the friend I'll ask them directly, but then I have to deal with emotion. Which I try not to do. Hugs are about the upper limit of my sympathizing ability.

Cody, you are a genius! I am impressed to see such wisdom from one of such a tender age. Way to go!

[Guest My_Genesis]

And yes, anything you say can and will be used against you... We're time-bombs sometimes...

Exactly. Couldn't have found a better word for it. Maybe I should leave it to girls to do the talking then.

[Guest Kelly Ann]

cursing is a poor substitute for anything...LOL...even ignorance. If you can ever figure out the female mind...lemme know fella, we'll write a book and do the talk shows. Smiling like the Cheshire Cat as The World Turns, Kelly Ann

[Guest Jackson]

I have realized only having been on T for three and a half months that I have totally lost the ability to understand women. Truthfully I don't think I had it totally to begin with (once I thought I did), but I've slowly lost it ever since I decided to start this process. And I must have been fooling myself the times when I did think I understood women.

Evan is right. All you need to do is acknowledge her feelings, let her talk them out and just listen. That's it. Don't try to understand it. Not to get anyone of the female persuasion mad at me, but there doesn't seem to be much logic in female emotions sometimes.

[Guest Crossroads]

See, I feel completely left out! I was thinking about things the other, reading some posts and whatnot. And I never got to have the "living as a girl" experience. I never went to the bathroom with friends and chatted about anything. My partner, Angie, always says things like "you know how...oh no, you never did anything like that." Man, I wish I had lived that just for a little while, just to have the experience.

Angie says she cries at least 2-3 times a week. Not because she's sad, really, just because she has to. And when I ask my other girl friends...same thing. I can say something tiny, and it becomes a big deal. I just agree with her now, and that makes her happy. Her biggest complaint is that I can't stay serious. I have so much trouble having as serious conversation. Anyway, I just asked her, and she huffed a bit. But we decided it's a hormonal thing. Testosterone allows for logical clearer thinking, but sometimes can slow your emotional response. Estrogen allows for more emotional thinking and feeling, but slows logical thinking.

I can't wait to start Testosterone, but I hope I don't become a brick wall.

[Guest Evan_J]

Angie says she cries at least 2-3 times a week.

My impulse is to say "FOR WHAT ???!" but there are too many women around lol

You won't be a brick wall dude, just more clear thinking. And for the record, I would have had that response with or without the T.

[Guest My_Genesis]

I have yet to cry watching a movie. When people tell me they cried when they saw a movie, I can't get why a movie would make someone cry, I just don't feel the need to. Usually if I cry it's because I'm angry...and somehow I guess I've been conditioned to become triggered to cry from anger....and most of the time when I'm angry it was either directly or indirectly involved with trans stuff.

[Guest Cody_T]

well now that it's become about crying...

I'm weird, the only thing in movies that can make me want to cry is an old person being called a failure or realizing their life has amounted to nothing. I feel like it's the worst tragedy in the world to be at that point where you know you can't accomplish anything more and you look back and realize that you never accomplished anything. So old people really get to me like that

[Guest Crossroads]

Evan: That's what I ask! And she'll flat out say, "I don't know."

My_Genesis: I so rarely get angry either. Sometimes I'll get fussy...but that's about it. I wouldn't say I'm even tempered, I'm still a cycle girl, for now....Actually, I need to go start a post about something regarding this anyway.

Cody: Have you seen Click?

[Guest Jack Solomon]

My impulse is to say "FOR WHAT ???!" but there are too many women around lol

You won't be a brick wall dude, just more clear thinking. And for the record, I would have had that response with or without the T.

This made me laugh. Personally, I was an emotional brick wall before T in some ways, but I'm also a very animated person and empathetic in that I feel compelled to solve the person's problem for them and can recognize pain because I had it myself. Its an interesting combo.

On the subject of crying, I only start crying when I'm in absolute despair and overwhelmed by it. T really hasn't changed that. I always had major difficulty crying, and I felt that it should only be done for good reason, because of loss or suffering. This dates back to childhood, when I was known as the one who didn't cry. yes, I'm weird.

The only time I experienced tears because of a movie was when a scene resounded with my inner struggles and existential views on human existence and all that jazz. There's probably only two movies that made me experience tears.

Solomon

[Guest My_Genesis]

Evan: That's what I ask! And she'll flat out say, "I don't know."

My_Genesis: I so rarely get angry either. Sometimes I'll get fussy...but that's about it. I wouldn't say I'm even tempered, I'm still a cycle girl, for now....Actually, I need to go start a post about something regarding this anyway.

Cody: Have you seen Click?

when did any of us say any of this?

*confused*

[Guest My_Genesis]

oh i get it now! lol i thought you were quoting the three of us

oh, i get angry a lot. it's really the only emotion i can feel really strongly. lol

but i don't get angry for no reason...like i said usually it's related to trans stuff, and if it effects me indirectly i just end up being very short-tempered in general. and anything will urine me off. but other than that im also pretty much a "brick wall" and i dont get fed up over pointless things. and i bet if i wasn't struggling with this i probably wouldn't get angry so much either.

anyway, that's all i have to say.. im getting tired of talking about feelings.

[Guest CharlieRose]

I've cried at movies. Heck, I've even cried reading books. Harry Potter 5... I didn't cry when... something happened to someone... but I did when the person affected most was reacting to it. That's what gets me: reactions. If someone on screen is crying, I will, too. Oh, and also, sometimes something can be so moving, not just in inspiration, but in perfection, too, that it will make me well up a bit. It's not sad, just "OMG SO AWESOME!"

That's not to say I cry every time I watch movies. It takes a really, really, really good movie I'm really attached to, like the last Star Wars (I'm a huge Star Wars nerd) or Edward Scissorhands. Or Harry Potter. (I'm a big nerd for that, too. Watching the trailer for the sixth Harry Potter movie made me cry, too. Not welling up, outright streak-cheeked crying. I hadn't read the book in a while and I was remembering everything that happened, and... oh... It made me feel things.)

So now that I've admitted that to you all.... I sort of hope that it goes away with T, because, you know, crying makes me feel stupid, but at the same time it's a sort of appreciation, and I like appreciating things. Hopefully we'll strike a comfortable balance.

[Guest Evan_J]

You'll strike a comfortable balance Charlie. Before I started T I heard a lot of stuff that sounded like "I lost the ability to feel". But I think its just that the feelings cooled out in relation to how the person was before. Plus I really thought I was going to be "feelingless" because my ex had told me how "feelingless" and "emotionless" and "mean" and "without love" when we were together I thought "well jesus, if I'm like that now I'll be some kind of monster on T" But really, it was the relationship. The relationship was so bad that it made me those things. In truth, and without her, my "starting point" was different. So the current circumstance and what else is going on in the person's life may make the "starting point" different for them too. Do I cry during Harry Potter? No. But I didn't before. But I do have feelings. Really I'm who I was before just more likely to show it and not care. Example. I was always prone to "playing rough" like teasing and such; the kind where the person means no harm at all and probably actually thinks its "bonding"? Exactly. Or jokes that are the same way? NOW I'm more likely to actually MAKE em instead of just think about it and hold off because I'm worried so-and-so will think I'm actually teasing them. I just have to be sure the peeps in question know me well enough to know I"m PLAYING. (Note to fella's: its still like when we were kids, do NOT play like this with girls lol most of em will NOT get it and you be up the proverbial creek with no paddle.)

Anyway....

oh i get it now! lol i thought you were quoting the three of us

....don't do that dude lol you got me going too. I was like "wha??? when the heck did we say that? "LOL

anyway, that's all i have to say.. im getting tired of talking about feelings.

(cough) I actually got a case of that yesterday. Its hard when you catch a case of that and have opened your big mouth. You have to try to figure out how to wriggle out of it somehow cuz you know you said something you shouldn't have (Yes people I'm still sorry, those of you who know)

Take note fellas, Genesis' way is the best. Just say that.

[Guest Cody_T]

Cody: Have you seen Click?

haha dude, I seriously started crying in the middle of my digital photography class because of that movie. Saddest movie moment of all time, period. No exceptions

[Guest My_Genesis]

You'll strike a comfortable balance Charlie. Before I started T I heard a lot of stuff that sounded like "I lost the ability to feel". But I think its just that the feelings cooled out in relation to how the person was before. Plus I really thought I was going to be "feelingless" because my ex had told me how "feelingless" and "emotionless" and "mean" and "without love" when we were together I thought "well jesus, if I'm like that now I'll be some kind of monster on T" But really, it was the relationship. The relationship was so bad that it made me those things. In truth, and without her, my "starting point" was different. So the current circumstance and what else is going on in the person's life may make the "starting point" different for them too. Do I cry during Harry Potter? No. But I didn't before. But I do have feelings. Really I'm who I was before just more likely to show it and not care. Example. I was always prone to "playing rough" like teasing and such; the kind where the person means no harm at all and probably actually thinks its "bonding"? Exactly. Or jokes that are the same way? NOW I'm more likely to actually MAKE em instead of just think about it and hold off because I'm worried so-and-so will think I'm actually teasing them. I just have to be sure the peeps in question know me well enough to know I"m PLAYING. (Note to fella's: its still like when we were kids, do NOT play like this with girls lol most of em will NOT get it and you be up the proverbial creek with no paddle.)

Anyway....

....don't do that dude lol you got me going too. I was like "wha??? when the heck did we say that? "LOL

(cough) I actually got a case of that yesterday. Its hard when you catch a case of that and have opened your big mouth. You have to try to figure out how to wriggle out of it somehow cuz you know you said something you shouldn't have (Yes people I'm still sorry, those of you who know)

Take note fellas, Genesis' way is the best. Just say that.

well whatever i did im glad it worked. lol

sometimes i regret stuff i said that was meant to be just for fun, that people took as rude and offensive. like one night in our dorm, we were planning to have a "hall sleepover" and someone wrote on my roommate's board "hall sleepover tonight!". and i wrote under it "so don't get wasted at a frat party tonight!" hours later, like late at night, i saw that she wrote under it "what? that's kinda rude.." and the next day she was asking around trying to figure out who wrote it. So I keep telling myself I'm gonna stop doing stuff like that but it's kinda tough, so I keep inadvertently offending girls. lol. Then i feel like they'll harp on it the way my other friend does (the one who started this thread..lol), and I wonder if they judged me based on remarks I made, and still hold it against me months later. They seem to be cool with it though...my female friends in college seem to be at least a little easier than my friend over here to joke around with like that.

haha Cody when I saw Click, i saw it with my family, and my sister said there's this really sad part where her friend started crying when she saw it, and I was like "this is the sad part? THIS? it's a comedy people, get over yourselves." and it's totally fictional. sure it's sad but i just don't feel a connection to something that isn't affecting me personally and isn't even based in reality. Sometimes I connect with characters..like I really identify with John Connor in the Sarah Connor Chronicles so sometimes I get depressed/angry (those two emotions are never really separate for me ) when I watch that show and see all the crap John has to put up with.

[Guest Evan_J]

sometimes i regret stuff i said that was meant to be just for fun, that people took as rude and offensive. like one night in our dorm, we were planning to have a "hall sleepover" and someone wrote on my roommate's board "hall sleepover tonight!". and i wrote under it "so don't get wasted at a frat party tonight!" hours later, like late at night, i saw that she wrote under it "what? that's kinda rude.." and the next day she was asking around trying to figure out who wrote it. So I keep telling myself I'm gonna stop doing stuff like that

That's exactly it, that, with me, is a large portion of ftm. Not so much.....ok not exclusively about comedy.....but its having "a different brain" than females.

And btw, had it been me that saw that written, I would have been right there with you laughing.