Transphobia is making me question everything

[Avra]

On 9/3/2023 at 9:00 PM, Mason26 said:

Also, I could be dead wrong on this, but I wonder if in some ways gender neutral washrooms could be safer than segregating them? Like would a predator be less likely to try something if there were a bunch of men around?

That is actually a really good point! Because a real man, at least my definition of a real man, would not stand by and let that happen!

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by VickySGV
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[Avra]

11 hours ago, Ivy said:

I was visiting in Europe (pre-trans) and as I remember the "stalls" had actual doors and walls.  I was surprised.

Europe seems to get a lot of things right, and a lot of countries like Iceland and Sweden for example are more LGBT friendly too.

[awkward-yet-sweet]

1 hour ago, Birdie said:

Unattended, or unprotected is what puts someone at risk. Not strict bathroom separation.

 

Exactly.  At least for the younger kids.  I don't get how parents can just let their kids wander off in a store.  Or let them run around and bother strangers.  But I see it all the time.  My partners keep their kids close during the rare times when they're out in public.  GF is especially attentive, and hyper-aggressive toward anybody within about 6ft of her kids.  As if the screeching of her offspring wasn't enough to keep everybody away...🙄  I love them, but they are so much like her its nuts. 

 

6 minutes ago, Avra said:

That is actually a really good point! Because a real man, at least my definition of a real man, would not stand my and let that happen!

 

Certainly in my area, I think that would be the case.  The guy who assaulted me last year was denied bail by the court - for his own safety.  The judge knew that people around here weren't going to put up with that sort of behavior.  One of the biggest codes of conduct here is the general principle of protecting your neighbors.  Lose your wallet at the gas station?  Somebody is probably going to call you and let you know...and all the money will still be in it. 

 

 

 

 

[Avra]

23 minutes ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

Certainly in my area, I think that would be the case.  The guy who assaulted me last year was denied bail by the court - for his own safety.  The judge knew that people around here weren't going to put up with that sort of behavior.  One of the biggest codes of conduct here is the general principle of protecting your neighbors.  Lose your wallet at the gas station?  Somebody is probably going to call you and let you know...and all the money will still be in it.

That is really respectable! Sorry that happened to you though. 😞

[Mason26]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:09 PM, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

This.  I really feel like public restrooms are not private in any way.  Or safe.  I've gotten to the point where I don't use them unless somebody else is going with me.  If I'm with girls, then I use the women's room.  I've I'm with my husband, I go to the men's.  Unless there's a unisex option, which I prefer, but usually those aren't available.  If I had to work at a job or be out in public a lot, I would most likely avoid eating or drinking at all in order to avoid the bathrooms. 

 

And none of this even gets around to mentioning the serious cleanliness problems with most public bathrooms.  Even though I don't have the equipment, I've learned how to pee standing up just because of the gross factor.  If there's no Lysol, I wouldn't sit down if I was PAID to do so.  🤮

That's one of my greatest fears of getting an in-person job. I have no idea which restroom I should use. One of the many reasons I want to transition before switching away from work at home jobs.

As @AllieJsaid, avoiding eating and drinking definitely isn't the way to go. I found I'd always get exhausted when I went out, sometimes for a couple days after. I realized it was because I didn't drink/eat enough (not even because of the washroom thing, it was usually just inconvenient/I'd forget to eat) while I was out.

And ugh, washrooms are disgusting. I just put toilet paper on the seat because my legs get too weak when I squat, haha.

[Mason26]

On 9/4/2023 at 9:14 AM, Ivy said:

I was visiting in Europe (pre-trans) and as I remember the "stalls" had actual doors and walls.  I was surprised.

That would be wonderful. It sucks that everyone is so cheap in North America that we can't have privacy.

On 9/4/2023 at 9:14 AM, Ivy said:

I keep a "pee jar" in my car, for times when I'm traveling, and don't like the looks of a place.  It's kinda a plan B thing.

Good idea!

[Mason26]

15 hours ago, Birdie said:

I think from watching news stories on bathroom molestations, it seems the predators wait for a child to be left "unattended", and not always in a restroom.

I remember watching video footage on the news, and a family busy with other things didn't notice their toddler wandered off. She was quickly swiped up in the "lobby" and taken to the restroom. 

 

Unattended, or unprotected is what puts someone at risk. Not strict bathroom separation.

Oh god, that's horrible. It's true though, things like that can happen anywhere. And don't forget, most of the time (I want to say it's like 90%, but I could be wrong) sexual assault is done by someone you know.

[Avra]

1 minute ago, Mason26 said:

Oh god, that's horrible. It's true though, things like that can happen anywhere. And don't forget, most of the time (I want to say it's like 90%, but I could be wrong) sexual assault is done by someone you know.

It's definitely a high percentage, which is deeply troubling. Hard to say an exact number but I would say it's definitely more often than not. Most kids are, or should be taught at a very young age to not talk to strangers.

[Mason26]

14 hours ago, Avra said:

That is actually a really good point! Because a real man, at least my definition of a real man, would not stand my and let that happen!

I once saw (I think on Quora? Not usually the best place for information, but rarely you'll get something good like this) someone say that (very much paraphrasing) "Men don't hurt women. Males do, but to be a man, you have to be a decent person."

[Mason26]

14 hours ago, Avra said:

Europe seems to get a lot of things right, and a lot of countries like Iceland and Sweden for example are more LGBT friendly too.

I want to say Canada is like 2nd place for trans safe countries, again might be wrong, haha. I'm definitely grateful to live here. But we still have a long way to go for just general safety, and bathrooms are an obvious place to start.

[gemmalouise]

I think I may be captain oblivious here, but I can't ever recall being scared in the public bathrooms.  Well maybe back in school but that's a whole different topic.  Should I be?  Am I seriously in danger without knowing it?

[Mason26]

14 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

Exactly.  At least for the younger kids.  I don't get how parents can just let their kids wander off in a store.  Or let them run around and bother strangers.  But I see it all the time.  My partners keep their kids close during the rare times when they're out in public.  GF is especially attentive, and hyper-aggressive toward anybody within about 6ft of her kids.  As if the screeching of her offspring wasn't enough to keep everybody away...🙄  I love them, but they are so much like her its nuts. 

My parents did that for me and my siblings (they might've been a little too overprotective, especially once I hit a certain age, but nothing bad ever happened to us so they were doing something right at least, haha) and if I ever have kids, I would be the same. It's vital to teach kids how to stay safe from a very young age.

14 hours ago, awkward-yet-sweet said:

 

Certainly in my area, I think that would be the case.  The guy who assaulted me last year was denied bail by the court - for his own safety.  The judge knew that people around here weren't going to put up with that sort of behavior.  One of the biggest codes of conduct here is the general principle of protecting your neighbors.  Lose your wallet at the gas station?  Somebody is probably going to call you and let you know...and all the money will still be in it. 

 

 

 

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Even if it was for the wrong reason, it's good that you got justice. And you know you have your community behind your back. It sounds like a good place to live.

[Mason26]

8 minutes ago, Avra said:

It's definitely a high percentage, which is deeply troubling. Hard to say an exact number but I would say it's definitely more often than not. Most kids are, or should be taught at a very young age to not talk to strangers.

I know my siblings and I were taught that. I think there should definitely be more focus on staying safe around people kids know, too though. Like how to identify inappropriate behavior from a teacher, uncle, etc. 

[Avra]

7 minutes ago, Mason26 said:

I want to say Canada is like 2nd place for trans safe countries, again might be wrong, haha. I'm definitely grateful to live here. But we still have a long way to go for just general safety, and bathrooms are an obvious place to start.

It's definitely up there but having been to Europe, and from what I've heard from others, I think parts of Europe are definitely ahead of us in many ways, probably because Europe is much much older. It can of course vary drastically by region. Canada, as a country is barely out of diapers, proverbially speaking. 😅 It is a nice place though for sure, very grateful to be where I am.

[Avra]

5 minutes ago, Mason26 said:

I know my siblings and I were taught that. I think there should definitely be more focus on staying safe around people kids know, too though. Like how to identify inappropriate behavior from a teacher, uncle, etc. 

I agree.

[Mason26]

7 minutes ago, gemmalouise said:

I think I may be captain oblivious here, but I can't ever recall being scared in the public bathrooms.  Well maybe back in school but that's a whole different topic.  Should I be?  Am I seriously in danger without knowing it?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've heard of things happening in public bathrooms, but it's not something I've ever experienced personally, or anyone I know (as far as I know, anyways). I do have some fear over something happening, especially if there's a particularly creepy washroom (sometimes they're set up kind of weird, put in isolated spots, etc.) but I've never experienced any actual threats.

My biggest fear in public washrooms is because I present male but I'm pre everything FTM, that I'll get called out for using the women's washrooms. I'd probably switch to the mens, but I generally go out with people I'm not out to, and I'm not sure if I pass enough anyways.

So to answer your question, I think it's always good to be alert, but fear every time you go to the bathroom isn't healthy. Plenty of people use public bathrooms every day without ever being in danger. Is it less safe than other areas? Sure. But it's more dangerous to hold it for too long regularly, or to avoid drinking when you're out.

[Mason26]

4 minutes ago, Avra said:

It's definitely up there but having been to Europe, and from what I've heard from others, I think parts of Europe are definitely ahead of us in many ways, probably because Europe is much much older. It can of course vary drastically by region. Canada, as a country is barely out of diapers, proverbially speaking. 😅 It is a nice place though for sure, very grateful to be where I am.

Yeah, I guess it depends on the region. Like Britain isn't doing well for trans rights right now, from what I've heard. Poland is even worse, and everyone knows Russia is... not fun. But some European countries are the best places for LGBT people to live.

Also, the way I think of it is maybe Canada being a younger country actually makes it easier to change? Like for example, the older a person gets, they tend to become more set in their ways. While younger people can be more open to new things. Obviously this is a big generalization. But maybe because Canada is still figuring stuff out, we're less likely to be stuck in the past. But yeah, I'm definitely happy to be here. My family hypothetically talks about moving to Texas or Florida, and I know that'll never happen (I've lived in the same place my whole life, haha) but at the same time, why? XD

[Avra]

4 minutes ago, Mason26 said:

Yeah, I guess it depends on the region. Like Britain isn't doing well for trans rights right now, from what I've heard. Poland is even worse, and everyone knows Russia is... not fun. But some European countries are the best places for LGBT people to live.

Also, the way I think of it is maybe Canada being a younger country actually makes it easier to change? Like for example, the older a person gets, they tend to become more set in their ways. While younger people can be more open to new things. Obviously this is a big generalization. But maybe because Canada is still figuring stuff out, we're less likely to be stuck in the past. But yeah, I'm definitely happy to be here. My family hypothetically talks about moving to Texas or Florida, and I know that'll never happen (I've lived in the same place my whole life, haha) but at the same time, why? XD

Yeah different countries are definitely different. I was think mainly of Scandinavian countries tbh.

 

That is one way to look at it, I don't disagree. I was just kinda thinking of some things like transit systems which isn't exactly related but an example of European countries getting things right. In my experience, here it usually kinda sucks. My thought is Europe has had more time to figure out what works and apply it. In Germany I heard they have a skytrain that has been in use for something like 40 years because it works that well, while in my home town we only just got a ground rail transit system like a couple years ago, and it doesn't even work that well. Gets stuck constantly during the winter and always holds up traffic. I've had bad experiences both as a driver and as a transit user. In Sweden, they have entire lanes for buses specifically, which, when you think of it, just makes sense - buses don't hold up traffic when they stop, and traffic doesn't hold up buses when it's rush hour - win win. Alas, I digress... 😅

[Avra]

25 minutes ago, Mason26 said:

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've heard of things happening in public bathrooms, but it's not something I've ever experienced personally, or anyone I know (as far as I know, anyways). I do have some fear over something happening, especially if there's a particularly creepy washroom (sometimes they're set up kind of weird, put in isolated spots, etc.) but I've never experienced any actual threats.

My biggest fear in public washrooms is because I present male but I'm pre everything FTM, that I'll get called out for using the women's washrooms. I'd probably switch to the mens, but I generally go out with people I'm not out to, and I'm not sure if I pass enough anyways.

So to answer your question, I think it's always good to be alert, but fear every time you go to the bathroom isn't healthy. Plenty of people use public bathrooms every day without ever being in danger. Is it less safe than other areas? Sure. But it's more dangerous to hold it for too long regularly, or to avoid drinking when you're out.

Well said. Where I live I've never thought about it being a problem. But it will depend on location and how you're presenting and whether you're alone or not. If your spidey senses are tingling or it looks sketchy, be smart and go elsewhere. In the developed world generally you should be ok though. Horror movies tend to exaggerate, hehe.

[Mason26]

23 hours ago, Avra said:

Yeah different countries are definitely different. I was think mainly of Scandinavian countries tbh.

 

That is one way to look at it, I don't disagree. I was just kinda thinking of some things like transit systems which isn't exactly related but an example of European countries getting things right. In my experience, here it usually kinda sucks. My thought is Europe has had more time to figure out what works and apply it. In Germany I heard they have a skytrain that has been in use for something like 40 years because it works that well, while in my home town we only just got a ground rail transit system like a couple years ago, and it doesn't even work that well. Gets stuck constantly during the winter and always holds up traffic. I've had bad experiences both as a driver and as a transit user. In Sweden, they have entire lanes for buses specifically, which, when you think of it, just makes sense - buses don't hold up traffic when they stop, and traffic doesn't hold up buses when it's rush hour - win win. Alas, I digress... 😅

You're definitely right. There's a lot of things I would like about living in Europe. Also, I'm not sure about how it is there, and it varies from country to country, region to region, but I wonder if the transportation is safer as well? Where I live, I always hear stories about horrible things happening on buses/bus stops. It's probably blown out of proportion to an extent, because thousands of people use the bus every day, but it's still worrying.

[Mason26]

23 hours ago, Avra said:

Well said. Where I live I've never thought about it being a problem. But it will depend on location and how you're presenting and whether you're alone or not. If your spidey senses are tingling or it looks sketchy, be smart and go elsewhere. In the developed world generally you should be ok though. Horror movies tend to exaggerate, hehe.

Exactly. There's nothing wrong with precautions, but there are plenty of more dangerous situations I can think of. If bathrooms were that dangerous, people would, I don't know, wear diapers instead of using them? Also I appreciate the Spider-Man reference, haha.

[Avra]

1 hour ago, Mason26 said:

You're definitely right. There's a lot of things I would like about living in Europe. Also, I'm not sure about how it is there, and it varies from country to country, region to region, but I wonder if the transportation is safer as well? Where I live, I always hear stories about horrible things happening on buses/bus stops. It's probably blown out of proportion to an extent, because thousands of people use the bus every day, but it's still worrying.

Those are stories I would expect to hear from third world countries where transit is definitely risky. Never heard of that in Canada though I'm sure it happens. I have heard of people in Scandinavia, even females going on long trips by themselves, camping out and traveling without really having to worry about personal safety. Of course you should always be smart, but I think overall those countries are definitely safer than most.

[Mason26]

3 hours ago, Avra said:

Those are stories I would expect to hear from third world countries where transit is definitely risky. Never heard of that in Canada though I'm sure it happens. I have heard of people in Scandinavia, even females going on long trips by themselves, camping out and traveling without really having to worry about personal safety. Of course you should always be smart, but I think overall those countries are definitely safer than most.

Like I said, I think it's generally safe. But I've heard some pretty crazy news stories about stuff that happens on buses here. Which is really a shame because buses are better for the environment. I would use them all the time if I lived in the city, as long as I felt safe on them.

[Avra]

5 minutes ago, Mason26 said:

Like I said, I think it's generally safe. But I've heard some pretty crazy news stories about stuff that happens on buses here. Which is really a shame because buses are better for the environment. I would use them all the time if I lived in the city, as long as I felt safe on them.

Yeah it depends on the city for sure. I have a friend who drives for the transit system here and he made it pretty clear that there's cameras everywhere - inside and out. For better or worse, but if something sketchy happened it would be captured. The system here is also extremely LGBT friendly though that doesn't mean other riders are, hehe.

 

Reminds me of something that happened to me as a kid though. I was riding on the bus and this guy was flashing a bottle of alcohol he had on him (which I think was not allowed on transit here). Anyways I just glanced at him and as he got off he was like "Don't ever do that in Toronto", whatever that was supposed to mean. I didn't even say anything, just looked at him because he was drawing attention. 😅🤷‍♀️

[Mason26]

19 minutes ago, Avra said:

Yeah it depends on the city for sure. I have a friend who drives for the transit system here and he made it pretty clear that there's cameras everywhere - inside and out. For better or worse, but if something sketchy happened it would be captured. The system here is also extremely LGBT friendly though that doesn't mean other riders are, hehe.

I wonder if it's the same where I live. I've only been on a bus once or twice and that was a while back, so it's hard to say without trying it out myself.

19 minutes ago, Avra said:

 

Reminds me of something that happened to me as a kid though. I was riding on the bus and this guy was flashing a bottle of alcohol he had on him (which I think was not allowed on transit here). Anyways I just glanced at him and as he got off he was like "Don't ever do that in Toronto", whatever that was supposed to mean. I didn't even say anything, just looked at him because he was drawing attention. 😅🤷‍♀️

That's... weird. The guy was probably drunk and didn't know what he was talking about, haha.