Transphobia is making me question everything

[Mason26]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:25 AM, gemmalouise said:

How about "transist"?  As in "stop being transist"  I feel folk would intuitively know what that means without having to learn it first.

I think I would assume that would mean "hates trans people" as well, but based on some other replies here, maybe it isn't completely intuitive? I guess it's hard to say. Like I would think "Okay, racist means hatred based on race, sexist means hatred based on sex/gender. So transist should mean hatred based on trans people."

[Mason26]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:55 PM, Avra said:

I usually don't let it get to me nowadays. I'm not too good to be looked at and if I can make someone smile (even at my own expense), that's all in a days work I suppose. But actually interacting with people, that's a higher difficulty mode ya know. For an introvert at least. 😅

Yeah, talking with people is tough sometimes. I'm not sure if I'm an introvert or an extrovert. I do enjoy talking to people and I'm not shy, but I'm definitely awkward. XD I guess it's just like the Sims, socializing is a skill that can only be worked on by talking to other people.

[Mason26]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:03 PM, gemmalouise said:

Good arguments against transist there, I'll take it back.

I thought it was a good suggestion! I think it's just very hard to change language. My guess is we'll continue to use transphobia for a while, just because it's what most people know.

[Mason26]

9 hours ago, Tilly said:

Yes. I really like this forum. Inputs are so thoughtful and helpful.

 

I guess I'll use transphobia too but sometimes the all-English 'transhatred' and 'transhater' because in certain circumstances it just seems to fit the context better.

 

(Interesting though because everyone knows what racism means)

Yeah, this is a great forum! I very much prefer it over Reddit, haha.

I think I'll stick to transphobia too in the meantime, but I agree trans hater is a good alternative. It's probably what I'd use in non-trans spaces.

[Vidanjali]

2 hours ago, Mason26 said:

@TillyThat's the word I was thinking of, transmisia! Thanks, Vidanjali. I do think this is a good choice. The only problem is I don't think most people would know what the word means at first glance. And as you said, hatred is ultimately rooted in fear for the most part. But I do think there are better words to describe what's going on, and transmisia is a good choice. I also wish GSRM would catch on instead of LGBT. If you don't know, it stands for gender, sexual, and romantic minorities, so it covers everything. And then we don't have to deal with people complaining about all the letters we're adding on, haha.

 

I dig GSRM. Similarly, some college GSA clubs have changed the meaning of GSA from "gay-straight alliance" to "gender sexuality alliance" which is obviously much more inclusive, although not inclusive of romantic diversity like GSRM. 

[Mason26]

4 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

 

I dig GSRM. Similarly, some college GSA clubs have changed the meaning of GSA from "gay-straight alliance" to "gender sexuality alliance" which is obviously much more inclusive, although not inclusive of romantic diversity like GSRM. 

When you said GSA, when I was trying to figure it out I actually thought it was gender sexuality alliance. Then I remembered the more obvious, haha. That is a much better term for it, but yeah, it is missing romantic.

[Vidanjali]

4 hours ago, Mason26 said:

When you said GSA, when I was trying to figure it out I actually thought it was gender sexuality alliance. Then I remembered the more obvious, haha. That is a much better term for it, but yeah, it is missing romantic.

 

Moreover, I suppose "sexual" (as in the S of GSRM) vs "sexuality" is also inclusive of intersex folks as the former can refer to both attraction and anatomy, whereas the latter seems to imply only attraction. The distinction is subtle, but meaningful. 

[gemmalouise]

17 hours ago, Mason26 said:

Looking back on it, there's some weird stuff in those books. Like "Hermione doesn't like that Hogwarts is run by slaves and she wants to do something about it, she's crazy, right?" Also I had no idea about goblins being anti-semitic until fairly recently (uninformed much? haha), but holy crap. And let's not forget Dumbledore is gay, despite there being no hint whatsoever in the books (or even really the Fantastic Beasts movies. I haven't seen the most recent one, but I heard it didn't do much in that regard, either).

For someone so scared of who is in the ladies loos, she wrote Harry and Ron spending an awful lot of time in there.  Maybe this was the start of her psychological issues.  I hope she finds the right treatment to get over her unfounded phobia.

[Mason26]

11 hours ago, Vidanjali said:

 

Moreover, I suppose "sexual" (as in the S of GSRM) vs "sexuality" is also inclusive of intersex folks as the former can refer to both attraction and anatomy, whereas the latter seems to imply only attraction. The distinction is subtle, but meaningful. 

Good point! It can refer to both sex and sexuality. Another reason to love the term, haha.

[Mason26]

5 hours ago, gemmalouise said:

For someone so scared of who is in the ladies loos, she wrote Harry and Ron spending an awful lot of time in there.  Maybe this was the start of her psychological issues.  I hope she finds the right treatment to get over her unfounded phobia.

I've never thought about that before, interesting.

The thing about bathroom debates is that the situation isn't as simple as "don't let trans women in and cis women will be safe." Like they assume that there's some guard there who decides who can go to the bathroom who would stop any man who tried to harm someone, but would just let a "man dressed like a woman" do whatever they want. Also, why aren't more people concerned about kids using the same bathrooms as adults? Would a man not pose more of a threat to a little boy than a trans woman to a cis woman? And don't people realize how many non-conforming cis women bathroom bills would affect? It just doesn't make any sense.

[Avra]

On 9/2/2023 at 11:16 AM, Mason26 said:

Yeah, talking with people is tough sometimes. I'm not sure if I'm an introvert or an extrovert. I do enjoy talking to people and I'm not shy, but I'm definitely awkward. XD I guess it's just like the Sims, socializing is a skill that can only be worked on by talking to other people.

Haha that's true. I do kinda treat life like a video game so I like the analogy. The only thing most games don't cover is that you lose skills you don't keep working on.

[Avra]

3 hours ago, Mason26 said:

I've never thought about that before, interesting.

The thing about bathroom debates is that the situation isn't as simple as "don't let trans women in and cis women will be safe." Like they assume that there's some guard there who decides who can go to the bathroom who would stop any man who tried to harm someone, but would just let a "man dressed like a woman" do whatever they want. Also, why aren't more people concerned about kids using the same bathrooms as adults? Would a man not pose more of a threat to a little boy than a trans woman to a cis woman? And don't people realize how many non-conforming cis women bathroom bills would affect? It just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah the whole bathroom thing never made sense to me. Like why do we have gendered bathrooms in the first place? I think we should have unisex public bathrooms with public common spaces for washing hands and such (with cameras if safety is a concern) and then individual private or semi private stalls for people to do their business. Why must we complicate it so? Like, 99.9% of people aren't going into a bathroom to molest people, we just wanna pee/poop and go about our day. Right? 💁‍♀️

[Ivy]

8 hours ago, Mason26 said:

"man dressed like a woman" do whatever they want.

A predatory cis man does not have to dress like a woman to lurk and molest women & girls.  There's a reason women often go together, and it doesn't have much to do with trans women.

[Mason26]

5 hours ago, Avra said:

Haha that's true. I do kinda treat life like a video game so I like the analogy. The only thing most games don't cover is that you lose skills you don't keep working on.

I try to do that too, makes things more fun (and I think it makes me more productive too, haha). Also I'm having a hard time remembering if Sims games did have you lose skills you didn't continue to work on? Oddly enough, I know My Sims Party on the Wii would have you become fatigued in a skill after using it.

[Mason26]

5 hours ago, Avra said:

Yeah the whole bathroom thing never made sense to me. Like why do we have gendered bathrooms in the first place? I think we should have unisex public bathrooms with public common spaces for washing hands and such (with cameras if safety is a concern) and then individual private or semi private stalls for people to do their business. Why must we complicate it so? Like, 99.9% of people aren't going into a bathroom to molest people, we just wanna pee/poop and go about our day. Right? 💁‍♀️

I definitely agree. Wouldn't it be best for everyone if the toilets were just divided up into separate rooms or at least more private stalls and you didn't have to worry about which bathroom to use? And yeah, I don't see why the hand washing areas have to be separate. I'm pre-everything, but I pass as male sometimes. So while I still use the women's bathrooms, I'm scared someone will be angry I'm in there. I know that type of thing happens to butch women a lot. I wish there were more unisex bathrooms where I shop.

[Mason26]

1 hour ago, Ivy said:

A predatory cis man does not have to dress like a woman to lurk and molest women & girls.  There's a reason women often go together, and it doesn't have much to do with trans women.

Exactly. I've heard the argument "But it makes it easier for them to get in," but does it? I've never been to a bathroom in my life where a man couldn't easily go in.

[Avra]

3 hours ago, Mason26 said:

I definitely agree. Wouldn't it be best for everyone if the toilets were just divided up into separate rooms or at least more private stalls and you didn't have to worry about which bathroom to use? And yeah, I don't see why the hand washing areas have to be separate. I'm pre-everything, but I pass as male sometimes. So while I still use the women's bathrooms, I'm scared someone will be angry I'm in there. I know that type of thing happens to butch women a lot. I wish there were more unisex bathrooms where I shop.

Exactly. I think the reason we don't have individual bathrooms (like you have at home) for high traffic areas is it wouldn't make sense financially or space wise to have enough bathrooms to support that many people. But there's no reason we couldn't just have all the stalls for toilets and urinals in one place and a central handwashing station. I also see no reason for not getting rid of the stupid cracks in the stalls, but that's another issue. 😅

 

3 hours ago, Mason26 said:

I wish there were more unisex bathrooms where I shop.

I was out with some people a few years ago where they had some public unisex washrooms and the people I was with made fun of their existence. Their ignorance made me sad.

[Mason26]

29 minutes ago, Avra said:

Exactly. I think the reason we don't have individual bathrooms (like you have at home) for high traffic areas is it wouldn't make sense financially or space wise to have enough bathrooms to support that many people. But there's no reason we couldn't just have all the stalls for toilets and urinals in one place and a central handwashing station. I also see no reason for not getting rid of the stupid cracks in the stalls, but that's another issue. 😅

That is true. But yeah, there are ways to make the stalls safer and more private. Seriously, what is with those cracks? XD And why does there have to be such a big gap on the bottom?

Also, I could be dead wrong on this, but I wonder if in some ways gender neutral washrooms could be safer than segregating them? Like would a predator be less likely to try something if there were a bunch of men around?

29 minutes ago, Avra said:

 

I was out with some people a few years ago where they had some public unisex washrooms and the people I was with made fun of their existence. Their ignorance made me sad.

I went to a place with one recently. My dad was weirded out, but everyone else seemed fine with it. I felt so comfortable there. I can understand how it would be hard for people to get used to, but change is happening quicker than it feels sometimes.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

5 minutes ago, Mason26 said:

That is true. But yeah, there are ways to make the stalls safer and more private. Seriously, what is with those cracks? XD And why does there have to be such a big gap on the bottom?

 

This.  I really feel like public restrooms are not private in any way.  Or safe.  I've gotten to the point where I don't use them unless somebody else is going with me.  If I'm with girls, then I use the women's room.  I've I'm with my husband, I go to the men's.  Unless there's a unisex option, which I prefer, but usually those aren't available.  If I had to work at a job or be out in public a lot, I would most likely avoid eating or drinking at all in order to avoid the bathrooms. 

 

And none of this even gets around to mentioning the serious cleanliness problems with most public bathrooms.  Even though I don't have the equipment, I've learned how to pee standing up just because of the gross factor.  If there's no Lysol, I wouldn't sit down if I was PAID to do so.  🤮

[Birdie]

2 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Unless there's a unisex option, which I prefer

Yeah, they don't have enough of those available, and they are always busy. 

 

I have a custom built wheelchair that doesn't really fit into a stall, and in my case a urinal has always been "out of the question" (I have to sit to pee).

 

I might wait up to 30min. for the family restrooms.  

 

Saturday I waited 35min for the one restroom available wondering if something had happened and if I should call for help. Finally the door opened and a young couple in their teens exited. 

 

I'm not worried about "passing" in the women's room, just maneuvering my chair in a position to transfer. 

 

I find I'm not welcome "at all" in the men's room. 

 

 

 

[awkward-yet-sweet]

5 minutes ago, Birdie said:

Saturday I waited 35min for the one restroom available wondering if something had happened and if I should call for help. Finally the door opened and a young couple in their teens exited.

 

Well, I think we know what they were probably up to...🙄😏😆 

 

I've frequently noticed that handicap-accessible restrooms tend to be unisex, and also labeled as "family" restrooms with a baby-changing table.  I guess they make it an all-purpose location, but when there's only one it tends to be occupied. 

 

 

[AllieJ]

42 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

  If I had to work at a job or be out in public a lot, I would most likely avoid eating or drinking at all in order to avoid the bathrooms. 

  🤮

I used to avoid eating and drinking to also avoid the need to go to public restrooms, but in recent years it led me to being diagnosed with early stage kidney failure. It's just not worth needing dialysis or a transplant to avoid public restrooms, so drink the recommended amounts, and go where and when you need to.

 

Hugs,

 

Allie

[Ivy]

10 hours ago, Mason26 said:

Seriously, what is with those cracks? XD And why does there have to be such a big gap on the bottom?

I was visiting in Europe (pre-trans) and as I remember the "stalls" had actual doors and walls.  I was surprised.

 

9 hours ago, AllieJ said:

I used to avoid eating and drinking to also avoid the need to go to public restrooms, but in recent years it led me to being diagnosed with early stage kidney failure.

I keep a "pee jar" in my car, for times when I'm traveling, and don't like the looks of a place.  It's kinda a plan B thing.

[Birdie]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:09 PM, Mason26 said:

I've never been to a bathroom in my life where a man couldn't easily go in.

I think from watching news stories on bathroom molestations, it seems the predators wait for a child to be left "unattended", and not always in a restroom.

I remember watching video footage on the news, and a family busy with other things didn't notice their toddler wandered off. She was quickly swiped up in the "lobby" and taken to the restroom. 

 

Unattended, or unprotected is what puts someone at risk. Not strict bathroom separation.

[Birdie]

20 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

If there's no Lysol, I wouldn't sit down if I was PAID to do so. 

I keep sanitary wipes in my backpack just for that purpose. 😉