Transphobia is making me question everything

[Mirrabooka]

3 hours ago, Tilly said:

Just want to say what great posts there are on this topic. Loving it, thank you. Really helpful.

 

xx

I'll second that.

 

I have nothing constructive to add to it at this stage if at all, but I am also finding it useful, even for me.

[Mason26]

@gemmalouiseIt's not so much the chore thing for me, although I do get pissed when I'm expected to do one kind of chore while my brother gets to do another. But I really hate that chores are gendered, like is it feminine to have a home? XD My dad never helped my mom with chores, even when my siblings and I were babies. I don't want to be that guy.

If I get dysphoria from doing something feminine, it's usually from say watching a "girly" movie like you said. It's funny that you specifically brought up Bridget Jones because that's a movie I haven't seen but my mom and sisters love. I don't think it's my kind of movie, but it's hard to figure out why exactly I have no interest in it. It's gonna take some time to figure out, but I've definitely gotten better with it. Oddly enough, I was most sexist when I still saw myself as a girl. Thinking that femininity put women down and -crap- like that.

[Mason26]

@Birdie Oh, I know. I think it mostly comes from the dysphoria of being in the closet. Like I feel like every little thing I do has to be masculine otherwise people will hold it against me. Like I might come out one day and someone will say "You can't be trans, you watched (insert random "chick flick"). I guess that worry isn't completetly unfounded because I've had my girly childhood interests used against me. But what's the point of being trans at all if I'm just gonna shove myself in another box? I greatly admire men who go against the grain. I'm working on becoming one of them.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

3 hours ago, Mason26 said:

@gemmalouiseIt's But I really hate that chores are gendered, like is it feminine to have a home? XD My dad never helped my mom with chores, even when my siblings and I were babies. I don't want to be that guy.

 

I don't understand gendered choores either.  Like, guys eat, so they need to know how to cook.  And do laundry. And sew a bit.  Girls need to know how to change oil, rotate tires, and use a screwdriver.  I didn't get those opportunities when I was young, as my father would chase me away and tell me to go be with my mother.  

 

In my family,  we have quite a bit of division of labor that might not happen in smaller families.  But there's a lot of cross-training for the kids.  I've known some guys who come home from work and relax while others take care of cooking and dishes.  I've never seen my husband do that.  He grew up in a family where everyone helped with everything.  He can cook just as well as my female partners, and usually takes care of Saturday dinner and Sunday breakfast.  While he has a lot of maintenance chores and community responsibilities, if he has time he helps with cleanup and taking care of the young kids.  It isn't uncommon for him to get up at night and take care of babies, even though he leaves for work very early.   

 

[Birdie]

4 hours ago, Mason26 said:

@Birdie Oh, I know. I think it mostly comes from the dysphoria of being in the closet. Like I feel like every little thing I do has to be masculine otherwise people will hold it against me. Like I might come out one day and someone will say "You can't be trans, you watched (insert random "chick flick"). I guess that worry isn't completetly unfounded because I've had my girly childhood interests used against me. But what's the point of being trans at all if I'm just gonna shove myself in another box? I greatly admire men who go against the grain. I'm working on becoming one of them.

Boxes are made for Amazon deliveries, not people. 

 

I learned not to try and box myself in. It's the first step in acceptance. 😉

[RaineOnYourParade]

5 hours ago, Mason26 said:

@Birdie Oh, I know. I think it mostly comes from the dysphoria of being in the closet. Like I feel like every little thing I do has to be masculine otherwise people will hold it against me. Like I might come out one day and someone will say "You can't be trans, you watched (insert random "chick flick"). I guess that worry isn't completetly unfounded because I've had my girly childhood interests used against me. But what's the point of being trans at all if I'm just gonna shove myself in another box? I greatly admire men who go against the grain. I'm working on becoming one of them.

Ah yes, toxic masculinity. Every man's worst friend. I'm glad to know a lot of feminine dudes so it hasn't hit me as hard, but still. You can like "girly" things and still be super manly, but y'know, your brain doesn't care right?

 

Tbh I like a lot of girly things when I was younger, but not all of them were "real" likes. I'd just go along with the flow of what other girls liked since I was afraid of standing out. Basically, I was getting the opposite that you don't hear as much about, toxic femininity. Things are ridiculously gendered in this world. You be you, dude

[Mason26]

12 hours ago, Birdie said:

@Mason26, two years ago I was wearing a mullet hairstyle, baggy shirts, and bib overalls to hide my rather large breasts.

I never talked about my love for sewing and designing clothes, or my knitting and cooking. 

 

Those things were "taboo" for someone in "boy-mode". 

 

I spent 45 years of some of the unhappiest years of my life living in "acceptable behavior" for AMAB.

 

Going 45 years braless, and gravity was not kind to me either. 🙄

 

I figured out what I liked, so who I am. I have gone with that as my model. 

 

I will dress up in a cute summer dress if I feel dysphoria coming on, maybe do my makeup. 

Just something to remind me I'm a woman inside. 

 

Besides that, I'm just me everyday. If the world around me doesn't like it, the heck with them. 😉

I'm sorry you spent so much time trying to fit in. But you survived all those years so you can be happier than ever now. I've only known I was trans for a tenth of that time. I don't know how long it'll take me to come out, but I don't want to waste any more time in or out of the closet. At the moment, I'm just taking small steps.

[Mason26]

@awkward-yet-sweetExactly! It drives me crazy when I see for example people on TV celebrating Thanksgiving. The women are cooking all day and the men are just on their asses watching football. My mom is thankfully better about chore splitting than my dad, so while I missed out on learning some of the outdoor stuff, my brother helps with cooking and laundry. My dad is kind of a dick though, so I'd be better off learning that stuff myself, haha. Also I come from a big family so I think I know what you mean about the division of labor. It's easier to assign each person one job than have everyone just take care of their own stuff.

[RaineOnYourParade]

1 hour ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

I don't understand gendered choores either.  Like, guys eat, so they need to know how to cook.  And do laundry. And sew a bit.

 

"Oh, you like to cook? You must be a GiRl-"

Ignore the fact most people in the culinary world are actually men.

[Mason26]

@Birdie I'm still working on not boxing myself in. I think my box has gotten a lot bigger over time, though.

[Mason26]

22 minutes ago, RaineOnYourParade said:

Ah yes, toxic masculinity. Every man's worst friend. I'm glad to know a lot of feminine dudes so it hasn't hit me as hard, but still. You can like "girly" things and still be super manly, but y'know, your brain doesn't care right?

 

Tbh I like a lot of girly things when I was younger, but not all of them were "real" likes. I'd just go along with the flow of what other girls liked since I was afraid of standing out. Basically, I was getting the opposite that you don't hear as much about, toxic femininity. Things are ridiculously gendered in this world. You be you, dude

I like how you phrased that about toxic masculinity. I think one of the hardest things about it is that you tend to get rewarded for it. Sure, you're harming yourself on the inside, but you find ways to be okay with that if the world sees you as a man in exchange. I got a lot of that from people I'm close to, unfortunately. But I also know a lot of guys who aren't embarrassed at all about their more "feminine" interests.

 

I was the same way as a kid. I played with Barbies and Barbie-like toys, I wore dresses, and my favorite color was pink. But I'm not sure how much of that was just because "I'm a girl, and girls like etc." Basically, I was just a kid, and I was scared to break those norms. That's not to say I didn't have more "masculine" interests too, like video games, action movies, playing in the dirt, etc. and that's not to say I didn't enjoy the feminine aspects of my childhood as well. But looking back, I wonder how much of it was just what I was supposed to like. I might never know. I'm sure lots of cis kids experience that, too.

 

Thanks for your response! I appreciate it.

[Mason26]

18 minutes ago, RaineOnYourParade said:

"Oh, you like to cook? You must be a GiRl-"

Ignore the fact most people in the culinary world are actually men.

I just don't get it...

[RaineOnYourParade]

@Mason26 That was a lot haha.

I too still have more "feminine" interests, but I've realized that some of said interests were just me trying to blend in. Whenever I'd get called "boyish" by kids, I'd feel the need to pretend to be offended ("iM nOt A bOy" *cough cough yes you are cough*), and trans, cis, whatever, you don't need to like "masculine" junk to be a dude. I know plenty of girls who would rather dig around in the dirt and hunt and fish and whatever than go shopping, and quite a few dudes who would much rather watch Legally Blonde than The Matrix.

[Davie]

The world changes. When I was 4 and 5 years old my father got "Rapid onset gender phobia" and forced me give up all my feminine traits: girls clothes, playing with dolls, dancing, etc. It was like a psychological amputation. Yesterday I went to a picnic with 12 other trans and non-binary folks—everyone free to be. It was euphoric. I felt totally myself, They did, too. I felt so happy I cried with joy to remember it when I got home. I treasure the best things in life. Great friends and family most of all. There is always hope. —Davie

[RaineOnYourParade]

8 minutes ago, Davie said:

Yesterday I went to a picnic with 12 other trans and non-binary folks—everyone free to be. It was euphoric. I felt totally myself, They did, too. I felt so happy I cried with joy to remember it when I got home. I treasure the best things in life. Great friends and family most of all. There is always hope. —Davie

Sounds amazing ❤️

[Mason26]

@RaineOnYourParadeSorry, got a bit carried away. XD

I did the same thing as a kid. And also as you said got into that "toxic femininity" where I'd make fun of boys for just... being boys? I dunno. It turned out I was projecting, haha. And you're right. I don't know why I feel the need to like certain things to be a man when I wouldn't hold anyone else to that.

[RaineOnYourParade]

Just now, Mason26 said:

@RaineOnYourParadeSorry, got a bit carried away. XD

I did the same thing as a kid. And also as you said got into that "toxic femininity" where I'd make fun of boys for just... being boys? I dunno. It turned out I was projecting, haha. And you're right. I don't know why I feel the need to like certain things to be a man when I wouldn't hold anyone else to that.

I think the best thing sometimes is to look at yourself in the third person before going and judging yourself. Go, "If I had a friend come to me with this exact issue, how would I react to them?" That's what helps me, at least. 

[Mason26]

@DavieI'm sorry to hear that. I don't know what I would've done if that had happened to me with masculinity. It's hard to remember that while things aren't the best for trans people right now, it's still a lot better than it was in the past. That picnic sounds awesome, I'm glad you got a chance to experience it.

[Mason26]

@RaineOnYourParadeThat's definitely something I've been doing a lot more lately. And reminding myself that toxic masculinity doesn't just hurt me, but other people too.

[RaineOnYourParade]

@Mason26I'm sorry but this is just kinda making me think of the Gravity Falls episode that attacks toxic masculinity. The one with the "Manotaurs". XD

 

Anyways, yes. Chances are, if something's hurting you, it's probably hurting at least one other person in the process. *Bonks you on head* No toxic masculine thoughts!

[Mason26]

@RaineOnYourParade I loved that episode! This conversation made me think of it, too. As a kid, Dipper was one of my many "I want to be that guy" guys, even though he was a cartoon, haha.

[RaineOnYourParade]

4 hours ago, Mason26 said:

@RaineOnYourParade I loved that episode! This conversation made me think of it, too. As a kid, Dipper was one of my many "I want to be that guy" guys, even though he was a cartoon, haha.

Bill Cipher was my role model- I'm a messed up human now for a reason lol

[Avra]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:03 PM, Mason26 said:

@AvraHey, I haven't seen any other Canadians on here, nice!

 

You're absolutely right. Thanks for sharing a bit of what it's like for you, it's easy to forget I'm not the only one sometimes. It is hard to find supportive people, especially when it's hard to find just people in general (I'm in that "How do I make friends as an adult?" phase). For the most part I'm just living the best I can and taking baby steps until I'm ready.

 

I wear mens clothes, have short hair, and I'm 5'8. I've had a few people call me sir, but most don't gender me at all. I'm not sure if people think I'm a butch lesbian, a trans man, or a teenage boy, but I've never had a problem with strangers, and most people are pretty nice. One time I was looking for jeans and I asked the woman working there where the ones on sale were, and she told me where I could find the men's and the women's without any judgement, so I thought that was nice, haha.

 

And you're definitely right on things not being as simple as male and female. I just need a reminder sometimes. All these comments have been really helpful. Also I don't mind the details, I find the science behind this stuff very interesting as well! I'm always wondering what makes me tick. XD

 

Thanks for your response! And I'm sorry about you losing your job. I'm having a hard time finding a job for similar reasons, it's tough out there. Hope you're doing well.

I hear you, making friends is hard especially if you're already an introvert like me. Finding friends you can truly trust is even harder. I'm down to one, maybe 2 friends like that (and none of them are family).

 

 That's really cool! You're ahead of me if you're shopping in store for clothes. Amazon is my best friend for that right now hehe. 👀

 

Here's one science video that I found particularly interesting on the topic if you're interested:

https://youtu.be/kT0HJkr1jj4?si=6GD9vMFdb2S3pIDx

 

Also this isn't really science but if you want to hear a linguist's perspective on pronouns and neo pronouns, I also found this a good watch/listen:

https://youtu.be/Kh22m1QG6i4?si=DTkMYUfDNOdm0xLx

Don't let the title scare you - his conclusion, which I tend to agree with, is that kindness and respect are paramount.

[Avra]

On 8/26/2023 at 11:55 AM, Birdie said:

I get out as myself everyday. I unfortunately must follow a "dress your gender" policy at the day-centre I attend, but I'm finding ways to be myself there anyways. 💖💃💖

What they mean is "dress the way society thinks you should based on what they think your gender is". Clothing has no inherent gender other than what we have decided and that varies enormously by culture too. I got into a heated debate about this with my brother (more about the roles of women and men) until I finally just dropped it because talking to a brick wall is exhausting lol. Fabric is fabric, you should be allowed to wear what you're most comfortable in. Dress codes, when required, should be unisex as Mason pointed out.

[Tilly]

12 hours ago, Birdie said:

Boxes are made for Amazon deliveries, not people. 

 

 

Fantastic quote!!!

 

I'm going to use that