Data suggests red states watch the most trans porn

[Betty K]

I’m not sure if this belongs under politics so I apologise if I’ve posted it in the wrong place here. I’ll let the data speak for itself since I don’t want to draw any rash conclusions.
 

https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsession-with-transgender-pornography/

[Ivy]

I've seen this before, and it is a bit amusing to me.  I suppose this could be a result of "research," by upstanding citizens trying to discover and prove just how twisted and perverted we are.

It will probably slow down now since some of these states are now requiring showing ID to get access to this source of important information.

 

It is probably not that great that this is the only source that these people have for what trans folks are really like.  Yeah, of course I spend my days doing this stuff all day, every day.

[Betty K]

 

17 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I've seen this before, and it is a bit amusing to me.  I suppose this could be a result of "research," by upstanding citizens trying to discover and prove just how twisted and perverted we are.

It will probably slow down now since some of these states are now requiring showing ID to get access to this source of important information.

 

It is probably not that great that this is the only source that these people have for what trans folks are really like.  Yeah, of course I spend my days doing this stuff all day, every day.

Ha, “probably not great” is the understatement of 2024 so far! Via the dating scene, I experience first-hand what too much trans porn can do to vulnerable men’s minds. It is, without doubt, a primary cause of dehumanising tendencies. Add to that the shame that these men so often feel about their attractions and it is not hard to imagine how they might also be rapidly transphobic in their day jobs. It’s the classic patriarchal witch-hunt scenario. I’m laughing at these statistics, but it’s the blackest sort of humour. 

[VickySGV]

I find it to be a conundrum of Capitalism, the nature of the internet and the educational levels that the states actually have available.  In my civil law enforcement days, I had to examine the Porn industry from an economic POV to enforce state tax laws and you can easily guess that it is a very lucrative one.  The Porn Industry was our Press Agency for all too many years based on their exploitation of Fetishistic Cross Dressing, especially the B&D "masters and mistresses" FORCING their customers to wear the clothing of the opposite gender for sexual gratification no matter how far away from the lives of Trans people it was.  The internet as a Buyer's Market likes to put first things first, and money in the door is more important than science teaching and professional journaling of health care.  Thus, and I have tried it myself, when "Transgender" is input to search engines, what comes up is the most money making search results on top.  If the person is ignorant of the science they can get, they never get below the lurid and expensive search results that are the worst possible press for us.  Followed by the panicked thought that "parents want their kid to be a porn star!!" because that is how they become rich!!  Salaries for actors in Porn are OK, but not what it may seem for the prices the Porn products demand.  I had to work with folks "in the trade" and learned their true economic situation, although some did enjoy doing the work and got by well enough.   

 

In the words of P.T. Barnum, "There is a Sucker born every minute" along with a bunch who are just plain crackers.

[Betty K]

9 minutes ago, VickySGV said:

FORCING their customers to wear the clothing of the opposite gender for sexual gratification no matter how far away from the lives of Trans people it was.

This is one of the most bizarre and shame-ridden aspects of trans porn, and it seems so telling. Another thing I encounter all too frequently is men who, it eventually transpires, want nothing more than to BE me, not be with me. Trans author Torrey Peters calls these men “crypto trans”, and in her — and my — estimation they are some of the most creepy guys out there.

 

And yes, I have heard that, especially since the advent of the internet, acting in porn is not the lucrative job it’s perceived to be. 

[KathyLauren]

I am not at all surprised.  Most people know less than nothing about trans people, and what they think they know about us was obtained mostly from porn.  Which is why almost everything they believe is fictitious.

[Betty K]

9 minutes ago, KathyLauren said:

I am not at all surprised.  Most people know less than nothing about trans people, and what they think they know about us was obtained mostly from porn.  Which is why almost everything they believe is fictitious.

I agree it is not at all surprising. Distressing, but not surprising.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

Its the age-old tale of the cookie jar.  Ban something or call it taboo, and people will be interested in it.  Even if they wouldn't be interested otherwise.  Its why Prohibition failed during the Depression Era. Its why states are legalizing marijuana one by one.  Its why gun sales hit record highs every time a Democrat becomes President.Time and time again people who have the attitude of "there oughtta be a law" fail to notice this major lesson of history - banning something often makes it grow stronger. 

 

As for the porn itself - I have questions:  If trans folks are a tiny minority of the population, how is there so much trans porn?  When it is so freely available on the web, how are these folks actually paid anything?  And since the search language (let alone the act itself) is degrading, how do the people involved feel about what they are doing? 

[Betty K]

13 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

If trans folks are a tiny minority of the population, how is there so much trans porn?

Trans women are highly sought after in porn worldwide, not just the red states. Search terms involving trans women are among the highest porn-related searches, period. Obviously, regardless of how few of us there are, we exercise an outsize hold over men’s imaginations. Similarly there are very few women with enormous breast implants in the wider population, but in porn they are hugely prevalent. Representation in porn is skewed by viewer’s tastes. Demographics in porn do not reflect wider demographics.

 

As to how the actors in porn feel about what they are doing (and this question could be asked of everyone involved, not just trans people), I dare say some are ok with it and some aren’t. I have encountered trans women on dating apps who seem to enjoy being objectified and degraded, or at least seem to invite it in their profiles and ways of relating. I think they are not helping men to stop seeing us as fetish objects, but at the end of the day it’s the men who are making the mistake of generalising based on insufficient experience. It’s just unfortunate that, since there are so few of us, those few trans women who are happy to be objectified are often the only trans women that men have ever been exposed to. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Betty K]

It’s also worth noting that, historically, sex work was one of the few professions trans women were able to access, and it was certainly the easiest to access. I don’t know what employment access is like for trans people these days, but I’m sure it is still problematic. In some cases, sex work may be a necessity, regardless of whether it’s demeaning or not.

[VickySGV]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

If trans folks are a tiny minority of the population, how is there so much trans porn?

Acting is acting, and many "Trans" characters in the adult entertainment are played by non-Trans actors.  Plus that there is the point that these media items are made pretty fast and furious, and are never feature length films with a lot of production elements.  The same actors, identically the same will make nearly one video per week whereas the mainline actors and stars will get two or three per year max.  The term "Production" really means something to them.  There is also very little novelty in any of the videos or photo-layouts because there are formula props and story lines even different actors using the same story line, one week as the Cis person and the next week with a wig or simply new hair color.  As I said above this is a BIG money making industry for the Production labels.  As long as some guy gets their male appendage engorged with blood and setting off nerve response it is a $$$$ success.   Put another way, so much of it is made because it sells.

 

Trans per se is given the story line of Fetishistic Cross Dressing types in those productions, and that condition is described by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the APAs as a mental abnormality (illness) but as you will note, the staff here does NOT allow posting of Fetishist CDing here, but it is a condition that sells.

[emeraldmountain2]

Repressive societies encourage sublimation.

[Ivy]

People need to understand that being transgender involves a lot more than body parts.

 

I have some thoughts/experience related to this that I don't feel comfortable bringing up in this thread.

 

 

[KatieSC]

In trying to find the humor in all of the madness, I wonder if we could list transgender porn actress on our income tax return, and then deduct our costs for any breast reconstruction/augmentation, and perhaps cosmetic procedures...

 

 

[VickySGV]

35 minutes ago, KatieSC said:

In trying to find the humor in all of the madness, I wonder if we could list transgender porn actress on our income tax return, and then deduct our costs for any breast reconstruction/augmentation, and perhaps cosmetic procedures...

 

 

Retired Tax Agent here!! 

 

Wonder no more.  While not necessarily Trans Porn Actress, (which has been done) simply as an entertainer, you cannot deduct the breast enhancement as a medical deduction, but you can (and some do) list the implants as a depreciable , necessary, business assets using a 5 or 10 years depreciation rate.  (Ie; 20% or 10% of the cost per  year.)  It was a U.S. Tax Court decision back in the 1970"s and the decision was made for a Go Go dancer who was famous back then. (Commr. vs Doda)    This is also available on your State Income Taxes as well which when you think about it is a bit of a slap with a dead fish on those states. How is that for a good morning chuckle?

 

A later Tax Court decision (O'donabhaine)  DID give us the medical deduction for GCS surgery.  Also applicable to State Income Taxes.

[emeraldmountain2]

45 minutes ago, VickySGV said:

depreciable , necessary, business assets using a 5 or 10 years depreciation rate. 

I am quite amused.

[Ivy]

30 minutes ago, emeraldmountain2 said:

1 hour ago, VickySGV said:

depreciable , necessary, business assets using a 5 or 10 years depreciation rate. 

I am quite amused.

I love it.

[KatieSC]

Now we know the rest of the story! Thank you Vicky! 

[Betty K]

6 hours ago, VickySGV said:

 

Retired Tax Agent here!! 

 

Wonder no more.  While not necessarily Trans Porn Actress, (which has been done) simply as an entertainer, you cannot deduct the breast enhancement as a medical deduction, but you can (and some do) list the implants as a depreciable , necessary, business assets using a 5 or 10 years depreciation rate.  (Ie; 20% or 10% of the cost per  year.)  It was a U.S. Tax Court decision back in the 1970"s and the decision was made for a Go Go dancer who was famous back then. (Commr. vs Doda)    This is also available on your State Income Taxes as well which when you think about it is a bit of a slap with a dead fish on those states. How is that for a good morning chuckle?

 

A later Tax Court decision (O'donabhaine)  DID give us the medical deduction for GCS surgery.  Also applicable to State Income Taxes.

Ha! You’re giving me ideas. 

[Betty K]

10 hours ago, Ivy said:

I have some thoughts/experience related to this that I don't feel comfortable bringing up in this thread.

I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to, of course, but I do think discussions like this risk stigmatising people who watch porn or are involved with it. I’ll admit I watch trans porn sometimes, and I don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with it. Nor is it always about the “transvestic fetishism” narrative, though that does exist of course. Sometimes it just seems to be depictions of trans women enjoying having sex with men, and I can relate to that.

 

W/r/t “transvestic fetishism” in general, I don’t even like to use that term, and I refuse to use it without scare quotes. As I said above, I have encountered some men(?) who seem to fetishise the idea of themselves as women, and to have buried whatever true desire they have to embody that gender identity so deep down inside them that it can only come out in unhealthy ways. At its worst, I find that creepy and, yes, a bit pathological. But I also think that many of us went through phases a bit like that, and that the most unhealthy of those men may just be cases of arrested development owing to severe self repression. I tend to think “transvestic fetishism”, to the extent that it exists at all, may be a result of a sick society. 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

10 hours ago, VickySGV said:

list the implants as a depreciable , necessary, business assets using a 5 or 10 years depreciation rate.

 

Oh my.  The things that we get into with taxes.  I've jokingly wondered if perhaps my husband could get a tax break related to conservation..... for providing safe and appropriate habitat for the endangered "Southern Pocket Fox." 😄

 

2 hours ago, Betty K said:

I don’t know exactly what you’re referring to, of course, but I do think discussions like this risk stigmatising people who watch porn or are involved with it. I’ll admit I watch trans porn sometimes, and I don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with it.

 

I wonder about this.  I certainly don't agree with the idea of devaluing or stigmatizing people who work in porn.  But I believe that porn itself is kind of demeaning to everybody involved.  Same with strip clubs or prostitution.  To an extent, doesn't it turn people into a commodity?  Is working in porn a healthy work environment?  And isn't objectification a big issue with these Red State porn search results?  I don't see how presenting people (especially a vulnerable minority) as objects can be anything but harmful. 

 

That said, I don't support making porn (or even strip clubs or prostitution) illegal, since I think the abuse of government power and banning of life choices is even more harmful. 

 

 

[VickySGV]

@Betty K The condition does exist, look for the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual (DSM) of the American Psychiatric and Psychological Associations, as well as the World Health Organization's publications on the subject.  In the terms of those Professional Journals and References it applies to behavior that is classified as a Process Addiction, and like any addiction it grows worse, and is not harmless.  I had an employee I supervised and was part of review boards for other employees for whom it had progressed to the addiction level that left them unable to do their jobs since their addictions led them to use work as well as home computers to access and to lie about where they had been on time they claimed to be working.  I know many more details since my job required me to know about the businesses that catered to their addictions for official reasons.  I am a recovering Substance Abuse Addict and know the problems of recovery from addictions in general.  All of the employees had to be terminated because of the security risks they presented.  I also had people in my Medical Recovery program who had been addicted to the other as well as unsafe and promiscuous sex addictions. 

 

We have gone way off the topic here and I realize it is partly my fault, but for all the harmless parts of Porn, there are the very dark elements that affect a minority of users, but when it does, it is tragic.  I have several good friends who do work in the Adult Entertainment field and they are just that, good wonderful people friends. 

[Betty K]

@VickySGV, I know the condition exists officially, but I’m afraid I don’t put much faith in the DSM as a source of wisdom w/r/t gender, given how recently it claimed that transness itself was pathological. I get that crossdressing when associated with sexual fantasies can be compulsive and harmful to everyday functioning, but I suspect it is usually, if not always, harmful because of the social stigma surrounding it, which causes such extreme shame and self-suppression. I also think the term itself is stigmatising and I question who is qualified to tell the difference between a true sufferer of this pathology and a trans woman who is stuck and unable to accept her gender identity. It seems like a very grey area to me.

 

I don’t see what the problem is with going off-topic. I like wide-ranging discussions.
 

I am certainly not trying to defend the porn industry. I’m sure it is exploitative and harmful in many ways. I just wanted to make clear that there is porn in which trans women are simply depicted as trans women, not fetishists. And there are porn performers who are real trans women too.

[Betty K]

50 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

  To an extent, doesn't it turn people into a commodity?  Is working in porn a healthy work environment? 

I think you could say the same about many industries. The sex industry may well be one of the worst, but there are many others that are pretty awful. Also, my point was about the workers in porn, not the people exploiting them and creating the conditions in which they work.

 

One thing I definitely don’t agree with is that porn is demeaning to everyone involved. That is a very broad generalisation to make. I‘m willing to believe it might be true for a large percentage of porn, but not for all of it. I don’t know any porn actors but I do know sex workers, and many of them claim that the work in itself is fulfilling, but that it is a poorly regulated industry that needs repairing. 
 

As to objectification, it is a problem, yes, and I complained about it myself above. But I’ll admit, along with many other women (trans and cis) that, to me, an aspect of objectification can be healthy in sexual relations. I like being treated like a sex object, to a point. The problem only arises when that is all a man can see in me, when he refuses to treat me as a human being.

I think you’re right that many men watch porn and presume that, since some women in porn seem happy to be objectified, every woman will be happy to be objectified. They do this even more with trans women, because very few of them have ever known any trans women before, whereas all of them have known cis women. But again, that is a problem stemming from male ignorance. 

 

I sometimes wish certain trans women would show more self respect, but those are generally women on dating apps, not porn actresses. And at the end of the day, it is not their responsibility to represent the entire trans community.

 

 

 

 

[Betty K]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

And isn't objectification a big issue with these Red State porn search results?

The issue, to me, is the hypocrisy. It also seems very likely that the effort by many Republicans to so savagely suppress trans people stems from their own shame at being attracted to them. It’s the classic old Christian trope whereby attractive women are seen as harlots and temptresses simply because certain men find them attractive.