Still Job Hunting Mid-Transition

[Guest LuceKeagan]

Not necessarily KieranD. Believe it or not there are an awful lot of adults out there who have no idea trans people exist. (Even fewer realize transition can happen both ways.) When they see a woman with a deep voice and facial hair they may just assume you have a medical condition. Which you do but just not the one they assume. In a way those of us to present male, or in your case default to male, have an easier time than our sisters because there are natal women who have to shave and have deep voices. And what I meant about paying for the drug testing wasn't that you paid for it. The company does and in my experience they only do it when they are going to hire someone. Why pay money on someone you don't intend to hire that doesn't make any sense.

As for when to tell them I usually wait until they ask or if they ask if I have anything else to add. I start by telling them I have a medical condition that does not in any way affect my work potential and then I do not say I'm transgender. I tell them I have a condition called gender dysphoria and leave it at that unless they ask me to explain. The more technical you keep it the better it is I've found.

How about your résumé? Does it have your full legal name? What kind of places are you trying to get hired at if you don't mind me asking?

[KieranD]

Not necessarily KieranD. Believe it or not there are an awful lot of adults out there who have no idea trans people exist. (Even fewer realize transition can happen both ways.) When they see a woman with a deep voice and facial hair they may just assume you have a medical condition. Which you do but just not the one they assume. In a way those of us to present male, or in your case default to male, have an easier time than our sisters because there are natal women who have to shave and have deep voices. And what I meant about paying for the drug testing wasn't that you paid for it. The company does and in my experience they only do it when they are going to hire someone. Why pay money on someone you don't intend to hire that doesn't make any sense.

As for when to tell them I usually wait until they ask or if they ask if I have anything else to add. I start by telling them I have a medical condition that does not in any way affect my work potential and then I do not say I'm transgender. I tell them I have a condition called gender dysphoria and leave it at that unless they ask me to explain. The more technical you keep it the better it is I've found.

How about your résumé? Does it have your full legal name? What kind of places are you trying to get hired at if you don't mind me asking?

My resume has my preferred name on it, but I've considered putting a first initial. Putting a full legal name seems like an overall bad idea (see previous post). I would think that in situations with drug testing, they wait for somebody to sign a form to consent to drug testing before paying for it. If I'm at the point where they say something like "we would like to hire you" or make some sort of offer that's when I'll bring things up.

[Guest LuceKeagan]

Personally I'd remove the preferred name from the resume since it may appear to HR that something is amiss. Try having all your documents match. All drug testing I've had to do prior to being hired wasn't on basis of consent, you either do and get hired once you pass, or refuse and move on to the next job prospect. So no real "consent" since it was a requirement. They normally tell you to call XXX and set an appointment up or to go to XXX after the interview because they are waiting for you.

All I can tell you about the full legal name issue is it is something that many HR workers look for so they can check up on your past work experience, because when they call previous employers very rarely do they remember old employees by social security numbers. And yes HR does actually check references (unless its fast food or other high turn over positions), they like to know how their prospective employee will fit in with their current staff. When you conceal something on a resume and/or application (such as only using an initial for a first name when they are -asking- for your -full legal name-, check the wording out on generic applications sometime.) it could be causing them to wonder what else you could be omitting. Such as....did this person really finish high school/receive their GED? Did they really do all of this work for their parents' busness like they claim? Did they really leave their previous employer as stated?

Another problem with employment could be the industry you're trying to get hired into. Try getting part time work flipping burgers or anything really that will fill the gap in your employment history but don't stop looking for something better. Keep applying to other more appealing jobs.

In closing, for anyone else with this same problem; If they want legal, give them legal and make sure all the documents you give them have the correct matching information. Otherwise it can and will lead to embarrassing foot-in-mouth syndrome later in the hiring process. Sadly no matter what our preferred name may be the -only- name that matters when it comes to jobs, and other legal situations, is the one the federal government recognizes you as. Meaning the name on your social security card. It may be a hard pill to swallow but that is the way it currently is.

[Drea]

I think there is one fair conclusion...that the approach currently being used isn't working.

I have seen trans people put themselves in near impossible situations by leaping without consideration of the consequences. I don't think this is an impossible situation, but being in transition doesn't make it easier.

I've seen lots of attempts to manipulate or game employers and potential employers into doing a desired action but such actions are so uniformly unprofessional in nature that the outcomes are just as uniformly bad.

I don't know how you are approaching the subject with the potential employer other than evidently very late in the hiring process. Just how can make a big difference. Being late in the process, as I already said can leave them feeling blindsided.

I remember someone MTF who was having problems with employment and she was constantly trying to trick a potential employer, by not disclosing until after getting a job offer, or after starting the new job and the employers let her go every time. She blamed it on name change. After name change, she blamed it on not having SRS. After working as a guy long enough to get money for surgery, after SRS she found the problem hadn't gone away. Next it was her passability and she wanted FFS. Finally, before ever having FFS, she stopped playing the games she was and got a job in her new gender role.

A name is just a name. I worked with a guy named Christie. I woman a friend worked with was named Fred. That was her legal name, wasn't a nickname. Sure these may cause question, but like the guy name Christie, it was the name he was given, but the guy knew his stuff and was hired. Maybe he was a trans guy that never changed his name? I don't know.

An application/resume is to get an interview. From the standpoint of those documents, since someone hasn't seen you, it shouldn't make a difference. At the interview is where to deal with things if it is needed. Then there isn't a need to drop the other shoe. Doing so essentially at the point where an offer is being made will resonate very negatively. Bringing it up early may lower your chances, but it has the benefit of being honest so there won't be the double whammy.

There are no guarantees ever in a job search and how one broaches the subject can make a big difference.

[Guest Alexthecat]

Put your legal name on everything. Get through the interviews and the orientation with them saying your legal name. After you are hired tell your manager that everyone calls you "new name". They shouldn't have a problem calling you that and changing your name tag.

[KieranD]

Put your legal name on everything. Get through the interviews and the orientation with them saying your legal name. After you are hired tell your manager that everyone calls you "new name". They shouldn't have a problem calling you that and changing your name tag.

Previous employers have had problems with that.

[KieranD]

I think there is one fair conclusion...that the approach currently being used isn't working.

I have seen trans people put themselves in near impossible situations by leaping without consideration of the consequences. I don't think this is an impossible situation, but being in transition doesn't make it easier.

I've seen lots of attempts to manipulate or game employers and potential employers into doing a desired action but such actions are so uniformly unprofessional in nature that the outcomes are just as uniformly bad.

I don't know how you are approaching the subject with the potential employer other than evidently very late in the hiring process. Just how can make a big difference. Being late in the process, as I already said can leave them feeling blindsided.

I remember someone MTF who was having problems with employment and she was constantly trying to trick a potential employer, by not disclosing until after getting a job offer, or after starting the new job and the employers let her go every time. She blamed it on name change. After name change, she blamed it on not having SRS. After working as a guy long enough to get money for surgery, after SRS she found the problem hadn't gone away. Next it was her passability and she wanted FFS. Finally, before ever having FFS, she stopped playing the games she was and got a job in her new gender role.

A name is just a name. I worked with a guy named Christie. I woman a friend worked with was named Fred. That was her legal name, wasn't a nickname. Sure these may cause question, but like the guy name Christie, it was the name he was given, but the guy knew his stuff and was hired. Maybe he was a trans guy that never changed his name? I don't know.

An application/resume is to get an interview. From the standpoint of those documents, since someone hasn't seen you, it shouldn't make a difference. At the interview is where to deal with things if it is needed. Then there isn't a need to drop the other shoe. Doing so essentially at the point where an offer is being made will resonate very negatively. Bringing it up early may lower your chances, but it has the benefit of being honest so there won't be the double whammy.

There are no guarantees ever in a job search and how one broaches the subject can make a big difference.

There was one situation where I used legal info (dressed as I would in "male" business attire), did the interview and said I was trans later. When I said "hey, I like being called this. Is it possible to get this name on an ID card? Can my supervisor call me this name?" I was told "we can't put your preferred name on an ID card/name badge, nobody has to call you by your preferred name or he" so I decided to decline since it didn't sound supportive at all.

So I should bring things up on the interview? Do I say it as the last thing? It seems like it might leave a bad taste for people. I know there are some things you shouldn't ask in an interview (will I get vacation pay? for example) is this something that should be asked in the "do you have anything you want to ask us" portion?

[Guest Alexthecat]

I think there is one fair conclusion...that the approach currently being used isn't working.

I have seen trans people put themselves in near impossible situations by leaping without consideration of the consequences. I don't think this is an impossible situation, but being in transition doesn't make it easier.

I've seen lots of attempts to manipulate or game employers and potential employers into doing a desired action but such actions are so uniformly unprofessional in nature that the outcomes are just as uniformly bad.

I don't know how you are approaching the subject with the potential employer other than evidently very late in the hiring process. Just how can make a big difference. Being late in the process, as I already said can leave them feeling blindsided.

I remember someone MTF who was having problems with employment and she was constantly trying to trick a potential employer, by not disclosing until after getting a job offer, or after starting the new job and the employers let her go every time. She blamed it on name change. After name change, she blamed it on not having SRS. After working as a guy long enough to get money for surgery, after SRS she found the problem hadn't gone away. Next it was her passability and she wanted FFS. Finally, before ever having FFS, she stopped playing the games she was and got a job in her new gender role.

A name is just a name. I worked with a guy named Christie. I woman a friend worked with was named Fred. That was her legal name, wasn't a nickname. Sure these may cause question, but like the guy name Christie, it was the name he was given, but the guy knew his stuff and was hired. Maybe he was a trans guy that never changed his name? I don't know.

An application/resume is to get an interview. From the standpoint of those documents, since someone hasn't seen you, it shouldn't make a difference. At the interview is where to deal with things if it is needed. Then there isn't a need to drop the other shoe. Doing so essentially at the point where an offer is being made will resonate very negatively. Bringing it up early may lower your chances, but it has the benefit of being honest so there won't be the double whammy.

There are no guarantees ever in a job search and how one broaches the subject can make a big difference.

There was one situation where I used legal info (dressed as I would in "male" business attire), did the interview and said I was trans later. When I said "hey, I like being called this. Is it possible to get this name on an ID card? Can my supervisor call me this name?" I was told "we can't put your preferred name on an ID card/name badge, nobody has to call you by your preferred name or he" so I decided to decline since it didn't sound supportive at all.

So I should bring things up on the interview? Do I say it as the last thing? It seems like it might leave a bad taste for people. I know there are some things you shouldn't ask in an interview (will I get vacation pay? for example) is this something that should be asked in the "do you have anything you want to ask us" portion?

My personal lady (person that hires people) told me the same thing. It made me quite upset. Then I talked to my manager and they didn't have a problem with using my preferred name. The person hiring you probably won't see you again if it's a big place.

[Guest LuceKeagan]

Declining a job when you need one just because it seems to not be supportive may not be a wise thing but that's your decision. Sometimes if you need a job you just have to go into the mode your birth certificate dictates and tough it out while saving. Sacrificing a job when you need one seems odd to me. Chances are your coworkers wouldn't have cared or if you live in an area (if its as bad as you're making it sound there) that is completely phobic you may need to consider your options and what is important. I know several of our brothers and sisters on here have had no choice but to go back to using the "mode" their birth certificates dictate in order to gain employment and while at work.

Is working as your default gender of male important enough that you'll turn down all jobs that seem unsupportive? If so you may consider moving states and trying to get a job in a city or state with gender identity protections. And even then this is no guarantee of employment.

How important is money to you? Do you want and need it bad enough for your future plans to do what you must (even if you hate it) in order to get it? Sure it might mean shaving your face, but hey it'll grow back. It may mean you have to use your birth name but remember once you save that money you can legally change your name and bye bye birth name. If where you want employment needs a uniform most are unisex to keep costs down.

As far as when to bring it up you kind of have to get a read on the interviewer or panel (panels are worse...more than one person, usually 3-4) if you intend to work as your default gender (I know you don't like being referred to in masculine terms so I am trying to avoid using them) and not the one your birth certificate evilly states you are to the world. Once you get a read on them normally what happens is you go through the canned interview questions and then you can make a comment on how you're sure they noticed that the name on the paperwork doesn't really match your presentation and go from there.

What work environment are you trying to get hired into? Sometimes this can make somewhat of a difference to the general sexist America.

Remember that the world is hardly perfect and sometimes (most times) we end up being the ones who must compromise when it comes to certain situations. We may not like it or enjoy it but if we really want to get out of our ruts we gotta do what we gotta do. The workforce is hard enough to get into without adding in gender so sometimes in certain areas we just have to grin and bear it until things get better. One day at a time, one foot in front of the other. Saving as much income as you possibly can. It is doable but not always 100% comfortable for us. After you get all the markers and names changed that you need/want changed then all of this will end. Or perhaps not, my dad had a horrible time getting hired when he was wrongly fired and he has stellar employment records, degrees, and tons of experience.

All of the issues you're having may have nothing to do with your gender presentation. Have you thought to have someone else look at your résumé and help you with it if needed? Maybe add more documents to support your claims of working for your parents and other odd jobs? Something as simple as signed and dated letters with clear dates on when you did the work and what the work was would work.

[KieranD]

Declining a job when you need one just because it seems to not be supportive may not be a wise thing but that's your decision. Sometimes if you need a job you just have to go into the mode your birth certificate dictates and tough it out while saving. Sacrificing a job when you need one seems odd to me. Chances are your coworkers wouldn't have cared or if you live in an area (if its as bad as you're making it sound there) that is completely phobic you may need to consider your options and what is important. I know several of our brothers and sisters on here have had no choice but to go back to using the "mode" their birth certificates dictate in order to gain employment and while at work.

Is working as your default gender of male important enough that you'll turn down all jobs that seem unsupportive? If so you may consider moving states and trying to get a job in a city or state with gender identity protections. And even then this is no guarantee of employment.

How important is money to you? Do you want and need it bad enough for your future plans to do what you must (even if you hate it) in order to get it? Sure it might mean shaving your face, but hey it'll grow back. It may mean you have to use your birth name but remember once you save that money you can legally change your name and bye bye birth name. If where you want employment needs a uniform most are unisex to keep costs down.

As far as when to bring it up you kind of have to get a read on the interviewer or panel (panels are worse...more than one person, usually 3-4) if you intend to work as your default gender (I know you don't like being referred to in masculine terms so I am trying to avoid using them) and not the one your birth certificate evilly states you are to the world. Once you get a read on them normally what happens is you go through the canned interview questions and then you can make a comment on how you're sure they noticed that the name on the paperwork doesn't really match your presentation and go from there.

What work environment are you trying to get hired into? Sometimes this can make somewhat of a difference to the general sexist America.

Remember that the world is hardly perfect and sometimes (most times) we end up being the ones who must compromise when it comes to certain situations. We may not like it or enjoy it but if we really want to get out of our ruts we gotta do what we gotta do. The workforce is hard enough to get into without adding in gender so sometimes in certain areas we just have to grin and bear it until things get better. One day at a time, one foot in front of the other. Saving as much income as you possibly can. It is doable but not always 100% comfortable for us. After you get all the markers and names changed that you need/want changed then all of this will end. Or perhaps not, my dad had a horrible time getting hired when he was wrongly fired and he has stellar employment records, degrees, and tons of experience.

All of the issues you're having may have nothing to do with your gender presentation. Have you thought to have someone else look at your résumé and help you with it if needed? Maybe add more documents to support your claims of working for your parents and other odd jobs? Something as simple as signed and dated letters with clear dates on when you did the work and what the work was would work.

It would not be a good move on the part of my mental health if I said yes to a job that said no to using the right name and pronoun. I would do it if I was paid the right amount...think of it as a person who is vegan, and is a big animal lover with the only potential work being at a factory farm for cattle or chicken or something. For me, it would ruin me as a person. Plus, shouldn't a work place be tolerable (at least)? Right now I've got a "sweet deal" in terms of having free living space and food. I know the rent at neighboring states that have trans protections is pretty expensive, and the cost of living here is also pricey.

The short term idea of "if I suffer for a short amount of time, I'll be able to achieve this goal" is not something I value. I do get a 5 o clock shadow fairly easily after shaving (and I really really hate shaving), and my voice is in the baratone-bass range.

Ideally I'd like to get into the art world. Work at a gallery doing whatever, selling "gear" or anything related to art. I know that's asking for a lot so a good paying retail job (I know, two things contradict) would do alright...maybe doing work in a warehouse or in the back (ideally working in the back). I also work well with kids, but I know dude looking person+kids=creepy, so a nanny type of full time gig would be good too. I would want to get my early rescue re-certification if I went that route.

I've never actually been fired from an employer, and nearly every job I've had lasted over a year (with the longest lasting 4 years, ending because the company filed for bankruptcy). I've had friends look at my resume, and I've had people read my cover letters and explain what should be tweeked. I also have my resume posted on a few different websites like linkedin, monster, and others that I can't think of off the top of my head. I do update them regularly. Sometimes I'll think of something I did as a part of a previous job, or a new skill I learned.

[Guest LuceKeagan]

Hm. Have you searched places that allow everyday people to post jobs? Nanny jobs may be asker to find that way. And men can be nannies also. Being a nanny is something that is slowly evolving, so long as you have your certifications for first aid and such up to date.

Warehouse jobs. Walmart, home improvement stores, car part suppliers, retail warehouses and the like.

Have you thought about trade work? Such as working in a shop that works on cars, machines parts for equipment, or fabricates kits and other parts for cars or equipment. Working in a shop in other words. Trades work can also apply to the art world. Making frames for pictures and artwork. Selling gear in the art world means you are a vendor I think and if its anything like being a vendor in the rock smithing area of art it can cost an arm and a leg to get started as a vendor.

Do you have a craft store near you? That may be another spot to try. Shipping rooms? UPS? FedEx? Those are both big companies and personally I know of three trans people local that work in the store fronts of these two shippers.